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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: R T Cosic on Sunday 05 March 17 17:19 GMT (UK)
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I have been generating my family tree using the various on-line resources for some time and have finally run out of 'easy pickings' and need to get down to some real research. I'm seeking advice and pointers as to where to go next and how to get there.
My g-g-g grandparents are the William and Jane. William was a coal-miner c.1809-c.1864. His place of birth is reported as Norham or Faden (?). Jane's birthplace is fairly consistently reported as Windmill Cottages, Shoreswood Colliery c. 1813. Rather conveniently after William's death she was shunted around her offspring throughout subsequent Census until her death in 1893 in North Seaton. Most of her children ended up in North Seaton and I can see they lived close to each other, which neatly ties them all together. Useful with a Northumberland family called Hall!
I am searching for their marriage, then anything to take me back one more generation. I plan a visit to Woodhorn, and I am trying to plan ahead to get the most out of this visit. Although I'm an Ashington lad and my maternal grandfather spent his entire working life at Woodhorn, I now live in Pembrokeshire, so a trip to Woodhorn is not to be undertaken lightly!
What to look for at Woodhorn? How to ask for it?
I have gone through all the scanned Norham parish registers on FamilySearch without success - but could have missed it, although I created a 'tree' on-line to log all the Hall BDMs at St Cuthbert in the relevant period, so was reasonably thorough. Ancroft scanned register doesn't cover the likely marriage period.
William & Jane's offspring's baptisms are mostly found on FamilySearch. None have images available, so I could check primary sources, but I fail to see how baptism records would help me find marriages records:
John baptised 22 May 1842 St Anne, Ancroft - my g-g grandfather
Isabella 5 May 1833 United Presbyterian, Spittal
Richard 30 March 1835 United Presbyterian, Spittal
Margaret 25 Feb 1841 St Anne, Ancroft
William born 1844, no baptism record found
Robert 23 Oct 1846 St Cuthbert, Norham
George 25 Nov 1849 St Cuthbert, Norham - he emigrated to Pennsylvania in 1884
As at least two were baptised at a Presbyterian chapel the CoE 'baptisms' may just be registrations of baptisms elsewhere, so their marriage may be Presbyterian as well?
Pointers anyone?
William 'may' have been the one baptised Belford 16 July 1809. This is based only on linking William with George and Richard Hall mining coal at Shoreswood or Norham in 1841/51/61 Census back to a common set of parents. If that is correct it doesn't get me far as the mother is a Robson!
I have higher hopes of a Patterson, but no idea where to look. FreeReg throws up 2 of them baptised at Berwick's Golden Square Scotch (sic) Church United Secession Presbyterian in 1814 and 1818, so that might prove just as tricky.
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat, their is this potential marriage:-
William Hall to Jane PATTISON 15th September 1832 St Michael, Bishopwearmouth
Keyboard86
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Sunderland? County Durham?
I know Norham was still in the Palatinate of the Bishop of Durham then, but I think that location is far too improbable.
But, I had forgotten about that oddity and now need to repeat the on-line searches including Durham not Northumberland.
What was the source by the way - FamilySearch?
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I've looked at the Northumberland Marriage index 1813-1837 and there is no marriage for a William Hall to Jane Patterson (or Pattison). Is there any chance that they were Presbyterian? There is a strong Presbyterian influence up in the borders and, at that time, they were inclined to pop over into Scotland to marry rather than marry in the C of E church in England (which was the law). Sometimes they married in Scotland itself, others chose to marry on the border - like Gretna Green but on the eastern side of the country.
Christine
PS Welcome from me, too :)
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When you come to Woodhorn you will need ID to sign up for a readers card.
You'll find advice on their website.
C
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The BTs for Ancroft are online although as you say, this doesn't help with the marriage:
John: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jn4/
Margaret: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jn5/
I have also checked the images for the ones at the United Presbyterian, Spittal, as follows:
Hall - Isabella daughter of William Hall and of Jane his wife of Shoreswood Colliery Norham Parish was born 3th (sic) May 1833
Hall - Richard son of William Hall and of Jane his wife of Felkington Engine was born March 30th 1835. Norham Parish.
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Is there any chance that they were Presbyterian?
"As at least two were baptised at a Presbyterian chapel the CoE 'baptisms' may just be registrations of baptisms elsewhere, so their marriage may be Presbyterian as well?"
There is a high probability of that. I have no experience of tracking these border marriages and that is an area I was seeking help and advice.
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The BTs for Ancroft are online although as you say, this doesn't help with the marriage
Thanks for wading through all those scans for me. I have Isabella as 5th May from the existing transcriptions.
Border dwelling Halls in that time period may be simply impossible!
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If you,re stuck with cross Borders details Scotland has there own government web page
ScotlandsPeople its free to use and Berwick archives will lookup information for you
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Hello RT Cosic
We share the same g-g-g-Grandfather, with my g-g-Grandfather William Hall.
I am curious to know whether you made any progress beyond William and Jane and indeed if you confirmed that Jane was a Patterson.
Thank you
Richard
PS I am new to the forum so I will need to make a few more posts before being eligible to PM you.
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I think I have found their marriage ...
Lamberton Toll June 15 [1839]. Wm. Hall to Jane Peterson [sic] both of Lowick. Witnesses William White, Catrine Gutrie [Irregular Border Marriages, Vol 1, Marriages at Lamberton Toll 1833-1849 (c) NDFHS 1995]
These are transcriptions from Henry Collins' registers for Lamberton which you will find copies of at both Berwick and Woodhorn, I'm sure (but please check!).
Also, I am sure that there is some connection between these Pattersons and my own lines, several of which shuttle regularly between Norham/Shoreswood, Ancroft and Lowick. I have a tentative theory about Jane Patterson's family and her connection to my own that I would be embarrassed to front up before the experts here ... do either of you, RT Cosic and Menager, have a DNA test with Ancestry? It would be interesting to see if we connect that way and would embolden me with said theory :-)
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there are a lot of Halls and Patterson headstones in Norham churchyard
Norham covered Berwick ancroft shoredean Ladykirk and several other villages for Births marriages deaths There were 2 other churches as well as St Cuthberts in Norham
coal miners and farm hands didnt stay long in one place that,s why children in 1 family can be born in several villages
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Thank you for the information on the marriage and the churchyards in and around Norham. I regret that I have not done a DNA test. Lamberton Toll would make sense since it is not that far from Norham and Shoreswood Colliery.
William Hall and successive two generations were coalminers and they certainly did move from colliery to colliery.
I intend to do some further research into the collieries they worked, from a social history perspective, to learn of the landowners, mining companies and of course the miners.
All quite fascinating...