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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: splottboy1 on Monday 27 February 17 06:47 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone,
I have been trying to find the wedding of John Peckham Maryand Mary Angel, and eventually found it on a site called subscription website, after failing in both Ancestry and Family Search.
The website wanted money for more details, but I was surprised that I got nowhere with Family Search as they have bee fantastic recently.
What I found was the marriage in 1722 of John Peckham to Mary Angel, but of course I was hoping to find a bit more than that as I am unsure of when John was born, and I know Mary was born in Lacock 1704?, so parents information would have been great. They married fcommoneor love only as John was a commoner [my GGGGrandfather] and she came from a wealthy family [and was renounced for any money]. Hope there is someone that can help.
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Per the Knightroots transcription she was Mary Angell "of Sopley"
http://www.knightroots.co.uk/transcriptions/Parishes_E/Ellingham/Marriages/marriages.htm
Someone else was researching this back in 2003: http://newsfeed.rootsweb.com/th/read/HAMPSHIRE/2003-09/1064085048
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thanks
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What I found was the marriage in 1722 of John Peckham to Mary Angel, but of course I was hoping to find a bit more than that as I am unsure of when John was born, and I know Mary was born in Lacock 1704?, so parents information would have been great. They married fcommoneor love only as John was a commoner [my GGGGrandfather] and she came from a wealthy family [and was renounced for any money]. Hope there is someone that can help.
I'm just wondering how you "know" that Mary Angel came from Lacock, as there isn't an obvious connection between there and the Ringwood area. Your suggestion implies that she married at about age 18, which should have needed parental consent, though of course if she eloped she might also have pretended to be older than she was. To demonstrate that she was part of the Lacock family but had been cut off by them, you'd really need to find a will or other evidence to say that they knew she was the wife of John Peckham (but weren't giving her anything).
If you're sure the Ellingham marriage is the correct one, before jumping to conclusions about Lacock it might be worth checking other possibilities nearer at hand. For example, from FamilySearch, a Mary Angell was baptised in Ringwood in 1701. (This is from a film of someone's typed transcript, so obviously it would be important to check the original register.) If nothing else, it would be wise to look into this Mary to see if you can exclude her from the 1722 marriage.
FamilySearch has lots of other possibilities too, but that one seemed to be the closest - and of course, it isn't a complete record of all births/baptisms. Bear in mind too that for some reason, even if you don't specify exact matches only, FamilySearch seems to treat Angel and Angell as separate names, so searching for one won't find the other.
Arthur
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Hi Splottboy,
I have moved your post to Hampshire as it had been posted in the wrong place on RootsChat, if this is not the correct county please let me know and I can move it to the correct place.
Regards
Sarah
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Ref: Reply #3
Many thanks Arthur, I will do some further investigation as you suggest.
Some of this information was originally given to me by Betty Sunley and Tom Millar, over 20 years ago. There was a huge fortune involved with all of this and it appeared on a British Television show "Find a Fortune" many years go. The Angell family owned a huge property that went right through Islington London.
Thanks for your help.
Colin
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Reply #4
Many thanks for doing that for me...
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Ref: Reply #3
Hi Arthur,
I read your message late last night here in Australia, and after a good sleep am digesting it further. After looking at my written record, which was a copy of a another written record 20 years ago, I see that I had Mary Angel recorded as"John Peckham bc 1702 married 1722 to Mary Angel of Sopley" ... so no date of birth for Mary, but of Sopley, so I really must check out that other Mary ???
Thanks again.
perhaps when I heard of that Fortune I got carried away ??
Colin
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perhaps when I heard of that Fortune I got carried away ??
Colin
Easily done ;) Anyway, happy to help.
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ref: Reply #8
Hi Arthur, and thanks for helping me back on the right path.
I have re-looked at everything with the new Mary Angell, but still cant find a marriage.
So recapping.
Marriage of:
John Peckham 1702-1777 to Mary Angel 1702-1737
Father of John is Richard 1669 Ringwood
Siblings:
Betty, Jone 1699, William 1699, Richard 1700, Mary 1702, Henry 1703, Joseph 1703, Christen 1707.
Children:
Hannah 1741, John 1724-1791, Mary Angel Peckham 1729, Henry 1740-181, Philip 1743-1829, Ann 1750-1841.
I suppose its possible that they didnt get married ?
I was also trying to get an idea of exactly where in Ringwood on a census that Richard of John lived.
For your interest many years ago I found an Aaron Peckham convict sent to Australia on the second fleet after stealing a horse, and there's losts of infornation in Australia on convicts, and people in the main are proud to have a convict as an ancestor. I happened to find Aaron today, father of a John Peckham and am wondering if its the John bp 1673 Ringwood and brother of Richard bp 1669 Ringwood in my family tree ?
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Before going any further, I ought to say that I'm not at all familiar with Hampshire records. The only reason I got into this thread was because it started off on a different board, which I happen to subscribe to, so I can only offer fairly general observations, and I hope there may be some Hampshire experts who can give better advice.
ref: Reply #8
Hi Arthur, and thanks for helping me back on the right path.
I have re-looked at everything with the new Mary Angell, but still cant find a marriage.
So recapping.
Marriage of:
John Peckham 1702-1777 to Mary Angel 1702-1737
If you can't find any other marriage for the Mary Angell bapt. Ringwood 1701 (see reply #3), that makes her quite a strong candidate for the 1722 marriage in Ellingham. To confirm that you'll need to look for things like wills from the Ringwood Angell family which might refer to her in her married name, or memorials - is she buried with other members of her birth family? Was the marriage by banns or licence? If by licence, the paperwork might give her father's name.
Father of John is Richard 1669 Ringwood
Siblings:
Betty, Jone 1699, William 1699, Richard 1700, Mary 1702, Henry 1703, Joseph 1703, Christen 1707.
Children:
Hannah 1741, John 1724-1791, Mary Angel Peckham 1729, Henry 1740-181, Philip 1743-1829, Ann 1750-1841.
OK, John Peckham might be fairly easy to trace, but if all those children are his, it may be a bit of a stretch to attribute them all to Mary Angell. First, they span 26 years, and second, you gave her death as 1737 :o (Or is that a typo?)
I suppose its possible that they didnt get married ?
Not sure what you mean by this, given that we started with the marriage, which you thought was correct.
I was also trying to get an idea of exactly where in Ringwood on a census that Richard of John lived.
For your interest many years ago I found an Aaron Peckham convict sent to Australia on the second fleet after stealing a horse, and there's losts of infornation in Australia on convicts, and people in the main are proud to have a convict as an ancestor. I happened to find Aaron today, father of a John Peckham and am wondering if its the John bp 1673 Ringwood and brother of Richard bp 1669 Ringwood in my family tree?
This is too early for censuses. The earliest one to give useful information is 1841, though there are a few survivals from 1821 and 1831 which give heads and sizes of households. For earlier periods there are sometimes things like churchwardens' accounts and manor records, but this varies greatly from one place to another. This is really the sort of question you need a local expert for.
It might just be a coincidence about finding another Aaron Peckham, but it could be worth investigating. I don't have convict connections myself, but I've occasionally seen some of the papers, and I think they normally give details of the next of kin in England. That really needs to be your starting point, to see where the trail goes back to.
As well as that, one approach that I've found helpful is to get every possible parish register entry for a given surname (plus variants) in the parish(es) of interest, plus other evidence such as wills and memorial inscriptions, and try to sort them into families. That way you can see better who belongs where, who lived where, and so on, which helps to avoid making connections where they shouldn't be.
Arthur
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Thanks, death as 1737 is a typo, as its 1779.
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Thanks again, I am going to check the convict record of Aaron again, so many thanks for that suggestion.
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Reference:
Reply #3 on: Monday 27 February 17 11:40 GMT (UK) »
Hi Arthur,
I have been looking and checking via Family Search an Ancestry, and could find the marriage, but also couldnt find the marriage of Mary AngelL from Ringwood, so it still points back to a marriage in Ellingham, but agree it doesnt see to add up, as the Peckham Family were in Ringwood for many years
Colin
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Given the lack of other likely baptisms for the Mary Angell who married in 1722, and marriages or burials for the one baptised in Ringwood in 1701, it's looking more probable that they are one and the same.
At this stage I think I'd want to track down images of the parish registers, or at least transcriptions that you can rely on as accurate and word-for-word, to see if there are any more clues. For example, although it's likely that Mary's family were living in Ringwood when she was baptised there in 1701, it's not necessarily the case. There might also be hints in other Angel(l) register entries from parishes round there. And as I mentioned before, wills and memorial inscriptions can help too.
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Reply #14
Thanks Arthur, I will look into Parish Registers...
I did check wills of John Angel father of Mary to see if there was anything about her, but nothing so far.
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Try looking for other Angel(l) wills too - people with no children of their own sometimes give long and useful lists of nieces and nephews. And someone elderly whose own children were already reasonably well off might make legacies to their grandchildren.
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Reply #16
Thanks Arthur.
I will keep trying.
I just found one around the same time that owned 50 acres, but up to this time its been all hard working labourers. Mary Angell would have come from an extremely wealthy family, but was disowned, so the rumour goes. There was a programme on British television "Find a Fortune" about the Angel Fortune.
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I was wondering if anyone knew on any earlier books than this one of The Ripley Meeting House ?
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No I don't think there will be anything earlier. I tried googling for "Ripley Meeting House Sopley Hants" (without quotes) and the first result was an article about the history of the meeting house: http://royhodges.co.uk/Ripley%20Church.pdf It appears to have been built in 1822, but it also mentions baptisms and burials from 1829. The article mentions independent ministers from Christchurch and Ringwood, so maybe some Ripley people would be found in earlier registers in one or both of those places?
However, I don't know the area or the distances involved, and for burials at least, anyone living in Ripley, even if of an independent/congregationalist persuasion, would have been entitled to be buried at the local parish church in Sopley.
Google also found me another thread that you started here a few days ago in which you asked about marriage registers. In the 1820s marriages could only take place in the Church of England, or Quaker or Jewish places of worship, so the Meeting House won't have any marriage registers to look for at that date.
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Hi,
Jumping on here late - I know it's been many years since the last comment was added.
We're currently researching Philip Peckham (born approx. 1740), and trying to determine if he is a son of the John Peckham mentioned in this thread.
We've seen lots of interesting names in this thread, but we're wondering - what are the sources for the birth records for John Peckham's children?
Thank you to anyone who can offer any source material.
Lynne