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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: grannygreen on Tuesday 21 February 17 15:38 GMT (UK)
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Good afternoon all
I am at a brick wall with my husbands 6th Great Grandfather Richard Blacoe Yeoman of Snape Wood in Cabus Garstang born 1707 - I just cannot find out who he was married to or who his parents were as I know the whole family were Roman Catholics and I know that any details are scarce.
I know his children through Returns of the Papists and also burials on Lancashire Parish Registers
Mary born 1737 (she was married to John Baines the miller) died 1809
Joseph born 1741 died 1809 (this is the 5th GGrandfather)
John no birth date but he died 1736
Henry - no birth date but died 1766 (this may not be a son it could be a brother as there was a Henry Blacoe in Cabus who left a will dated 1762)
I have just received this week in the post from lancashire Record Office Richard Blacoe's will which he made on 20th August 1776 (he died 1st Sept 1776) and I was hoping this may give me a clue to some more family
The only hint it gives me is he left some money to his neice Catherine Kilshaw of Sandholme - again I have searched for this lady everywhere and I can find nothing . I am presuming this is her married name or maybe it is one of Richard's sisters who married a Kilshaw (I have also checked Culshaw) but again I have found nothing
I know this is a big ask but I am hoping someone out there has come across the Kilshaw family who I am sure will be Catholics.
Thank you so much in advance for any help or advice
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Cath. Culshaw was godmother to a child of John & Mary Bains. The child was baptised 3rd Nov. 1774 at Claughton which is almost 3 miles from Garstang. The child's Christian name was not recorded in register. The other godparent was Jn ( John I assume) Swarbrick.
Catharine Culshaw was also godmother to J. Turner, child of J. & Elizabeth Turner, baptism 9th April 1775 at same place. Other sponsor was Wm Miller.
Register was baptisms 1771-1834, published by Catholic Record Society in 1916. Vol. 20, Lancs. Registers 3.
R.C. mission in Claughton on Brock was founded 1745. Church opened 1794. Record of baptisms 1771-1834. Lancs. Archives has a copy. (Info from GENUKi)
Baptism Catherine Kilshaw in Prescot in 1727, parents Henry & Ann.
I looked up Kilshaw on Genealogy.com There was a forum Kilshaw Family Genealogy. A post suggested variant spellings, CULCHETH and CULCHOW. I found Kilshay and Kilshow variants elsewhere.
A post on Genealogy.com directed me to a Kilshaw website
http:www.kilshaw-culshaw.co.uk
I couldn't find it. Posts on Genealogy.com were old. However I had a reply last week to one I posted 2 months ago.
The Catholic Record Society volume (which I read online through my sub to The Genealogist) has registers of 6 other parishes. Index showed that most Kilshaw entries were for Lancaster. There was also a Richard Kilshaw at Scorton. Some indexed names were godparents.
I checked Richard Blacoe in the book as well. He & wife Peggy had 3 children baptised at Scorton, Thomas 1801, Ann 1802 and Edward 1804. I thought I'd note them down, just in case they were relevant. I may have a very distant connection with a Blacoe /Blakow of Kirkham in 18thC.
Edit. I just checked Lancs OPC. John Baines & Mary Kilshaw married at Garstang 1756. I saw that 4 years later John Baines married Mary Blaco. Was it the same John ?
Burial 28th March 1799 St. Mary the Virgin, Goosnargh, Catherine Kilshaw. It's 6 miles from Garstang.
There were several Kilshaw entries for Garstang on Lancs OPC but no Catherine.
A couple of Catherine baptisms in Poulton but they died young.
edit. Sandholme is in Barnacre which is Garstang. There was a water-mill. See British history on line website: Barnacre-with-Bonds. The text is taken from "A History of the County of Lancaster" ( Victoria County History).
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Thank you so much Maiden Stone for your time and trouble doing the above for me - the baptism in Prescot I had not seen before so I shall do some work on that today
Yes I saw that Cath Culshaw was Godmother to Barnaby bap 1774 a child to John & Mary Baines (nee Culshaw) and I tried to follow this route to no avail.
John & Mary Baines/Culshaw had several other children all baptised at St Thomas Claughton from 1774 to 1781 (found all these on FreeReg)
Yes John Baines married Mary Blacoe (daughter of Richard) in 1760 they had several children right up to 1781. Mary is buried along with John Baines at St Marys Garstang and she died 1801. So tthe two John Baines must be different.
I also am very sure they are different as in part of the will 2 x John Baines are mentioned, one of which he states
"It is my will and mind that £150 due to me from my son in law John Baines of Sandholme be called in for the discharge of the said legacy"
This John is never mentioned again - however another John Baines was appointed as an executor - two pieces from will say
"I give to my niece Catharine Kilshaw of Sandholme and John Baines in the Forest of Wyredale the sum of £201"
also
"I nominate and appoint my son Joseph Blakoe, John Baines of Wyredale & my niece Catherine Kilshaw executors & executrix of my will"
I believe both John Kilshaws mentioned above are part of this will - confirmed by the marriage of John Baines & Mary Kilshaw which in their marriage bands shown on Lancashire Online Parish Clerk states that John Baines was from Wyresdale and Mary Kilshaw was from Winmarly (Winmarleigh)
the plot thickens!
The Richard Blacoe you mentioned married to Peggy Charnley is our 4th Great Grandfather (the grandson (through Joseph) of Richard Blacoe above born 1707) they had 8 children in total some also baptised at St Mary RC Garstang
Once again thank you very much for your help and interest, what a wonderful and very frustrating hobby this is!
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Might the word "niece" have meant kinswoman, or a relationship not easy to describe. Could she have been a step-daughter of one of them? £200 was a sizeable sum. Do you understand it to mean Cath and John got £200 each or shared it? If they were to share it they presumably had a close relationship. Theory: Catherine was daughter of John Bains of Wyresdale & Mary Kilshaw, born before their marriage. Alternative theory: Mary Kilshaw & John Bains marriage was 2nd marriage for both. 1st marriages preceded Hardwicke's Marriage Act and were clandestine Catholic ceremonies, unrecorded. Catherine and the other John Baines were each offspring of 1st marriages. Catherine and John Baines of Sandholme must have had a close connection if they were both living there. Are you sure about the parentage of all the children of both John & Mary Baines couples? ???
Something else I thought was that Catharine may have looked after Richard in his declining years and illness, perhaps giving up the chance of marriage. What proportion of his estate did she receive? How did he make his money? It surprised me that my R.C. ancestors were better off than any of the rest. They were yeomen too.
I've come across Charnley before, probably a different branch.
Some of my (C. of E.) ancestors may have been at Barnacre in 1760s.
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Once again thank you some great theories there that I had not even thought of - I guess niece could cover a lot of options!
I shall copy and paste the will below as I have transcribed , I have no idea what proportion of his estate as it doesnt say, the whole will is as below. I have no idea how he made his money apart from being a yeoman?
I shall double check the parentage again as you mention of John & Mary Baines x 2 - I suppose it could be possible that Mary Blacoe died a lot earlier
RICHARD BLAKOE WILL 20 AUGUST 1776 1776
This is the last will and testament of Richard Blakoe of Snape Wood in Cabus in the parish of Garstang and County of Lancaster, yeoman by him made this 20th day of August in the year of our Lord 1776.
First it is my will and mind that all my left debts & funeral expenses together with the probate of this my will be first of all fully discharged by my executors & executrix, hereafter nominated & appointed and I do subject all my effects to the full payment & discharge of the same.
I also give to my niece Catharine Kilshaw of Sandholme and John Baines in the Forest of Wyredale the sum of £201 and it is my will and mind that £150 due to me from my son in law John Baines of Sandholme be called in for the discharge of the said legacy. All the residuary part & surplus of my effects of what kind nature or quality so ever, I give, bequeath & divide to my son Joseph Blakoe.
Lastly I nominate, constitute and appoint my son Joseph Blakoe, John Baines of Wyredale aforesaid & my niece Catherine Kilshaw executors & executrix of this my will.
And this I declare to be my last will and testament & do hereby revoke all & every other will here before made by me any time in witness whereof I Richard Blakoe the Testator above named here unto subscribed my hand & seal the day & year above written
Signed sealed published & declared by Richard Blakoe the Testator above named as and for his last Will & Testament in the presence of us who subscribed our names as witnesses here unto his request in his sight & presence & in the sight and presence of each other
Witnesses John Serjeant & Thomas Corbis (Corlis?)
Signed with mark & seal
Richard Blakoe
1st September 1776
Joseph Blacow and Catherine Kilshaw two of the executors in this will named were sworn will and faithfully to execute and perform the same and so forth (Power being reserved for John Baines the other executor in the said will named) before me
James Fisher Surragate[/i]
regards
Marilyn
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Was the value of the estate not stated on the document signed by Joseph Blacow and Catherine on 1st Sept.? All those I have from that era, all from Lancashire, had the words " not exceeding " followed by an amount rounded-up. It was written at the foot of the document.
Why the odd amount of £201 I wonder. It reads as if Cath. and John were to have the money between them. "Sum" not sums; "legacy" not legacies. If he'd intended to give them a sum each it would have been worded differently. Unless he wrote the will himself, without legal advice, so thought he knew what he was doing.
2nd witness to the will was probably Corlis ( Corlas, Corles/s). Plenty of them around. Joseph Blackoe witnessed marriage of Sarah Corles, 1768. Marriage was by licence, so possibly more Catholics? Other witness was John Smith, who may have been a relative of my 6xGGM. My Smith married twice; you think you're at a brick wall? John Corles of Snapewood married 1721.
Catherine Kilshaw of Prescot is probably a red herring. The Kilshaw /Culshaw surname will be common there.
Wills of my yeoman R.C. ancestors haven't been as enlightening as I'd hoped either. One John appointed another John as his executor. 50 years later 2 of their descendants married each other. John left a small bequest to daughter of a Richard. She may have been his niece, but will doesn't say. She was married to a man with an alias. That man's father/ grandfather/uncle may have been married to a relative of his wife's father. In a later generation, sister of another Richard may have married his wife's brother, John, all with same surname.
Another thought. Were Catholics allowed to be executors by 1776 or had they been flouting the law for decades? Wills of both my 18thC Johns were enrolled in George the Third Court Rolls as Catholic wills even though the death of one happened in 1790, after the 2nd Catholic Relief Act.
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Hi again
The value of the estate is not stated anywhere on the paperwork i received nor are there any signatures from Joseph or Catherine unfortunately
Yes I agree the mount of £201 is a very odd amount and it does read that it is between them I had not really noticed that before - it is marvellous what another pair of eyes can see!
I have asked for a look up request on here in the Papist Returns for Catherine Kilshaw & John Baines, I am truly hoping this brings some luck
I thought mine was difficult but your family tree sounds a nightmare!
Good question re executors Joseph one of the executors was most definitely Catholic as he was with Richard on the Papist returns in 1767
Henry Blakoe of Snape Wood in Cabus is showing as having an administration bond in 1768 have you any idea what this is? I thought it was a will but not sure?
I am sure he must have something to do with Richard
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Look up wills on the National Archives site. You should find a definition of administration bond there. I'm a novice re wills so I may tell you the wrong thing. The Henry of the bond may have been the one who died in 1766; either there was no will or it took a long time to sort out. One of my yeomen family above (Richard ) left a will but it was 2 years before probate was granted, by which time his executor had forgotten his brother's date of death. Instead he gave the date of his nephew's death which had been 6 months before his brother's.
The more I think about this will, the more intriguing I find it. I think there's more to it than meets the eye. I've got a few theories. I'll put them down when I have more time. In short I suspect that the legacy was not for the personal use of Catherine K. & John Baines but was to be held in trust for another purpose. It was something that Richard didn't wish to put in writing. It may have been a personal or family matter, or it may have been connected to their religion. Obfuscation was the order of the day.
Of course I may be reading too much into it and the real explanation may be that he was very sick when he wrote/ dictated the will and not thinking clearly. Or that there are words missing.
You said Richard died on 1st September; do you have proof of that date? You said that Joseph and Catherine were sworn etc. on 1st September. I don't know how quickly these things were usually done, but if both dates are correct, Joe & Cath didn't hang about. Their alacrity increases my suspicions. Perhaps they were just being super-efficient.
As for Richard Blacoe. Have you looked for leases for the Blacoe name or the property in Lancs. Archives? Do you know who the landlords or Lord of the manor was? Leases were usually " for 3 lives". My lot seemed to have occupied the same area since 16thC; there are leases, agreements for improvements between landlord and a bunch of tenants, and rent books. Trouble is they were nearly all called John, Richard or Thomas.
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I have Richard's Burial found on Lancashire Online parish and also on Ancestry
Burial: 1 Sep 1776 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England Richard Blacow - Abode: Claughton Register: Burials 1775 - 1780, Page 13, Entry 7 Source: LDS Film 1278942
His son Joseph a yeoman was living in Claughton on his wife's burial and also when he remarried and when he died so I presume that Richard was living there at the time of his death
Thank you for the tip regarding leases on Lancs Archives I shall take a look at those this weekend