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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: mlmcholm on Saturday 18 February 17 15:32 GMT (UK)
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I have recently found 2 baptism records on lancs parish records site for Agnes, born on 9 Nov 1890. One is from 13 Dec 1890, abode workhouse, notes sine caer. The second is from March 1891, abode Union, notes caerim. Supp.
My query is, why 2 baptisms and what do the notes mean? Thanks in advance for all the help. I'd be lost without you all!
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latin I think
Sine Cera means sincere
Think the other word might be ceremony
Children were often baptised twice if it was thought that they might not survive, the second one showing that it obviously did.
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Thanks. Unfortunately she did die all be it 7 yrs later.
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Sine caer. means without ceremony. The Latin word for ceremony is caerimonia.
However, if they didn't think she was going to survive, why wait over a month before the first baptism?
Emeltom
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Thanks Emeltom. Maybe it was just that they wanted a ceremony. I have the family out of the workhouse in the 1891 census. Do you know what the note on the later baptism means?
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I presume the caerim. refers to ceremony. The supp could be supplementary or second.
Emeltom
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Sine caer. means without ceremony. The Latin word for ceremony is caerimonia.
However, if they didn't think she was going to survive, why wait over a month before the first baptism?
Emeltom
She may have been born healthy, then taken ill in December. There may have been an epidemic in the workhouse.
Abode Union for later baptism suggests she was still in workhouse.
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Baptisms of Jacob /James McGough 28th April 1890 (workhouse) & 10th August 1890, both in register of St. Mary of the Assumption, Burnley were exactly the same as Agnes. Compare them with these 2 baptisms in the same year of the register: Catharine Lee, 1st March, abode workhouse and John Douglas, 9th March who have only 1 entry each, although it looks as if they also had 2 baptism ceremonies.
The baptism on 13th December of Agnes would have been a simple rite done at short notice. A baby who was gravely ill, in danger of death could be baptised by a lay person if there wasn't time to fetch a priest. The words "in periculum" signifying the child was gravely ill might be written on the baptism entry.
Another possibility is that a priest routinely called at the workhouse and carried out quick baptisms on babies there . When the family was back home they took the baby to church for "the full works". This is just a theory of mine. While looking at a baptism register for my own village I noticed that babies from the workhouse were baptised on the same day. It was a tiny cottage workhouse, a mile from the church. So I wondered if the parson went there to baptise the babies.
I see Agnes had a godmother at her 2nd baptism.
If you browse the register of St. Mary of the Assumption you will probably find more examples like those above.
Burnley Workhouse records have only been on Lancs OPC for a fortnight.
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Thanks Maiden Stone, that was a very well explained theory, and in my opinion too, probably the answer. I have recently come across a newspaper article on GenesReunited, for 29 Dec 1894 in the Burnley Express, relating to Agnes' father, Michael Green, in court for deserting his family. Would anyone have access to this as I have no account? There is also an article about Michael Green being found dead on 20 Nov 1901. This family of Green's had a tough life!
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Browsing further through St. Mary of the Assumption baptism register for the same few years may identify other examples which may add weight to my theory, or not. I only glanced at a couple of months. Browsing registers sometimes provides clues to possible explanations that a narrowly focused search wouldn't. The babies I mentioned in my own village were all of single mothers in a rural parish.
Burnley workhouse may have had its own chapel. I imagined the priest visiting regularly like a hospital chaplain and carrying out whatever duties were necessary. I hope he washed his hands between the infirmary and the nursery. His visits may have taken place during the week; potential godparents would have been at work. Anyway, mothers may not have had prior notice of visit. There may have been Sunday mass in the workhouse chapel, followed by baptisms. You can calculate day of the week Agnes was baptized.
There was a similar query last week with the title "Side note on baptism". I commented on it. I can't find it today.
Are you a member of a library in Britain? If so, you may be able to access newspaper archives, if your library has a sub. If not, I can look up the articles but I could only give you a summary. I'm a computer novice. I'm also still learning about using online newspaper archives.
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Thanks again, fascinating stuff and a real eye opener to life back then. I am a member of lancs online library, but Burnley Express is only available for 1904.
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Just a thought! I can't find Annie in the 1901 census, Annie (mother) There is a Michael and son Arthur living at Massey st as lodgers. I wonder if Annie ended up back in the workhouse after Michael's desertion? Everyone's help is appreciated so much. Thank you