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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Tineke on Friday 17 February 17 17:08 GMT (UK)
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Hope someone can help me find details on my friends mother I have tried the usual records without any result Eirwen May Paul was b 1918. In the. Pontypridd area
This is the name on my friends birth certificate Her mother was adopted she thinks within the family .Her father was David John Paul b1886 She was told that her mother had a stepmother and an older stepbrother named John Stevens. In a family tree record Eirwens. mother is stated unknown If any can help with this mystery we would be very grateful. Thank you Tineke
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Have you looked for her in 1939 register to confirm birth date :-\
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No where do I find this ?
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It is only available on FindMyPast. You can 'play' with the search facility to work out a date of birth without a subscription.
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Many thanks to you all for your help , much appreciated Tineke
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Tineke I have sent you a personal message
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Thank you so much ,the information is very helpful. Kind regards Tineke
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I have confirmed birth as 1918 Glamorgan. Father David John Paul. Mother still unknown I have sent for marriage certificate for David John Paul and Gwenllian Jenkins 1911 Eirwen was adopted within the family so we are told. And born 7 years after that marriage. Pretty sure Gwenllian was not her mother I cannot find a birth registration for Eirwen in Wales or England Would like to get copy of her birth ,any ideas. Many thanks Tineke
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It may be that Eirwen was 'adopted' by both David & Gwenllian as she was resident with them when she was about 20. What is the source of the information that he is her father other than I would imagine her marriage certificate.
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I have seen registration for marriage 1940. Will order a certificate. Many thanks
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Hi. I am David and researching the very same Ancestry. Eirwen was my mother in law, and I have spent much time trying to find her place of birth. I am certain Tineke, that the present details you hold on Eirwen are correct. We thought at one period in time that England was her place of origin, but whatever we try throws up no results. If I can locate her place of birth, then I will let you know.
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I wonder whether those looking for Eirwen's birth have investigated the birth of Eirwen M Keen, mother's maiden name Jones, registered in Pontypridd in Dec qtr 1918. This registration would be consistent with a birth on 1 November 1918.
She is the only Eirwen M registered in Pontypridd in that quarter. I can't immediately see any later records for her as Keen, so wonder whether she may have become Eirwen May Paul?
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Hi I have just received marriage certicate for David John Paul and Gwenllian Jenkins 8 th Nov 1911.This confirms their marriage but does not help the search. for Eirwen I can't see that Gwenllian was her mother as she would have been legitimate I think perhaps David Paul was her father but her mother is unknown. Did he have an affair with someone but accepted Eirwen was his. Was this unamed stepmother her real mother ? Who was the Half brother John Stephens or Stevens .? he was older than her but it seems she was close to him There was some talk of a neighbour but the information is sparse. Any ideas. ..? Regards Tineke
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I wonder whether those looking for Eirwen's birth have investigated the birth of Eirwen M Keen, mother's maiden name Jones, registered in Pontypridd in Dec qtr 1918. This registration would be consistent with a birth on 1 November 1918.
She is the only Eirwen M registered in Pontypridd in that quarter. I can't immediately see any later records for her as Keen, so wonder whether she may have become Eirwen May Paul?
I think this needs looking at further. I am not convinced that David Paul was her biological father, maybe just the 'father' that brought her up.
Rosie
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I now have. Eirwens marriage certificate. It gives David John Paul as her father Eirwen married in 1940 at the Register Office in Pontypridd. At the time of marriage. Eirwen lived at 18 Clarence St. Gelli Glamorgan. On all the census. I have seen her father. Lived at Traherne St. Pentre. Pontypridd
Is there a way to find who lived at 18 Clarence Street in 1918 when Eirwen was born ? Still have found no sign of Eirwens half. brother John Stephens. Or Stevens. Or her stepmother name unknown. Any new ideas ? Regards. Tineke
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I now have. Eirwens marriage certificate. It gives David John Paul as her father
This does not always indicate a birth father and is often the person who brought them up, in some cases it could be their grandfather ;D
Is there a way to find who lived at 18 Clarence Street in 1918 when Eirwen was born ? Still have found no sign of Eirwens half. brother John Stephens. Or Stevens. Or her stepmother name unknown.
I doubt if there was an electoral register around this time because of WW1
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I have found Eirwen. David and Gwenllian in the same household in the 1939 Register. But do not know what address I found a death for a Gwenllian Paul in 1942 in the right area David died in 1950 However no nearer finding Eirwens biological mother which is the main object of the search. I have not come across any children of David and Gwenllian. Wonder if they had any ?
Regards Tineke
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Hi Tineke,
Contact Aberdare Library for FH. (This is the locality FH library) You need address and be aged 21 to be included in household. The electrol rolls start at 1919, do not include the WW2 years. Hope it helps.
http://www.rctcbc.gov.uk/EN/Resident/SchoolsandLearning/Libraries/Librarylocationsandopeninghours/AberdareLibrary.aspx
The registration district was Pontypridd, the area in 1918 for Pentre was Rhondda. Tracing back pre 1911 would be Ystradyfodwg.
Hopefully with addresses you have, some info may come to light, the service is free.
Cas
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Many thanks for the information. I will follow it up. Regards Tineke
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Hi,
Forgot to add if you have a date of death, for the Paul family, the FH library are able to look up interment records for the nearest large cemetery to Pentre, which would be Treorchy, if they died within area. Can also tell you who is in same plot number and address at death, who owns plot etc. They can scan and email original. This can help confirm electrol info, if any.
I have checked the index of the other largest cem in area, but not there (Trealaw) only looked for surname Paul, and names mentioned.
FH Libraries are located at Aberdare and also Pontypridd. Treorchy Library used to be a fantastic resource with great staff, but due to local cuts was closed a while ago. Resources were moved to the other FH libraries, out of immediate local area.
Good luck if you contact.
ADDED looks possibly likely David J Paul died in Pentre area 1950 Pontypridd reg district.
Cas
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Hi. The David j Paul you mention died 1950 is the correct one I found a death for Gwenllian Paul Dec 1942 Reg Cardiff Glamorgan Grave at Penrys Cemetery Rhonda CynonTaff I am sure this is Davids wife. Eirwen May Paul. Married in 1940. In the 1939 Register. David ,Gwenllian and Eirwen live at the same address. ,the address on her marriage certificate. Is 18 Clarence St. Gelli. Guess this is the same as the 1939 Register. I will contact the library to see if there are any clues to who Her biological mother was. She must have been illegitimate. As there is no trace of a birth registration. , I have search. Wales and England no luck. There was talk of a neighbour being involved. However next step Pontypridd Library. Thanks again for your help. Regards Tineke
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As I said before, if it were me I would be ordering the birth certificate of Eirwen M Keen to see whether the precise birthdate matches up with your Eirwen's birthdate as per the 1939 Register.
The address of the Keen family may also be of interest, if there was talk of a neighbour relationship.
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As I said before, if it were me I would be ordering the birth certificate of Eirwen M Keen to see whether the precise birthdate matches up with your Eirwen's birthdate as per the 1939 Register.
The address of the Keen family may also be of interest, if there was talk of a neighbour relationship.
I agree ;D ;D
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The dates fit Eirwen was b 1st November 1918. Have just messaged my, friend to ask if it is ok to get a certificate. I don't like to spend others money without an ok Will keep you posted. Thanks Tineke
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As I said before, if it were me I would be ordering the birth certificate of Eirwen M Keen to see whether the precise birthdate matches up with your Eirwen's birthdate as per the 1939 Register.
The address of the Keen family may also be of interest, if there was talk of a neighbour relationship.
I agree ;D ;D
I also agree.
Cas
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There appear to be other births that could be siblings to Eirwen Keen, I have tried following them through. A couple die in infancy, two of the girls seem to marry in Pontypridd area and one of the sons possibly dies young in Essex. I have not yet located anything on the possible parents of these children.
I will wait to see what the certificate brings if you are able to order it.
Rosie
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Hello. Certificate for Eirwen May. Keen. Arrived today correct birth 1st November 1918 mother Elizabeth Anne Keen maiden name Jones. Fathers details left blank so found her at last thanks to your help
Found an public members tree with just John William Keen m 1911 Elizabeth Anne Jones Pontypridd. Then Seperated no details given , must have divorced as John remarries a Minnie Irene Cregan in Cardiff in 1926. They have at least 9 children
Now would like to find out what happened to Elizabeth Anne did she remarry .?
Thank s to all of you who have been involved. Regards Tineke
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Well done avm228 for finding that Eirwen M Keen birth ;D ;D
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Well done avm228 for finding that Eirwen M Keen birth ;D ;D
:) Rosie - so glad she's a match!
I'd recommend Tineke look for John and Elizabeth (Lizzie) Keen in 1911 and see how their address compares with those known for the Paul family later on. (Does the 1918 birth certificate show a Clarence St address?).
The free 1911 index suggests the Keen couple are in that area, both aged 21, and also that there is a Jones family in the close vicinity - perhaps they are related to Elizabeth.
FreeBMD shows Keen/Jones births in Pontypridd right up to 1924, suggesting (if they are all of the same family) that the marriage lasted till then.
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I wonder what the 1926 marriage says about John Williams marital status ie Widowed/Divorced/Bachelor
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Hi, don't know if any help..
Another researcher of same family, says at least 4 children born to couple. Eirwen is not included. Maybe contact if email still viable could shed some light on what happened to Elizabeth.
http://www.welshcoalmines.co.uk/forum/read.php?6,36620,36792
There is a possible death for namesake in area in 1977. Also on 1939 in same locality but further up the valley. The dob is a few years out from the possible, but likely 1911, so just a possible to keep on file until proven.
Cas
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Many thanks to all who have contributed in my search for Eirwen May Paul. .I contacted Pontypridd Library and a wonderful librarian searched all the records including electoral rolls and answered all the questions .Elizabeth Ann Keen nee Jones was Eirwens mother and was with Eirwen for at least her first 2 years .At some point later she moved on and Gwenllian Paul became her stepmother .
All the help given is greatly appreciated.
Thanks again. Tineke
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I am pleased to hear that Pontypridd library were so helpful and able to answer your questions. It is good that the mystery around Eirwen has been solved ;D
Rosie
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Speaking as the "wonderful librarian" at Pontypridd, I thank you for your praise and must say it was a pleasure to be able to help. :) Really means a lot to see the praise.
Just thought I should clarify a point made earlier in the thread about Treorchy Library, though. The reference department there is still open to the public and is manned several days a week and the resources for the Rhondda are still based there. The caveat is, though, that the three reference libraries in RCT (i.e. Treorchy, Pontypridd & Aberdare) are not manned every day, so would suggest you either email or telephone to make an appointment if you want to visit when there's a reference librarian on site.
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Speaking as the "wonderful librarian" at Pontypridd, I thank you for your praise and must say it was a pleasure to be able to help. :) Really means a lot to see the praise.
Small world :)
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Thank you for the clarification Simon, I only ever used Treorchy, thought it was now closed, It is good to know.
Thank you to all library staff and all the wonderful support you give FH researchers. I remember Anthony was a gem when based in Treorchy FH library. Wonder if he is still with RCT?
Very much appreciated and thanks again for all RCT library reference staff efforts, particularly in FH :)
Cas
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I remember Anthony was a gem when based in Treorchy FH library. Wonder if he is still with RCT?
Anthony was indeed a gem. I remember going into Treorchy when I first started researching (several years before I started working for RCT Libraries), and can't praise him highly enough for the help he gave. Sadly he's no longer with us - he tragically passed away a few years ago. It says a lot about him, though, that I often hear people say how helpful he was.
Thanks for the praise. We all try our very best, and must admit that I love every minute of it - it doesn't feel like work to me, as my job is also my hobby. :)