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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: gralorn on Friday 17 February 17 15:14 GMT (UK)
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I have found out that my Great Grandfather Percy Alphonso William ALLARD was employed as the butler at 15 Eaton Place, London in 1883 as it states it on his marriage certificate to Elizabeth Witt at St Georges Church, Hanover Square on Monday 22 August 1883. What I would dearly like to have is a copy of the 1881 Census showing him as the butler, the downstairs people, and of course the upstairs employers! I believe he was the butler to Francis W Buxton MP for Andover and his wife Mary the daughter of the 1st Baron Lawrence. A copy or any other additional information would be most appreciated. Thank you in anticipation.
Graham
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There is a William Allard, Butler boarding at 25 Moore Street,Chelsea. Not sure this is right man as states he is married.
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John B Pratt is on the 1881 as Butler for 15 Eaton Place.
Regards
Angie
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As jacko-to says he is not the butler on the 1881 census it's John B Pratt, unfortunately he is not living in 15 Eaton Place in 1881.
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John B Pratt is still the butler to the Buxton family in 1891.
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Where is he born and what year?
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I could only find a Percy Allard working as a Butler on the 1901 census, he states he is married but his wife is not with him. The BMD for Percy Alphonso William shows he was born in 1858 in Suffolk.
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LizzieW I have just found a Elizabeth Allard married no husband at home in Wales 1901 Denbighshire Chirk District 15
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1901 looka like wife elizabeth and children are living in the lodge next door to where Percy is
Suz
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Other thread from some years ago
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=276812.msg1605786#msg1605786
I don't know how to make it into a link sorry
added - apparently it is a link :)
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1901 looka like wife elizabeth and children are living in the lodge next door to where Percy is
Suz
Percy Allard appears to be the butler to Lord Trevor, of Brynkinalt Hall RG13 Piece 2546 Folio 170 Page 4
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Trevor
Stan
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1881
Elizabeth Witt, born abt 1861 - London, Middlesex
children's maid at 4 Oscars Villas, St.Peters Kent Head:Harriet K Jerard
piece:991 Folio:29 Page Number:6
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Really quite confused now as their (Percy & Elizabeth) marriage certificate clearly state: August 22 1883, he is butler 15 Eaton Place and her residing at 3 Grosvenor Street. I do know that they went then to Maidstone, Kent as on the 1891 census he is still a butler, they live in 23 Foster street. Who he is a butler for I have no idea, but must be someone influential as he then gets the appointment of butler for Lord Trevor in Brynkinalt Hose Chirk.
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Could he have had a different occupation in 1881?
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Hello,
Who were the witnesses to the marriage?
Do you have Percy in 1871 or 1881?
I have just followed this person, Walter Last , through censuses. He was born abt 1857, Barham, Suffolk and it is interesting. He goes from being a Page in Suffolk, to a footman in Portland Place, London and then a Butler in Eaton Place in 1891. By 1901 he has left service and married.
I wonder if Percy was in Eaton Place briefly between posts. He may have been travelling with his employer in 1881. I would imagine his experiences would be similar to Walter Last's.
Heywood
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By 1901 he has left service and married.
In the 1901 census he is still a butler see my post. #10
Stan
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By 1901 he has left service and married.
In the 1901 census he is still a butler see my post. #10
Stan
My post is about Walter Last, from the same place as Percy Allard and who I have used to show the possible career path of Percy, especially as Walter also is a butler and in Eaton Place.
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Sorry, my mistake :(
Stan
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John B Pratt is still the butler to the Buxton family in 1891.
Reading the other thread, the Buxton family have moved by 1891. Looking at 15 Eaton Place in 1891 there are 4 servants but no householder there :(
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Sorry yes they had moved, I was just making the point that they had the same butler for both 1881/1891 and not our chap :)
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I have found out that my Great Grandfather Percy Alphonso William ALLARD was employed as the butler at 15 Eaton Place, London in 1883 as it states it on his marriage certificate to Elizabeth Witt at St Georges Church, Hanover Square on Monday 22 August 1883.
Graham
Does the marriage cert state "Butler at 15 Eaton Place"
or does it state "Occupation: Butler Address 15 Eaton place"??
if it is the latter then it does not necessarily mean he lived at 15 Eaton Place -just that is the address given for the marriage - he could have been staying with someone else who worked at 15 Eaton Place or could have been visiting 15 Eaton Place with whoever he was Butler to
Addresses on marriage certs don't necessarily mean that is where the person was living most of the time -it could be a residency address given so that Banns didn't have to be read in another Church
Suz
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I agree Suz.
I also think though that as the employers have changed, he could have been there for a time but I suppose we will never know that.
I haven't looked back but do we have him in 1881 yet?
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I can't find him in England Wales or Scotland??
Haven't tried to find his parents so will look at them
Suz
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I think I saw that his mother died and in 1871 1742/306
He is Percy Allwood, 13 yrs with his sister Florence and his relatives the Fulchers.
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Walter Last seems to fit all the known bits and pieces of Percy Allard as well strangely, with the exception that Percy remains a butler, goes to Maidstone, Kent as a butler and then Chirk in Wales. After that he emigrates to Canada. His wife Elizabeth Witt was a childs maid for the family Jerard, she was employed by a Harriet K Jerard in 1881 in Broadstairs, Kent. Ten years later she is married to Percy with two children one aged two Bertram, and my grandfather Harold aged 4 months living in Maidstone, Kent where Percy is still shown as a butler aged 33. I have that feeling that things are slowly coming together, I think!
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Perhaps he was staying with this 'Walter Last' a friend who was employed at Eaton Place from where he got married from. Walter was born in the same village as Percy! Plot thickens. At the same time getting very interesting and I thank you all for your information to date.
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Elizabeth Witt is a children's maid to Gertrude E J Law & Emily I T Law, who were listed as pupils at the address with the Head Harriet K Jerard being a Governess. There is also a house maid registered at this address.
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Gralorn,
Who were the witnesses to the marriage?
Heywood
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heywood the marriage appears to be in Westminster Marriages on FindMyPast if you have access. I no longer have a sub there.
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Nor do I. :)
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On the marriage certificate the witnesses were Henry & Sarah Witt, I presume her parents as Henry is also shown as her father. On the marriage certificate it states under Rank or Profession 'Butler' then under Residence at the time of marriage '15 Eaton Place'. To date I cannot locate Percy Allard on a census for 1881. His step mother Jane Skeet left all the inheritance on her demise to the sister of Percy who was Florence, supposedly because he did not take up a profession in the church! Later in his life in Canada he became a very influential lay preacher.
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That's a nuisance re the witnesses!
I think it could be quite likely that he was there at the time of his marriage- it seems possible.
I wonder if his then employer was travelling abroad and Percy accompanying him.
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The employer in 1881 is still at home though isn't he Buxton?
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it seems that a man called PRATT was Buxtons butler at 15 Eaton Place not my great grandfather?? so still no idea where Percy was.
Thankyou though for information
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The employer in 1881 is still at home though isn't he Buxton?
We don't know who Percy's employer was in 1881.
The Buxtons were elsewhere in 1891 so had obviously moved. It could be possible then that Percy was working for whoever replaced the Buxtons.