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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: thebells on Wednesday 15 February 17 12:09 GMT (UK)

Title: Francis Bell born Scotland ca 1660-1665
Post by: thebells on Wednesday 15 February 17 12:09 GMT (UK)
I have found quite a few old (10+ years) posts about Francis Bell who lived in North Petherton, Somerset, England. He was allegedly born in Scotland and married Elizabeth Speede in North Petherton in 1692. In the old posts it was suggested he may have been from Hawick, Supplebank or Cleughheads in Scotland. Has anybody found him definitively?
Title: Re: Francis Bell born Scotland ca 1660-1665
Post by: joboy on Thursday 16 February 17 09:52 GMT (UK)
Hi .......... I must have missed some posts which you mention.
Would you please let me know about you comment;
" In the old posts it was suggested he may have been from Hawick, Supplebank or Cleughheads in Scotland."
as I cant recall any of them.
Joe 
Title: Re: Francis Bell born Scotland ca 1660-1665
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 16 February 17 10:15 GMT (UK)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=57223.msg1193040#msg1193040

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714425.msg5581510#msg5581510

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=155969.msg6170475#msg6170475
Title: Re: Francis Bell born Scotland ca 1660-1665
Post by: thebells on Thursday 16 February 17 11:29 GMT (UK)
Joe - Ruskie has already found the posts I was referring to and it turns out they were from you. Have you made any progress on Francis Bell? I am also interested in your comment in one post that Elizabeth was a minor who was pregnant when she married Francis in 1692. But she was born in February 1668 so she would have been 24 when married. Her eldest child William was born in 1693 but she might have lost a first baby. Do you have a source for the pregnant when wed comment? I am a direct descendant of Francis Bell.
Title: Re: Francis Bell born Scotland ca 1660-1665
Post by: joboy on Thursday 16 February 17 20:29 GMT (UK)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=57223.msg1193040#msg1193040

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714425.msg5581510#msg5581510

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=155969.msg6170475#msg6170475
Thanks Ruskie ...... my memory is not what it used to be..... also my memory is not what it used to be  ::) ::) :D
Title: Re: Francis Bell born Scotland ca 1660-1665
Post by: joboy on Thursday 16 February 17 21:32 GMT (UK)
I have just gone back to my early records and have the following which were taken from the original;
Francis Bell married 25 Feb 1693 Elizabeth Speed of Taunton Parish a minor and daughter of Edith Speed (widow otp) he was a Scotchman (sic) comment 'Pregnant when wed'.
Searching further I found (via IGI) a marriage of John Speed to Edith Tucker 1665 and baptism of daughter Elizabeth Speed born June 19 1668 both at North Petherton.
This confirms the existence of Edith but does not meet the the (minor) age requirements unless the first daughter Elizabeth died and she had a second and named her Elizabeth too which was common practice and for us ........more searching.
Joe   ;) ;)
Title: Re: Francis Bell born Scotland ca 1660-1665
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 17 February 17 00:58 GMT (UK)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=57223.msg1193040#msg1193040

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714425.msg5581510#msg5581510

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=155969.msg6170475#msg6170475
Thanks Ruskie ...... my memory is not what it used to be..... also my memory is not what it used to be  ::) ::) :D

 ;D But I see your sense of humour is still very sharp. :D

This thread caught my eye because I have a Francis Bell in one of my research lines - he is Scottish ..... but I can't remember where he is from (but he is a lot more recent than the 1600s). :)
Title: Re: Francis Bell born Scotland ca 1660-1665
Post by: joboy on Friday 17 February 17 01:54 GMT (UK)
Joe - Ruskie has already found the posts I was referring to and it turns out they were from you. Have you made any progress on Francis Bell? I am also interested in your comment in one post that Elizabeth was a minor who was pregnant when she married Francis in 1692. But she was born in February 1668 so she would have been 24 when married. Her eldest child William was born in 1693 but she might have lost a first baby. Do you have a source for the pregnant when wed comment? I am a direct descendant of Francis Bell.
I do trust that this portion of a spreadsheet comes out for you if not can someone tell me how to do it?
1st name   last name      Date         Father   Mother   Partner   Parish/Address   Witnesses      Comments
Elizabeth   Bell   c   1684   Mar-22   daugh   George         North Petherton         
Ann   Speed   c   1693   Mar-20   daugh   John   Patience      North Petherton         
William   Bell   c   1693   Jun-23   son   Francis   Elizabeth      North Petherton         
Francis   Bell   m   1693   Feb-25            Elizabeth Speed   Taunton / otp   minor = d of Edith Speed widow otp   Scotchman   (pregnant when wed)
John   Speed   c   1695   May-08   son   John   Patience      North Petherton         
Elizabeth   Bell   c   1696   Mar-02   daugh   Francis   Elizabeth      North Petherton         
Robert   Bell   c   1698   Sep-13   son   Francis   Elizabeth      North Petherton         
Thomas   Speed   c   1700   Jan-15   son   John   Patience      North Petherton         
John   Bell   b   1700   Aug-15   son   Francis         North Petherton         
Thomas   Bell   b   1700   Aug-15   son   Francis         North Petherton         

Well it seems to have changed a little ........ perhaps a little more than a little  :o :o
Title: Re: Francis Bell born Scotland ca 1660-1665
Post by: joboy on Friday 17 February 17 02:10 GMT (UK)
and from another spreadsheet confirmation of the existence of Edith Tucker and her daughter
Elizabeth   Speed   c   1668   Jun-19      John   Edith Tucker      North Petherton   (IGI)      
John   Speed   m   1665   Jan-08            Edith Tucker   North Petherton   (IGI)      
Title: Re: Francis Bell born Scotland ca 1660-1665
Post by: joboy on Friday 17 February 17 08:08 GMT (UK)
I should add my interest in Francis Bell.
It was my late wife's interest really and the information and I found and recorded as much as I could find from whatever source for her right down to her mother who was an Australian and a direct descendant of Francis the Scotchman (sic).
Joe
PS .. wish I could back that far with my own line which fizzles out around 1735.  :'( :'(
Title: Re: Francis Bell born Scotland ca 1660-1665
Post by: thebells on Friday 17 February 17 16:40 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your help Joboy. I have found the original sources to most of your info except the bit about Elizabeth being a minor and pregnant when wed. Do you know where this came from?
Title: Re: Francis Bell born Scotland ca 1660-1665
Post by: joboy on Friday 17 February 17 21:31 GMT (UK)
Sadly I do not .......... I do remember her name was 'Trish' and she supplied me with practically all the Bell information in spreadsheet form by individual pages describing by date,event,alphabetically,by parents and by other names.
As you can imagine it is a quite large amount of information.
Noting your user name 'The Bells' I imagine that your interest would go further than Francis and Elizabeth and if this is so I would be most pleased if you would like to have it I could post it on if I could have your email address which you could do via a PM.
Joe Twitchin in Sydney
Title: Re: Francis Bell born Scotland ca 1660-1665
Post by: pompeylad on Saturday 23 February 19 21:19 GMT (UK)
I just found this thread about Francis Bell & Elizabeth Speed who are ancestors of mine. Regarding Elizabeth being a minor and pregnant when wed, the parish register makes no mention of either. I suspect that the pregnant comment is based on the fact that the son William was baptised in June 1693, four months after the marriage. I've no idea where the source of Elizabeth's minority comes from, since she was baptised in Jun 1668 and would be age 24 at marriage, as has been pointed out. I'd be interested in the source of the Scottish records for Francis' birth/baptism as I can't find him in the records on scotlandspeople.
Title: Re: Francis Bell born Scotland ca 1660-1665
Post by: Xue on Saturday 20 March 21 12:40 GMT (UK)
Just found this thread now.

Francis Bell is my 8 times Great Grandfather. Grateful if anyone, now or in the future, comes up with anything other than the word 'scotsman' on the marriage record - because that's as far as I have got with him!

Thanks
Title: Re: Francis Bell born Scotland ca 1660-1665
Post by: Xue on Monday 22 March 21 08:58 GMT (UK)
Still rooting around the records as you do when a bee gets in your wee bonnet ...

What if he was not born in Scotland? There are no matching entries in probable years and indeed the name Francis seems very uncommon.

There are about 13 possible records in England though. What if he was born in England but the family were either travelling at the time or moved back to Scotland when he was very young.

So long ago and such patchy records but it's one possibility I can think of if none of us can find him in Scotland ...

I think they would still count him as a Scotsman for the marriage records if he sounded like a Scotsman - and he himself may not have wanted to admit being born in England!