RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: clearly on Sunday 12 February 17 20:30 GMT (UK)
-
Recently a collection of postcards turned up in Carlisle, Cumbria which depicted a fire engine and various personnel. Can any throw any light as to where this fire station may have been situated. Fairly certain it was not Carlisle area
-
I can just make out. & Co. on the side, which may suggest this one is a private fire engine belonging to a factory.
Mike
-
The fact that they are wearing light coloured trousers and shoes might suggest they were normally employed in a foodstuff factory and were part of a works fire brigade.
I'll suggest MOORES & CO
-
That was a good spot Mike. Could you ask them to lift their legs up so that we can see the rest of it? ;D It looks like the town name is underneath?
Maybe ......CARE... (not an L for Carlisle).
The eyes aren't what they used to be!
Giggsy
-
I think it says. "FIRE BRIGADE". undeneath, they all seem to.
This one may be a merryweather, 1920s the Dennis's seem to have continuos louvres aong the bonnet sides, whereas the Merryweathesrs are two sets on each side.
Mike
-
If I magnify the picture, what it says on the side is "Fire Brigade" but above is a word I can only see bits of.
?M??RB? And Co.
-
Looks like:
'M?RE' & Co...
Fire Brigade
-
Think is says BRIGADE bottom line
:)
-
I was just looking at other photos of factory fire brigades and thought how similar the building in this photo looked.
https://goo.gl/images/uRGhPR
-
I think the "M" could actually be a "W" :P ;) :)
Frank.
-
I think you're right, Frank.
I think it says "Rowntree & Co."
-
I think you're right, Frank.
I think it says "Rowntree & Co."
Yes!
-
ROWNTREE & Co.
FIRE BRIGADE
Signwriting was a vey precise art back then. Seems to fit
Mike
-
ROWNTREE & Co.
FIRE BRIGADE
Signwriting was a vey precise art back then. Seems to fit
Mike
I'll settle for that ;D ;D ;D
Frank.
-
What great photo and good detective work from Mike with a little help from Frank :D
Carol
-
The building certainly resembles this one
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-rowntree-works-fire-brigade-with-their-engine-rowntree-factory-york-60078146.html
-
What great photo and good detective work from Mike with a little help from Frank :D
Carol
I think every contribution helped, it is pleasant to be on a thread with no controversy, isn't this the spirit of Rootschat :) :)
Mike
-
Good morning,
I'm not sure there is room to get the "RO" behind that chaps leg without seeing the "R" or part of it. Also, if you google Rowntree & Co fire brigade there are no photos showing that style of dress. They all have black trousers and boots.
John915
-
What a truly fantastic response with sincere thanks to all who contributed, especially Birkbeck who found the picture.
A little background: this photo has been hawked around all the antiquarian and photo buffs in Carlisle for weeks, without success. I suggested Rootschat as the best site I have ever come across for this sort of thing. How long did it take to identify this:- one hour and four minutes. Brilliant by any standard.
Again, many thanks to everyone.
Chester
-
Good morning,
I'm not sure there is room to get the "RO" behind that chaps leg without seeing the "R" or part of it. Also, if you google Rowntree & Co fire brigade there are no photos showing that style of dress. They all have black trousers and boots.
John915
Hi, I think they may, to be honest, if they have "N" and "T" behind the chaps left leg, they could well get the "R" and "O" behind his other one? :-\
I noted the white trousers and wondered if it is possibly a "Posed" photograph by some of the workforce or maybe employee's being trained to do the job.
Regards always
Frank.
-
Actually, there is ample room for R and O. I have copied and pasted the existing R as well as the C (which is usually a fatter letter than O) and it fits with room to spare
It may be that there is Ltd at the end of the first line which would allow for the indent of FIRE at the start of the second line.
-
Re the white trousers, I wonder whether they had dark and white trousers in their kit. See here:
https://goo.gl/images/1IknX1
-
They would be workmen in the factory. When the alarm went off they would report to the fire engine in whatever they were wearing. As it was a food factory they would be wearing light coloured clothes.
-
Actually, there is ample room for R and O. I have copied and pasted the existing R as well as the C (which is usually a fatter letter than O) and it fits with room to spare......................
Nice touch :)
Frank.
-
I think the white shoes points to them being employees as well.
Frank.
-
Good morning again,
Still not convinced, yes they do fit but for two things.
1, You don't have the same spacing between letters as there is between the "R" and the "E".
2, The top row would be centered above the bottom which only has an "F" missing.
I believe the name starts "M" or "W".
Also the building is different in the two photos, the posted photo shows the corner of the building. The Rowntrees one shows a square block jutting out. Then there is the fire engine itself, googling "Row trees fire brigade photos" there are none showing a fire engine like the one posted. Surely if they had one like it then the photos would have it.
John915
-
Here is a possible explanation of the white shoes and trousers. The photograph show Bootham School Fire Brigade in action c1911 and dress is identical.
It would account for all the "Fire Brigade" members in the original photograph being clean shaven, except for the driver who is probably one of Rowntrees firemen. I would assume that the boys were on a visit to the factory to learn some fire fighting techniques.
-
Here is a possible explanation of the white shoes and trousers. The photograph show Bootham School Fire Brigade in action c1911 and dress is identical.
A good find.
As I said previously, there is little doubt that the windows in the background are the same as those shown at the Rowntree's factory (in this photo with a later fire engine)
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-rowntree-works-fire-brigade-with-their-engine-rowntree-factory-york-60078146.html
-
I am not convinced by this photo, I am not disputing whether it is Rowntrees or not, but whether it is a genuine Fire Brigade photo. These men all look young all about the same age, apart from the driver, the others don't look old enough to drive!!
If you look at photos of fire brigade members from works brigades and others, there is always a mix of ages and experience, not all the same age as on this photo. There are no photos on line, that I can see, of firemen in white trousers and white shoes. The trousers that are in the picture that Birkbeck found look like waterproof over trousers not tight fitting ones like in this photo. My husband who was a fireman had yellow ones, which would show up white on a photo.
Perhaps this is a photo of an old fire engine about to enter a parade or something. To me, these men (students) don't look like firemen.
Edit: I was writing this as Clearly was posting the school photo.
-
Trishanne, please refer to post at 12.51 re Bootham School
Chester
-
It is more than likely that the works fire brigade were never called into action, in fact without a pump tender they would have little to fight the fire with. :) :) ;)
My thoughts are that this beautiful expensive equipment has been newly delivered and the photo has been posed with the factory volunteers, most probably apprentices as you would not want skilled workers missing from their work for practice sessions.
Mike
-
Chester if you read my last comment -
Edit: I was writing this as Clearly was posting the school photo.
I was writing my post and hadn't seen your photo. When I posted my comments at 13.06 I saw your school photo and added my edit to acknowledge your photo.
-
Well done, everyone. Another photo from Rowntrees, and the building behind looks very much like the right-hand side of ours:
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-merryweather-fire-engine-rowntrees-cocoa-works-york-england-1910s-83100203.html
Apart from the helmets, no-one here is dressed remotely like a fireman! So were these some kind of publicity shots? Or did they take the fire engine out on parades, with the amount of firemen's uniform varying year by year?
Arthur
-
Nice find Arthur :) the brickwork around the windows certainly looks like a match.
Frank.
-
Nice find Arthur :) the brickwork around the windows certainly looks like a match.
By chance I discovered that once on the Alamy photos site you get different results with Rowntree and Rowntrees, which is presumably why it wasn't found before.