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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Berkshire => England => Berkshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Deb Clark Rennie on Tuesday 07 February 17 06:50 GMT (UK)
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Hello all this is my first time posting so I hope I'm doing this right.
I have a bit of family mystery I'm trying to solve so thought I would try get some help. I'm sorry if this will be lengthy but it's hard to explain.
I've been building my family tree for almost a year and have managed to work out a good deal of it there will always be blanks as my paternal great grandparents were both illegitimate.
My great grandmother was Daisy Isabel Wade and she was mostly raised by her grandparents Frederick and Harriet Wade. I pretty much have them all sorted. Frederick's parents were Joseph and Martha Wade, on all of Frederick's military papers and census records he says he was born at Oakingham near Reading, but to date I've found no baptism for him or his younger sister Isabella Wade. In 1841 they are in Newbury and his mother Martha is listed as being from Newbury where as Jospeh and the two children are not. They were quite tricky to trace as Jospeh was also military and after this census is only found in Dublin and is buried in the Arbor Hill Military cemetery as he was prison guard. I know by Frederick's marriage to Harriet his father was a colour Sargent as was he. But I've no idea where Jospeh came from prior to that 1841 record or who Martha was. However I did find a marriage on find my past in 1831 for a Joseph Wade widower and Martha Grubb in Newbury, Frederick was born in 1832 so I thought this could well be them.
What has also been a bit of a mystery is that on the 1841 census living with the Wades are two young boys Edwin and Ernest Eeles (it's been transcribed incorrectly) I did find the family they belong too in 1851 with father David listed then as widower, so I though that perhaps the Wades may have just been helping out with the boys, but the mystery deepened yesterday when I decided to see who Martha Grubb born around 1808 Newbury was and it seems she was born to John and Mary Grubb née Paradise in Newbury. So then I took at look at Mary Grubb who in 1841 is living with her son in Newbury and she is a widow, then too my surprise there are two young girls living with her Ellen and Emma Eeles. On further searching I'm wondering if Ellen is actually Ellen Parsons her granddaughter as they are off memory on the same census and then Mary is listed with the Parson on 1851 census. I then traced Emma Eeles and found her with her brother and father on the 1851 census and just to make it interesting I found her in two future census living with Stephen and Ann Knight Newbury, she is listed as cousin. I looked at Ann Knight first and it seems her maiden name was Paradise so possibly a niece of Mary Grubb? And just to add another twist she marries Stephen Knight in 1905 after her cousin Ann dies. On the census it says Stephen Knight was at one point Mayor of Newbury?
As I can't find much more on Mary Grubb née Paradise I'm at a bit of a dead end, although there may be one more clue for Mary on the 1861 census she is visiting a Thomas Puri, so when I did a quick search on him it comes up Roseanna Purs from Wiltshire who marries a John Grubb! So I'm wondering now if Thomas is Thomas Purs instead of Puri and maybe a sibling to Roseanna and that Mary is related to him through marriage into the Grub family?
So you can see how twisted this story has become but if the Eeles children's mother was perhaps either a Grubb or Paradise then at least I would be more certain that Joseph Wades wife Martha is in fact Martha Grubb.
Hope I haven't totally confused everyone.
Interestingly when Frederick Mayo Wade finishes his military career he ends up in Wiltshire living with Daisy's mother Isabella. So Wiltshire appears again.
As I can't find any baptism if anyone can help it would be much appreciated.
Blessings
Deb Rennie née Clark
Daisy marries Edward Clark from Stroud and they migrated to Australia with the first 7 of their 9 children after the First World War.
Sent from my iPad
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Hi Deb and welcome to Rootschat!
It's a bit early for me to get my head round all that info, I'll have another look later :)
However in the meantime it might be helpful to know Oakingham is now Wokingham.
Heather
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Thanks Heather :-) I do very much appreciate it's a lot to get your head around I was trying to explain it to my husband after a minute his eyes just glazed over ... I had lost him.
I had completely forgotten about the Oakingham/Wokingham change. As I'm in Australia I'm already lost as it is :-)
With my Gloucestershire family I can view the records online myself so can do quite a bit but am lost with the Berkshire side.
Thanks for your reply
Blessings
Deb
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Hi
Welcome to rootschat
Just listing the 1841 to make it clearer in my head
Newbury Berkshire
Joseph Wade age 38 occ Tailor - Not born in County
Martha 35(?) - Born in County
Frederick 8 - Not bn in County
Isabella 2 - Not born in County
/
Edwin Eales 8 - Born in County
Ernest 1 - Born in County
Where the 1841 shows Y / N it relates to the County not the Parish/Town where they are resident
Rosie
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What's annoying is that there's an Ernest Eeles b Newbury 1840Q1 6 228 in the old indexes but I can't get it to come up on the GRO search to find the mother's maiden name
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Yes Thanks Rosie that's them .... I thought for a long time Joseph was a Tailer ... turns out he was a Jailer ... the boys surname also seems to be Eeles. I think father is David if we could just work out who their mother is it migh confirm for me if Martha Wade is née Grubb.
Appreciate fresh eyes
Blessings
Deb
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Oh thanks Stevie ... that is frustrating! As it's probably one of the boys from that census and If we Knew who the mother was might answer a lot of questions.
I also think that maybe the Ellen Eeles from the 1841 cencus with Mary and John Grubb was an Eeles I think I found her again in 1851 as a pupil at a school. There were further children with David Eeles in 1851 so I don't know if he was widowed more than once?
Blessings
Deb
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Well, I've reported it as missing but with the below response, I'm not expecting anything anytime soon
Thank you for your query in regards to the online index, all reports will be investigated and where an error is found, we will update the Index to reflect the correct information. Updates to the indexes will be made on a weekly basis.
We want to ensure the accuracy of our online indexes but we are unfortunately unable to enter into any correspondence in respect of reported errors except for this acknowledgement of your report.
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Thank you for the effort Stevie ... it's like getting to the end of a good book and the last page is missing :-) hopefuly something will turn up
Bkessings
Deb
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What's annoying is that there's an Ernest Eeles b Newbury 1840Q1 6 228 in the old indexes but I can't get it to come up on the GRO search to find the mother's maiden name
Seems to be listed as Ernest ECLES. Got it searching on reference and phonetic for surname entered as Eeles - mmn Grubb
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I think I just found the second marriage for David Eeles widower in St Marylebone to Ann Stamers widow in 1862 his father is George Eeles and a witness is Henry Grubb. So he must have remaried after his first wife died if I could only figure out who she was?
Bkessings
Deb
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Hi Deb,
Was this your David Eeles in the 1851 census?
Abode: Brown Street, St George Hanover Sq Middlesex
David Ecles aged 39 born Newbury Berkshire Occ: Bricklayer, Lodger
also recorded, possibly his children:
Edwin aged 17 born Hants
Emma aged 13 born Newbury
Edward aged 12 born Newbury
Isabella aged 8 born Middlesex
Elizabeth aged 5 born Middlesex
Maxie aged 3 born Middlesex
If so there is a death reg for an Elizabeth Eeles aged 38 Dec Q 1850 St George Hanover Square which may be his wife
birth registrations for Elizabeth and Isabella born Middlesex:
ECLES, ISABELLA MMN GRUBB
GRO Reference: 1842 S Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01 Page 164
EELES, ELIZABETH MMN GRUBB
GRO Reference: 1845 J Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01
and another child:
EELES, CLARA ANN MMN GRUBB
GRO Reference: 1843 S Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01 Page 34
Death:
ECLES, CLARA ANN aged 3
GRO Reference: 1846 D Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01 Page 31
I wonder if Martha Wade (nee Grubb) born 1808 and Elizabeth Eeles (nee Grubb) born c1812 (assuming this is the wife of David) were sisters.
Have you managed to find David Eeles in the 1841 census?
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Well that's interesting and certainly would make sense ... and I do believe that David on that 1851 cencus is him. The four older children I found living with the Wades (1841 the boys) and the girls with Mary Grubb.
I've been trying to make the connection as I figured David's wife had to be either a Grubb or a Paradise because Emma Eeles in later cencus is living with Ann Knight her cousin and her maiden name was paradise.
Thanks so much I think you may be right I will go check it all out.
I haven't found David or his wife as yet in 1841 wonder where they were?
Thank you!
Blessings
Deb
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Also I've found a few trees with an Elizabeth Grubb born to John and Mary Grubb née Paradise and sister to Martha ... there is no record on them but she's listed so I think you may have solved the mystery!
Blessings
Deb
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I found this listed on a family tree for Elizabeth Grubb
13th May 1810
Berkshire BRO film MF 665
And something about an 1815 cencus pound st
Newbury Berkshire
This tree has Martha Grubb listed as well to John and Mary Grubb
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Hi everyone I managed to find another piece of the puzzle today ... after the Newbury 1841 cencus for Joseph and Martha Wade I find no more on them other than Their deaths in Ireland. Jospeh was buried with their daighter Martha Priscilla Wade in the Arbor Hill Military prison. Jospeh was a colour sergeant and prison guard. Today I found Martha Priscilla's baptism which was in St Helier Isle of Jersey 1842 with Joseph and Martha Grubb Wade. So I'm now confident that Martha Wade's maiden name was Grubb. Joseph is listed as Jailer so I presume there was a prison there somewhere.
There was another Wade family on the island at the same time a writer by the name of Thomas Wade. I have no idea if there is any connection to Jospeh.
Jospeh Wade remains a mystery as I haven't managed to find him on any other cencus apart from the 1841 Newbury one.
Thanks for the help.
Blessings
Deb Rennie
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Hi Deb
As I can't find much more on Mary Grubb née Paradise I'm at a bit of a dead end, although there may be one more clue for Mary on the 1861 census she is visiting a Thomas Puri, so when I did a quick search on him it comes up Roseanna Purs from Wiltshire who marries a John Grubb! So I'm wondering now if Thomas is Thomas Purs instead of Puri and maybe a sibling to Roseanna and that Mary is related to him through marriage into the Grub family?
The 1861 census for Mary Grubb records Thomas Puri as Thomas Prior on familysearch (see link below)
https://tinyurl.com/grrqks7
This looks like the same Thomas Prior in the 1851 census:
https://tinyurl.com/zamkkch
Do you have access to the actual images of the census record, if so it might be worth taking a look to see what you think?
Just a thought, I wonder if he was married to a sister of Mary Grubb (nee Paradise)
As your family seem to be in Newbury it's more than likely that they would be recorded in the Church records for St Nicolas Newbury which are mostly not online, Newbury library do have a copy of these records so next time I go to the library I will see what I can find for you.
Just in case you don't have these:
Burials: St Nicolas Newbury
Date:4th December 1820
Name: John Grubb
Age: 37
Date:3rd August 1864
Name: Mary Grubb
Age:83
Chris
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Thank you Chris I've looked again at the 1861 record ... it's really hard to tell if it's Prior and I can't find the written one for 1851 so ancestry must have it listed differently again. But I will have another look tomorrow. That's the problem with being in Australia can't just pop over and have a look :-).
For Joseph and Martha Wades two children on 1841 cencus it's says that aren't from Newbury and neither is Joseph. Frederick Mayo Wades future cencus records and military records say he's from Wokingham near Reading. I see that there was a Henry William Wade born in St Helier Jersey 1836 as was Martha Priscilla. There is also another son Charles Rodney and he was baptised in Ireland but I'm unsure where he was born as he he was baptised it says in 1859 Arbor Hill but birthday says 4th of March 1845? Henry William perhaps dies as he's not on 1841 cencus? Joseph is listed as widower on the marriage to Martha and so I have absolutely no idea where he's from? I wondered if the other Wades on Jersey were somehow Related. So I googled them and Thomas Wade seems to have been an Author and a poet and his wife a muscisian. So I just don't know ... Frederick Mayo Wade I'm told when he enlisted was likely a bugler and later in his years after military life (1901 Kingston on Thames) he's listed as a musician. So as you can see they are quite tricky to Track! I'm very thankful for your help and if you can find anything on them in Newbury records then I would be grateful as I'm sure this is where Martha's family are from as for Joseph he may remain a mystery. The Paradise family are also a bit elusive.
I'm sure Thomas Puri/Prior/Purs is somehow connected to Martha so will keep looking.
Blessings
Deb
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Chris ... the marriage record on find my past ... would the written one have more information? The marriage between Martha Grubb and Joseph Wade widower on 21st November 1831 by Banns st Nicolas Newbury Berkshire. Or would that be all? Perhaps you check when next able to?
Their son Frederick was born March 1832 Oakingham which I'm told is old name for Wokingham. So it seems they had to get married as Fred would have well and truly been on the way.
Joseph may remain a mystery as I can't find a record that actually says where he was from?
I thought they might show up on an Irish cencus seeing as he died there and his daughter Isabella married there although her first child was born in Canada as her husband was also a soldier and I guess that's what makes it difficult. at least Fred's records revealed where he was posted. Actually perhaps I could find out where and when his unit was between 1842 and 1863? They might give me some clues.
Blessings
Deb
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Hi Deb,
I don't think that the marriage record would show much more info, possibly witnesses names and the signitures or marks of the bride and groom but I will take a look for you (hopefully tomorrow).
Chris
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Hi Deb,
Some info for you (ALL FROM THE PARISH REGISTERS OF ST NICOLAS NEWBURY):
GRUBB FAMILY
John and Mary Grubb (nee Paradise) marry in 1806
Baptisms for their children:
Martha born 21st Sept and baptised 16th October 1808
Elizabeth born 17th April and baptised 13th May 1810
Maria born 30th July and baptised 20th August 1812
John baptised 24th July 1814 (abode: Bartholomew Street Newbury)
Ann baptised 3rd April 1816 (abode: Newbury)
Thomas baptised 14th March 1819 (abode: Newbury)
John, Mary and their eldest 4 children in Joseph Toomer’s census of Newbury in 1815:
Abode: Pound Street Newbury (South Side)
John Grubb aged 30 occ: Carpenter
Mary Grubb aged 30
Martha Grubb aged 6
Elizabeth Grubb aged 5
Maria Grubb aged 3
John (Infant)
Father John dies in 1820 aged 37
Then possibly another child born to Mary:
Baptism:25th April 1822 Louisa Grubb illegitimate daughter of Mary Grubb and Thomas Croft both of Newbury (father’s occ: Hairdresser)
Burial: 1st May 1822 Louisa Grubb aged 1 month
Parents of John Grubb:
Thomas Grubb born c1745 and Martha Gray born c1754
Marriage Banns: for this couple were 21st July 28th July and 4th August 1782
Baptism: 3rd August 1783 John Grubb son of Thomas and Martha Grubb
Thomas & Martha Grubb in the 1815 Toomers census:
Abode: Northbrook Street Newbury (Wash Side)
Thomas Grubb aged 66 (recorded in occ; column, Royal Oak, so possibly an Inn Keeper)
Martha Grubb aged 60
Elizabeth Grubb aged 10
Ann Stillman aged 15
Sergeant Miles
Mary Miles aged 34
Nicholas Miles aged 9
1 soldier billeted
Burials:
26th February 1819 Thomas Grubb aged 74
7th January 1820 Martha Grubb aged 66
Chris
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Hi Deb,
PARADISE FAMILY:
John Paridise born c1751 marries Mary Mayo born c1754
Marriage Banns for this couple: 4th, 11th, and 18th June 1780
Baptism: 17th January 1782 Sarah daughter of John & Mary Paradise
(Please note I could not check for any other baptisms after 1783 as there seems to be a gap between 1783- 1799 and I could not see a baptism for a Mary Paradise before 1783)
I strongly believe that John and Mary Paradise (nee Mayo) were the parents of Mary Paradise born c1781 as John and Mary's daughter Martha uses Mayo as Frederick's middle name.
Mary died in 1808 aged 54 and was buried on 20th December 1808
John Paradise in the Toomers 1815 census:
Abode: Bartholomew Street Newbury (West Side)
John Paradise aged 64
James Paradise aged 25
Maria Paradise aged 17
Maria Liddiard aged 22
John Paradise died 1834 aged 83 and was buried 14th January 1834
Hope the following answers some of your queries:
Quote
“ I then traced Emma Eeles and found her with her brother and father on the 1851 census and just to make it interesting I found her in two future census living with Stephen and Ann Knight Newbury, she is listed as cousin. I looked at Ann Knight first and it seems her maiden name was Paradise so possibly a niece of Mary Grubb? “
It looks like John and Mary Paradise also had a son John born c1794 who married Maria Liddiard (presumably the one living with the Paradise family in 1815) on 28th August 1815.
Children of this couple:
Baptisms;
25th Feb 1821 Elizabeth daughter of John & Maria Paradise of Newbury (father's occ: Shoemaker)
25th Dec 1823 Ann daughter of John & Maria Paradise of Newbury (father's occ: Cordwainer)<<<<
30th Apr 1828 Emily daughter of John & Maria Paridise of Newbury (father's occ: Shoemaker)
<<<<<<<<This Ann is the one who married Stephen Knight
Marriage details:
Groom: Stephen Knight, full age, Bachelor, occ: Tinman & Brazier
Bride: Anne Paradise,full age, Spinster
Grooms Father: William Knight occ: Wharfinger
Brides Father: John Paradise occ: Cordwainer
Witnesses: William Knight and Elizabeth Edwell (her sister, she married Henry Edwin Edwell in 1846)
Baptisms:
17th July 1835 Emma Ann Eeles daughter of David & Elizabeth Eeles of Newbury (fathers occ: Bricklayer)
24th July 1836 Ellen Ann daughter of David & Elizabeth Eeles of Newbury (fathers occ: Bricklayer)
As I suspected the marriage record for Joseph Wade and Martha Grubb does not reveal much it's very poor quality and difficult to read but if you would like me to send it to you perhaps you could private message me an email address.
Chris
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Chris ..... I just logged in to find you've posted all this information! For some reason I didn't get the usual email letting me know or I've missed it somehow! I'm sorry about that ... thank you!! I haven't read it all yet but will now and write a proper response. Thank you!
Blessings
Deb
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Chris ... I can't thank you enough! I'm so excited by all you've found ... and as soon as I saw that name Mayo ... I knew this is the right family I always suspected that Mayo was someone's surname and you've solved that mystery!! So many pieces of the puzzle have come together. i can't wait to transfer all of that over to my family tree.
I've written to the kings royal riffle group to see if they might be able to help me with Jospeh Wade as he still remains a mystery, if only I could find his military papers that might hold a clue as to where he is from. I find he and Martha are in St Helier Jersey at least twice once in 1836 which is for the baptising of Henry William Wade and it included a God Father William Knott which when I looked into him I found Joseph Wade was a witness at his wedding and it notes he was a Serg Major of the 2nd battalion of the Kings Royal Rifles which I know both Joseph and his son Fredrick Mayo were with that company. Martha Wade is also then listed as God Mother to William Knott junior in 1837. Little Henry William must die as he's not with them on the Newbury 1841 cencus. I know then that the Wades spend time in Ireland as that is where Joseph and I'm pretty sure Martha are now buried. But looking at information that says where the 2nd battalion of the Kings Royal Rifle were ... they were all over the place. Joseph and Martha have at least one more son Charles Rodney Wade it's his note book my great grandmother Daisy Wade bought to Australia ... I'm pretty sure I've found him also enlisted and I think he's buried in India. So on one hand if you are lucky enough to find their military papers you can learn a lot ... Frederick Mayo always on his military papers said he was born in Wokingham near Reading ... pretty sure Martha was already expecting him when he was born. His sister that appears on the 1841 cencus Isabella Caroline Wade also marries a soldier in Dublin and has at least two children one born in Canada but after military life settle in Ireland. I do have to wonder if Joseph wasn't Irish? I will keep digging :-)
But for now I'm ever so excited by all you've found! Thank you! It's like being given a treasure box and now I must go examine each piece :-)
Blessings
Deb
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Chris ... one more PS ... my dad and myself have a DNA match to family that we have thought all along is via the Mayo family his ancestor was John Totty Mayo born 1777 Newbury Berkshire .. so now I'm positive we are in the right track ... I'm sure our Mary Mayo that you discovered is related to John Totty Mayo .. so I shall have a dig and see what I can find. That will another mystery solved and DNA to prove it :-)
Thank you!!!!
Deb
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Oops I think that is supposed to be John Potley Mayo. His parents are Daniel and Ann Mayo .. Daniel's birth is 1749 ... so he would be closer in age to Mary Mayo ... perhaps she's his sister? Either way I have a DNA match to this family. :-)
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Chris ... can I ask you one more favour ...next time you are looking at records .. can you take a look at Mary Mayo? Was the birth you gave for me from her burial or do you know who her parents were.
I don't think I'm going to get any further with Joseph Wade unless I can find his military records which to date I haven't been able to find.
So I thought I would now see if I can work out the DNA connection to the John Totty Mayo family. There are some with John Potley Mayo so I'm now thinking these are different men?
But I've also found a Thomas Totty Mayo and guess what he's a prison Warder ....
So quite the mystery.
So I wasn't sure if with what you had found for me included Mary Mayo's parents?
You've already done so much so I don't want to be a bother ..
Blessings
Deb
I haven't figured out how to private message you so as to not be an annoyance to everyone else :-)
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Hi Deb,
No bother.
The date I gave you for Mary Mayo's birth was an approximate year worked out from the burial.
This looks like her baptism: (once again all info from parish registers for St Nicolas Church Newbury)
1st March 1752 Mary daughter of Totty & Sarah Mayo
siblings:
21st November 1749 John son of Totty & Sarah Mayo (possible burial 3/2/1753 (a child))
30th August 1754 Sarah daughter of Totti & Sarah Mayo (possible burial 20/3/1757 (a child))
14th June 1758 Sarah daughter of Totty & Sarah Mayo
13th July 1760 Elizabeth daughter of Totty & Sarah Mayo
Marriage: (please note this record is a transcribed record not the original record)
Date: 5th December 1745
Groom: Tote Mayo
Bride: Sarah Poor
No baptism found for Tote/Totty/Totti Mayo in these church records.
No baptism found for a Daniel Mayo but there is a gap in the baptism records between 1746-1748 so it's possible he may have been another sibling of Mary Mayo's who was born/baptised sometime between these dates.
Also, there was a baptism record for a Totty Mayo in the index of the baptisms but the actual page (no. 7) was missing (pages 1-7 missing) so I could not see any details for him but feel sure he was another sibling of Mary Mayo's, baptised before John Mayo in 1749.
Hope this helps!
Chris
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Wow! Chris thank you!! I'm very appreciative of your time and effort ... hopefully with all this I can connect the dots. I will let you know how I get on.
Thank you thank you 😊
Blessings
Deb
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Familysearch has baptism of a Totty Mayo in Salisbury, Wilts on 26 Dec 1723 s/o Thomas Mayo and Dinah. Date is about right for a 1745 marriage, but I wonder if Salisbury is a bit far from Newbury.
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And a Thomas Mayo married a Dinah Medhurst on 24 Feb 1721 at Fisherton Anger, Wilts.
There is a baptism for a Catherine Mayo in Salisbury with same parents as Totty in 1722.
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Familysearch has baptism of a Totty Mayo in Salisbury, Wilts on 26 Dec 1723 s/o Thomas Mayo and Dinah. Date is about right for a 1745 marriage, but I wonder if Salisbury is a bit far from Newbury.
Just noticed that this Totty is down as female - so not the right one
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Probably a coincidence but a Thomas Mayo of Corsley and Catherine Totty of Frome married at Upton Scudamore on 6 Mar 1693.
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Thank you Lizzie ... I shall check them all out.
It does seem that the Totty Mayo born before 1748 is the father of Thomas Totty Mayo 1790 and he also has a son Thomas Totty Mayo born abt 1823 and in the 1861 cencus he's listed as a warder ... which may tie into the Wade family as Jospeh Wade was listed as a Jailor although he was military as well
I'm still piecing it all together :-)
Blessings
Deb
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Chris ... pieces seem to be coming together another member of the Mayo family that I've been in touch with descend from the Totty Mayo born abt 1748 so before John Mayo that you mention. He is the one I mentioned who has a son Thomas Totty Mayo 1790 ... the family I have a DNA match to is a John Totty Mayo born abt 1777 married to Mary and has a son William Mayo.
So I'm thinking it could be possible that John Totty Mayo 1777 might be older brother of Thomas Totty Mayo 1790. As Totty Mayo (abt 1748) marries Amy North 1772.
Hope I'm making sense.
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Hi Lizzie and Deb,
Perhaps the Totty Mayo baptised in 1723 was mistakenly recorded as female. If the record was recorded as d of (for daughter of) or s of (for son of) the letter S could have been mistaken for the letter D.
Quote
"Probably a coincidence but a Thomas Mayo of Corsley and Catherine Totty of Frome married at Upton Scudamore on 6 Mar 1693."
To much of a coincidence perhaps!
Upton Scudamore is only about 4 miles from Corsley so it's possible that Thomas Mayo and Catherine Totty married in 1693, had a son Thomas, who then married Dinah Medhurst in 1721.
The Mayo family do not seen to appear in the St Nicolas church records beween 1710-1745 until Tote Mayo's marriage to Sarah Poor.
Chris
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Deb,
Do you know if John Totty Mayo born c1777 was born in Newbury?
Chris
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Perhaps the Totty Mayo baptised in 1723 was mistakenly recorded as female. If the record was recorded as d of (for daughter of) or s of (for son of) the letter S could have been mistaken for the letter D.
If the original records were in latin then filius and filia look similar.
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Just as a side note ... Frederick Mayo Wade is buried in Wiltshire ... his daughter Isabella (my great grandmothers ... mother) is living there in 1901 ... I assumed Frederick moved there after his wife Harriet dies so I suppose it's possible there were members of the Mayo family there too?
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Chris ... according to the family tree in question he was but there is no record just his name with 1777 Newbury Berkshire?
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Ok Deb, next time I go to the library I'll see if I can find a baptism for him.
Chris
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Thank you :-) according to his tree he has John Totty Mayo 1777 he marries Mary and they have a son William Mayo born 1813 Wantage Berkshire? William marries Mary Butson 1839 and has several children including another John Totty Mayo Berskshire Newbury Berkshire 1839 then Mary, Sarah and William all born in Newbury. He then descends from William (1844)
Blessings
Deb
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Oh .. Chris ... would those records show baptisms for Wokingham? I've never found a baptism for Frederick Mayo Wade ... I only know by his military records he states he was born 1832 near Reading Berkshire?
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Chris & Lizzie
Just another quick thank you for all your help yesterday ... it was quite late here in Australia so am digesting it all this morning and I do think between the two of you that you are in the right track. The Wiltshire connection seems to make sense especially if the Mayo family are not in Newbury earlier. And Totty Mayo seems more appropriate for a male. I've added them in for now to see where it might lead.
The other thing I remember when filling in my great grandfathers side is that his history is very much in the Gloucestershire region and he has a lot of watermen and bargemasters etc plus landowners in Westbury. Fortunately a lot of them left wills which made it easier to put families together. But when I was looking at Westbury and other areas of Gloucestershire baptisms etc there were quite a few Mayo families in there too. I only noticed them because of Frederick Mayo Wades name.
So wish I could ask them in person :-)
I can't thank you both enough for all your help as it's just too far from here to pop down and check out the records :-)
Oh and I found another possible child for Thomas and Dina ... Elizabeth Mayo 1726 fisherton ... father Thomas Mayo.
Blessings
Deb
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Found something else interesting today ... found an Elinor Totty marrying John Hinchman in 1677 Salisbury Wiltshire ... so I'm guessing the Catherine Totty marrying Thomas Mayo in 1693 might be a relative as their granddaughter Catherine Mayo is buried in Salisbury 1722. I've just found a will for a John Totty 1698 and it mentions his daughter Elinor married to John Hinchman. There is also a daughter Catherine Totty to be left a sum when she comes of age. So not sure if this is same Catherine as there would be quite an age gap?
But will see if I can decipher some more.
Deb
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Oops got will date wrong sorry it's 1681
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I also found a baptism for a Katharen Totty 1665 to John and Margaret Totty - Sailsbury. In the will there is mention if a daughter Margaret Totty as well. So I'm assuming this is the Katherine/katharen mentioned in the will ... I suppose it could be the Catherine Totty Married to Thomas Mayo? But as it's not the written record hard to know how it's meant to be spelt? Plus she would be a bit older than I had guessed?
But I am thinking that this is possibly where Totty Mayo gets his name?
Thanks again!
Deb
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Hi Deb,
Just a quick login with some more info for you: (I'm at the Library as I'm having technical trouble with my network at the moment).
Baptisms for children of Totty and Amey Mayo:
23rd April 1775 Ann Mayo
4th May 1777 John Totty Mayo
14th June 1778 Sarah Mayo
In answer to your query no, a copy of the parish records for Wokingham are not held at the Newbury Library but at the BERKSHIRE RECORDS OFFICE.
It might be worth posting a separate query on this Berkshire board to see if anyone would be willing to do a lookup for you if they are going to the Berkshire records office re: Frederick Mayo Wade's baptism. (sorry but I live to far away to help you with that one)
Chris
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Thanks once again Chris you've done so much I'm very appreciative.
So now I'm wondering if this Totty and Amey Mayo is the Totty Mayo and Amy North married 1772
The other family that I've been chatting too - I've sent her the link to this site ... Totty and Amy Mayo they have a son Thomas Totty Mayo 1790.
Is this the same family do you think?
Thanks again I take your advice in regards to Frederick Mayo's baptism :-)
I hope I haven't over worked you!
Blessings
Deb
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The Family I have a DNA match to with John Totty Mayo 1777
Has him then married to Mary with a son William 1813 Wantage Berkshire (I have no idea where that is)
(All the rest are Newbury)
William Mayo then marries Mary Butson
Children
John Totty Mayo 1839
Mary Mayo 1840
Sarah Mayo 1842
William Mayo 1844
They are all on an 1851 census
But I'm unsure where he got his information for William born in Wantage? So I can't be sure now if his tree is correct? Although the cencus has William from Wantage but he doesn't have a baptism for William with parents John Totty ... but William has a son with that name?
So I'm still a bit lost .. hope that makes sense ... so many John Totty Mayo's making my head spin!
Blessings
Deb
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I found on find my past
A baptisim for William 5th March 1813 Wantage
To John and Mary Mayo
Perhaps this is them ... just doesn't have the Totty in there but William names his son John Totty
So will have to just assume it's correct :-)
Blessings
Deb
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Hi,
A baptisim for William 5th March 1813 Wantage
To John and Mary Mayo
Using the transcripts for Wantage (ex OxfordFHS) the record is ;
5-3-1813 Mayo, Aron?, s/o John & Mary, Carpenter, of Wantage (Born 18th Feb)
No other baptisms listed prior to 1813
Alan
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Thanks Allen ... that's not even close then ... so the one on find my past is incorrect?
So still leaves a question as to who William Mayo from Wantage is? On the 1851 cencus it says William Mayo from Wantage. And he has a son John Totty Mayo.
It's like you solve one mystery and get two more :-)
Blessings
Deb
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Hi,
You could contact the Berks Records Office here;
http://www.berkshirerecordoffice.org.uk/family-history/parish-register-guide/?letter=w#results (they hold the actual registers) and get them to check the original register especially as their is a ?marke after Aron. An error may have been made in transcribing.
Alan
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Hi Deb,
Quote:
"So now I'm wondering if this Totty and Amey Mayo is the Totty Mayo and Amy North married 1772
The other family that I've been chatting too - I've sent her the link to this site ... Totty and Amy Mayo they have a son Thomas Totty Mayo 1790.
Is this the same family do you think? "
More that likely the same Amy & Totty. I could not check for the baptism of Thomas Totty Mayo as the baptisms between 1783-1799 seem to be missing, they may be available to view at the Berkshire records office though.
The only other baptism for a Mayo child between 1745 and 1760 was this one:
20/6/1759 Dinah Mayo illegitimate daughter of Mary Witstone or Wilstone and the reputed father Thomas Mayo
The two possible burials for the children (John 1753 and Sarah 1757) of Totty and Sarah Mayo were correct as I looked the original records up and on both records it states child of Totty Mayo.
It might also be worth contacting the Wiltshire records office
http://www.wshc.eu/our-services/archives.html
to ask them if they could check the original baptism record for Totty Mayo (1723) to confirm what sex this child was for you.
Another child for Thomas Mayo:
Totty Mayo
Date: 1695
Father: Thomas Mayo
Place: Corsley
"Probably a coincidence but a Thomas Mayo of Corsley and Catherine Totty of Frome married at Upton Scudamore on 6 Mar 1693."
Chris
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Thanks again Chris for all your help and advice. Will write some emails to those contacts this coming week and let you know what I find.
I did find a more detailed record for the marriage of a Totty Mayo and Amy North it list his occupation as a Gent?
I also found a second page for the will of a John Totty ... With a daughter Katherine ... so I will try and See if any names pop up in that that might confirm or cross off as the possible family where the Totty name came from.
Blessings
Deb
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Hi Deb,
A couple of possibilities for you:
There is a burial for a Dina Mayo 11th Dec 1770 (no age given) in the St Nicolas Church registers and it records that she was the wife of Thomas Mayo, so it looks like this could have been Dinah Mayo (nee Medhurst) and two burials either of which might be her husband. Thomas Mayo 26th May 1782 or Thomas Mayo 4th Feb 1789 (again no ages given)
I did wonder about this baptism for Dinah Medhurst (allowing for pronouncation variances)
Place: Fisherton Anger
Date: 20th June 1694
Name: Dina Medus
Father: Edward Medus
Mother's maiden name: Dines
Also Wantage is approximately 15 miles north of Newbury
Chris
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Thank you Chris ... you been such a help! I will add those to my notes and does sound like Her burial ... it's so much more helpful when they wrote their age or who they belonged too. Probably never new we would cine along hundreds of years later trying to work out who they all belong too.
I found a more detailed marriage for Totty Mayo and Amy North in 1772 and it has his occupation as a gent ... what would this have meant back then?
Blessings
Deb
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Hi Deb,
I was doing some research at the library for someone else today and found the baptisms that I thought were missing (1783-1799) so looked to see if I could find Thomas Totty Mayo c1790 son of Totty and Amy Mayo but there was not one for him. The only other baptism for this couple was a son William Thomas Mayo born 4/8/1785 baptised 1/2/1786. So unless Totty and Amy Mayo had a son Thomas Totty and didn't have him baptised or left the parish and had him baptised elsewhere and then came back it looks like this man wasn't John Totty Mayo's (born c1777) brother.
I think that Gent is probably an abbreviation for Gentleman and not an actual occupation, so Totty was probably financially able to keep himself and or his family without actually working.
Chris
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Thank you Chris ... wow that will be a disappointment for the other family ... I wonder who he might belong too or if as you've suggested they have his name wrong. There is a Thomas Totty Mayo 1823 Newbury Berkshire ... he's the one that is a prison warder in 1851 and is who the other family descend from so perhaps his father is William Thomas? And not Thomas Totty? I had a quick look at her tree and he has a son William Thomas Mayo in 1848. I've added these to my tree until I could sort it out.
Maggie is the name of the lady I've been chatting too and I did get her to join Roots Chat but she may not have figured out how to reply.
I shall let her know your findings ... perhaps if we can find her Thomas Totty from 1823 it might solve the mystery she has his wife as Mary Ann Goodyear.
Thank you!
Blessings
Deb
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Although there is a death for Thomas Totty Mayo senior in 1848 Newbury Berkshire
Another mystery!
Blessings
Deb
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Although I'm seeing other trees have the Thomas Totty Mayo that died in 1848 as an infant born the same year to Thomas Totty Mayo and Mary Ann Goodyear so it was perhaps just an assumption this was Thomas Totty senior.
Blessings
Deb
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Chris ... big ask as you've done so much already but next time you are back there ... would those found missing records perhaps have Mary Paradise (abt 1781) baptism the one that you couldn't find but we believed she belonged to John and Mary paradise? In case she was younger than we thought?
Here's your note to remember
Please note I could not check for any other baptisms after 1783 as there seems to be a gap between 1783- 1799 and I could not see a baptism for a Mary Paradise before 1783)
I strongly believe that John and Mary Paradise (nee Mayo) were the parents of Mary Paradise born c1781 as John and Mary's daughter Martha uses Mayo as Frederick's middle name.
Blessings
Deb
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Oh and one last thing ... if Totty Mayo was financially comfortable that might tie into the Wiltshire family of Katheren/Katherine Totty Maried to Thomas Mayo - as she was the one left a tidy sum from her father John Totty. I also noted that Thomas And Dina Mayo name their first daughter Catherine.
Just a guess but seems to fit ... just not sure why they moved to Newbury that might remain a mystery :-)
Blessings
Deb
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Hi Deb,
Info for Thomas Totty Mayo born c1823:
Baptism:
Date 31/3/1823
Name: Thomas Totty Mayo
Parents: John Totty and Mary Mayo
Father's Occ: Cabinet Maker
This might be him with his parents in the 1841 census:
https://tinyurl.com/hkeflg8
It looks like he married Mary Goodyear in Scotland in 1846 the name Totty mistakenly recorded as Fatty
https://tinyurl.com/h6bk7g2
This looks like him with his family in 1851
https://tinyurl.com/zqwkc6t
here are the birth registrations for the two children show in the 1851 census:
MAYO, JOHN TOTTY Mother's Maiden Mame GOODYEAR
GRO Reference: 1851 M Quarter in STOKE DAMEREL Volume 09 Page 503
MAYO, WILLIAM THOMAS Mother's Maiden Name GOODYEAR
GRO Reference: 1849 M Quarter in OF ST AUBYN IN THE COUNTY OF DEVON Volume 09 Page 494 Occasional Copy: A
I can't see him in 1861 but this looks like him in the 1871 census:
https://tinyurl.com/jbytmp4
His death:
https://tinyurl.com/hbwhsy5
Re: The death for Thomas Totty Mayo in 1848, this wasn't the son of Thomas Totty and Mary Mayo (nee Goodyear) their son was born and died in Devon in 1847. The Thomas Totty Mayo that died and was buried in 1848 in Newbury was 2 yrs old. I think that this might be his birth reg as the age fits but no middle name of Totty:
MAYO, THOMAS Mother's Maiden Name BUTSON
GRO Reference: 1846 M Quarter in NEWBURY Volume 06 Page 232
I will see if I can find any clue as to who his parents were next time I'm in town and also look for the baptism for Mary Paradise.
Sorry Deb, I completely forgot to give you this link earlier, re: a query I posted about Joseph and Martha Wade's marriage record:
https://tinyurl.com/gluod6y
Chris
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Quote from my post above:
"I will see if I can find any clue as to who his parents were next time I'm in town and also look for the baptism for Mary Paradise. "
Quote from a previous post of yours:
"Thank you :-) according to his tree he has John Totty Mayo 1777 he marries Mary and they have a son William Mayo born 1813 Wantage Berkshire? William marries Mary Butson 1839 and has several children including another John Totty Mayo Berskshire Newbury Berkshire 1839 then Mary, Sarah and William all born in Newbury. He then descends from William (1844)"
So Thomas Totty Mayo born 1846 died 1848 in Newbury was probably the son of William & Mary Mayo (nee Butson) shown in the Quote above.
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Can't believe how wondefully helpful you've been!
Another mystery solved ... but then who is John Mayo and Mary Mayo? With the use of the Totty middle name John must fit in somewhere? Goodness they are a puzzle!
Will go and rearrange my tree :-) but will leave John Mayo parentless for now.
Thank you!
Blessings
Deb
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Which John Mayo are you referring to? Do you mean the John & Mary Mayo in the 1841 census that I have posted with son Thomas Living in Mills West Newbury?
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Yes I think so ... as we've got the wrong parents for Thomas Totty Mayo 1823 the one married to Mary Ann Good Year ... so now his parents are John and Mary Mayo ... I need to figure out who John belongs to To see if I can tie it together with the other Mayo families with a Totty in them ... oh dear does that make sense?
Blessings
Deb
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I think that this John Mayo maybe John Totty Mayo c 1777 son of Totty & Amy Mayo (nee North). (Baptism for Thomas Totty Mayo records his father as John Totty Mayo)
If you have access to census images can you look up this 1841 census and see what occupation is recorded for John Mayo please?
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Oh and in 1861 he's with the family in Devon as a prison warden but they have him as Thomas Lotty Mayo but with Mary Ann and they chikdren
Which is what drew me to him in the first place ... was the prison job ... seeing as that was what Jospeh Wade was.
I'm sure these puzzle pieces will meet up sooner or later :-)
Blessings
Deb
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Ahhh! Well that would make sense
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Seems I've missed that one off the tree all together!
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I can't find it in ancestry (the 1841 census) but I have on find my past and it looks like sexon but that doesn't make sense ... how can I send you a copy?
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Not to worry, I was hoping that it would give either Carpenter or Cabinet Maker as John's occupation, no such luck!
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What on earth is a sexon? I could be reading it wrong
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link to the meaning of Sexton:
https://tinyurl.com/h6gbg58
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This looks like John Totty Mayo in 1851:
https://tinyurl.com/jb7594o
Can you see if you can find this census and see if there is anybody else in the same household please?
(I think an....ry has him recorded as John Potley Mayo)
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On ancestry it's only John Potley or Polly ... hard to tell but looks like it starts with a P and Mary they are in an almshouse and he is a shoemaker?
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does it say where Mary was born?
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Transcription says New York Wiltshire :-). But the written is hard to read as it has a bit of a line through it. But it looks nothing like Wiltshire
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So now I think my DNA match family tree is out too as this is the one from this family ... and as our John Totty Mayo marries in 1820 I don't think they had a William in Wantage in 1813. So I think his tree is also incorrect .... yikes!
Quote from my post above:
Quote from a previous post of yours:
"Thank you :-) according to his tree he has John Totty Mayo 1777 he marries Mary and they have a son William Mayo born 1813 Wantage Berkshire? William marries Mary Butson 1839 and has several children including another John Totty Mayo Berskshire Newbury Berkshire 1839 then Mary, Sarah and William all born in Newbury. He then descends from William (1844)"
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Sorry Deb, I'm a bit cofused, where did you get our John Totty Mayo marries in 1820 from?
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Have I got this right?
I think your ancestor Mary Mayo born c1752 is the sister of Totty Mayo born c1747 both children of Totty Mayo born c1723 and Sarah Poor who married in 1745 and therefore is the Aunt of John Totty Mayo born c1777
John Totty Mayo c1777 was the son of Totty Mayo c1747 and Amy Mayo (nee North)
I think this is the father of both William Mayo born c1813 Wantage and also Thomas Totty Mayo c1823 in Newbury
I also suspect that both the 1841 and 1851 census for John Mayo c1777 with wife Mary are John Totty Mayo even though the occupations differ.
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I'm so sorry Chris I must be doing your head in as we say :-) it is so confusing.
I think where I've tripped myself up is that John Totty Mayo b 1777 who married Mary .... I think I've looked at a tree that has their marriage in 1820 but there is nothing to support this so maybe it's a guess so when I see William Mayo from Wantage b 1813 I thought well he can be theirs or he would have been born before they were married.
What I will do tomorrow is type it all in a tree form along with any baptism dates you've given me and see how it looks and I will make a note of any that we don't have records for baptisim like William from Wantage.
You must be sick of me by now :-). Mine all seem to be neat and tidy other than we are just guessing for Mary Paradise but considering her grandson is Frederick Mayo Wade I think it's a pretty good guess without her baptisim. The rest I'm just trying to see where they fit to my tree like my DNA match fellow.
But I shall do that tomorrow so we can have a good look.
Blessings
Deb
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Ok here goes this is what we have so far ... so I'm working with 2 other families ... mine is pretty simple with the discovery of Mary Mayo - although no baptisim found at this point but good assumption based in her grandsons name Frederick Mayo Wade. I've made notes where the other two families descend from. So I hope this helps makes sense
Thomas Mayo & Katheren Totty (possible start of Berkshire Mayo family)
Married 1693 Wiltshire
Children
Thomas Mayo 1693 - fisherton Anger Wiltshire
Totty Mayo 1695 - Corsley Wiltshire
Thomas Mayo (1693) married Dina Medhurst in Fisherton Anger Wiltshire 1721
Children
Catherine Mayo 1722 - 1722 Salisbury Wiltshire
Totty Mayo dec 1723 (listed as female but more likely male)
Elizabeth Mayo 14 Nov 1726 fisherton Anger Wiltshire (no mother listed just Thomas so just assumption at this point)
Totty Mayo 1722 marries Sarah Poor in 1745 Newbury Berkshire
Children
Totty Mayo abt 1749 - 1807 (this was notes for Totty - Also, there was a baptism record for a Totty Mayo in the index of the baptisms but the actual page (no. 7) was missing (pages 1-7 missing) so I could not see any details for him but feel sure he was another sibling of Mary Mayo's, baptised before John Mayo in 1749.Also, there was a baptism record for a Totty Mayo in the index of the baptisms but the actual page (no. 7) was missing (pages 1-7 missing) so I could not see any details for him but feel sure he was another sibling of Mary Mayo's, baptised before John Mayo in 1749.)
John Mayo 1749 - 1753
Mary Mayo 1752 - 1808 (my ancestor) who Marries John Paradise
Sarah Mayo 1754 - 1757
Sarah Mayo 1758
Elizabeth Mayo 1760 not sure where we got this one as I can't see a record
Totty Mayo bef 1749 (this is the Mayo related to the other two family trees I'm trying to help) marries Amy North 1772
Children
Ann Mayo April 1775
John Totty Mayo 1777
Sarah Mayo 1778
William Thomas Mayo 1785
John Totty Mayo marries Mary?
Children
Possibly William 1814 Wantage?
Thomas Totty Mayo 1823
William Mayo 1814 marries Mary Butson 1838 this is from DNA match tree)
Children
John Totty Mayo 1839 - 1903
Mary Mayo 1840
Sarah Mayo 1842
William Mayo 1844
Thomas Totty Mayo 1823 marries Mary Ann Goodyear in Scotland 1846 (this is Maggies family tree)
Children
Thomas Totty Mayo 1847-1847 - Devon
William Thomas Mayo 1848-1931 Devon
John Totty Mayo 1851-1916 Devon
Ellen Wilmot Mayo 1853 Devon
Charles Henry Mayo 1859-1934 Devon
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Hi Deb,
So, we need to confirm:
Mary Paradise born c1781 was the daughter of John & Mary Paradise (nee Mayo)
William Mayo's (born Wantage c1813) father was John Totty Mayo born c1777.
I had a look at the 1815 census to see if there were any Mayo's living in Newbury and the only ones were:
Abode: Red Lion Yard (West Side of Northbrook Street) Newbury
Amy Mayo aged 75 occ: Bookseller <<<<<<<<(nee North)
William Mayo aged 29 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Totty and Amy's son William Thomas born1785
No John/John Totty Mayo or family. (maybe because they were living in Wantage)
Did you say that Maggie had Thomas Totty Mayo's (born Newbury 1823) father as Thomas Totty Mayo, is so please could you ask her where this info came from?
Chris
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Interesting! Thanks Chris well I guess that would explain Williams birth not being in Newbury.
And yes that would be great if we could confirm those births.
I've emailed Maggie she was away for the week end so will get back to me ... I think her info wasn't conclusive ... and I think you are correct in that Thomas Totty Mayo 1823 is son of John Totty Mayo.
What a puzzle it's been thanks so much for helping us put it together.
My sister is visiting her inkaws in Gloucestershire at the moment so I'm very jealous she gets to be over there ... and although she's going to visit a few of the places our ancestors lived she doesn't quite share my love of seeking them all out :-)
Probably just as well I don't live over there I would Spend all day looking them up!
blessings
Deb
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Is Northbrook street a long street? Is the red lion yard another Inn? Just thought it was interesting that the Grubb family are living in this street at the same time as Amy Mayo née North and her son William. I found an 1841 census for an Arthur North publican in Northbrook st Newbury (much younger of course) ...so wondered if Amy's family might have been publicans and after her husband dies lives with them?
Thomas Grubbs son John Marries Mary Paradise daughter of John and Mary Paradise née Mayo .. and their daughter Martha Grubb marries the elusive Joseph Wade. Also John Grubb is a carpenter... which you said the baptisim of Thomas Totty Mayo son of John Totty Mayo .... son of Totty And Amy Mayo née North was listed as a carpenter? Connection maybe?
So Amy is (if we are correct) Mary's sister in law
EDIT
Census
1815 Toomers cencus • Abode: Northbrook Street Newbury (Wash Side
Thomas Grubb aged 66 (recorded in occ; column, Royal Oak, so possibly an Inn Keeper) Martha Grubb aged 60 Elizabeth Grubb aged 10 Ann Stillman aged 15, Sergeant Miles Mary Miles aged 34 Nicholas Miles aged 9 1 soldier billeted
1815
Abode: Pound Street Newbury (South Side)
John Grubb aged 30 occ: Carpenter
Mary Grubb aged 30
Martha Grubb aged 6
Elizabeth Grubb aged 5
Maria Grubb aged 3
John (Infant)
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Is Northbrook street a long street? Is the red lion yard another Inn?
Northbrook St is not particularly long - just over 50 houses/shops each side.
Red Lion Yard was the street/yard behind a pub - now called Pembroke Road. There was another pub (the Grapes) in Red Lion Yard, but later, 1840s, by when it had become the Rose & Thistle Yard.
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Thanks Newbury Chap ... so how far would rhe Royal Oak have been? I found it interesting that they had a soldier billeted there in 1815.
Martha Grubb (1808 newbury) my 4 x great grandmother married Joseph Wade who was with the military and so they moved around quite a bit but were in Newbury in 1841 which is how we've managed with help here to work out who Martha is ... but Joseph is a mystery as he died in service and is buried in Ireland I've been told quite often if they die in service their records are destroyed so I have no idea where he's from.
Blessings
Deb
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It depends how far down the Red Lion yard they were - the Royal Oak was perhaps 50yards north of the Red Lion.
Arthur North was landlord of the Rose & Thistle (1841-1846), this was the Red Lion until the mid 1820s.
Pubs very often had soldiers billeted on them - one Newbury pub even had an outbuilding called The Barracks. As they didn't know the name of the soldier he was probably only there for one night - when troops were moving around the country they had a right to demand accomodation for the night in any pub.
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Hi Deb,
Quote
"So, we need to confirm:
Mary Paradise born c1781 was the daughter of John & Mary Paradise (nee Mayo)
William Mayo's (born Wantage c1813) father was John Totty Mayo born c1777."
Mariage details for William Mayo born Wantage c1813;
Date: 19th March 1838
Place: St Nicolas Church Newbury
Groom: William Mayo, of Full Age, Bachelor, Occ: Servant, of Newbury
Bride: Mary Butson, of Full Age, Spinster, of Newbury
Groom's Father: John Totty Mayo, occ: Sexton of this parish<<<<<<<<<<
Bride's Father: Amos Butson, occ: Coachman
Witnesses: John Mayo and John Totty Mayo
Both Bride and Groom signed their names
<<<<<<<<<<<<<same occ: as recorded in 1841 census where Thomas Mayo born c1823 is recorded in the household with John & Mary Mayo (his parents)
So William Mayo born c1813 Wantage and Thomas Totty Mayo born 1823 Newbury were brothers and the children of John Totty and Mary Mayo.
The following are baptisms for children of John & Mary Paradise who married in 1780:
Baptisms from Oct 1783- 1794
30/8/1786 James (born 4/11/1785)
24/6/1787 Elizabeth (born 1/6/1787)
22/3/1789 Dinah (born 13/2/1789)
3/4/1791 John
2/7/1794 Mariah (born 6/6/1794)
I could not find a baptism for Mary Paradise though but it's possible that she could have been born either before Sarah in 1782 or between Sarah 1782 and James born in Nov 1785 and not baptised in St Nicolas, but elsewhere.
Chris
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Wow Chris we shall have to name you Sherlock :-)
Pity about Mary Paradise but there's so much other supporting eveidence to not think she belongs ... including my DNA match to the descendant of William Mayo (the one you just confirmed) plus Mary Paradises granddaughter names her son Frederick Mayo Wade. So even though at this point no baptisim I still think you are correct.
Also interesting that John and Mary Paradise née Mayo name one of their daighters Dinah which to me suggests Mary Mayo's grandmother was Dinah Mayo née Medhurst from Sailsbury Wiltshire.
So thank you Chris for helping me and the other two families untangle our ancestors ... now I just need to find out who Joseph Wade was! But I've been told the only other thing to do for him is get paid research at Kew to see if he's on muster rolls although that still probably won't tell me where he was from.
Thank you ever so much!
Blessings
Deb
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Thank you Newbury Chap ... that's very interesting and I shall pass that on to the desandants of Amy Mayo née North as that does suggest Arthur is somehow related to Amy. They might be able to work that out. It's also interesting too that Amy Norths sister in Law Mary Paradise née Mayo ... her husbands father Thomas Grubb is the one at the Royal Oak in 1815 so perhaps another connection between the two families.
I also found on an 1861 census record Mary Grubb née Paradise visiting a fellow that there is a bit of a mystery surrounding his last name but he's listed as a Malter ... would it be correct that he might have something to do with Inns or pubs?
Was their a mikitary base nearby with all the soldiers? With my ancestors being in Newbury in 1841 Jospeh Wade is listed as a Jailer which he was for the military (population occupation I'm sure) and he's buried in the Arbor Hill Military Cemetry in Dublin. His son Frederick Mayo Wade was also military and enlisted in Dublin when just 14 and was in South Africa India and China before finishing at the Kingston on Thames military barracks. But on all of his military records he says he was born in Wokingham near Reading .... so I wondered what was their military wise? As I'm from Australia I have no idea what's what :-). My great grandmother Daisy Wade bought Frederick's brother Charles notebook to Australia with her which helped us figure out who,they all were.
Blessings
Deb
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A malter or maltster was engaged in the making of malt - the vital ingredient for beer. However, this doesn't necessarily link to the pub trade in Newbury because malting was big business in the town with the malt being sent to London for the breweries there. That said all the larger breweries in town had their own malthouses.
There was no military establishment near Newbury in 1815 any soldiers would be passing through. From my recollection of the 1815 census there weren't many of them.
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Hi Deb,
Went back to the library today just to double check the baptisms from 1780-1783 for Mary Paradise and EUREKA! ;D ;D here's your missing link!
Baptism: 6th July 1783 Mary daughter of John & Mary Paradise
For some reason this baptism was not recorded in the index which is why I think I missed it the last time I looked for it. (This time I looked through all of the baptisms individually.)
I also found this baptism for a John Paradice which would fit timewise with your John Paradise who married Mary Mayo in 1780
12th June 1752 John son of Thomas & Mary Paradice
A little more info on the John Totty Mayo line:
Marriage details for John Totty & Mary Mayo's son John (who was the other witness to the marriage of William Mayo and Mary Butson)
Date: 9th April 1839
Place: St Nicolas Church Newbury
Groom: John Mayo, of Full Age, Bachelor, Occ: Whitesmith of Newbury
Bride: Sarah Brown, of Full Age, Spinster, Occ: Servant of Newbury
Groom's Father: John Totty Mayo Occ; Sexton
Bride's Father: Robert Brown Occ: Labourer
Witnesses: John Totty Mayo and Jane or Jone Mayo
Both Bride and Groom signed their names
This looks like them in 1841:
https://tinyurl.com/l7h38pu
and in 1851:
https://tinyurl.com/mtpo85u
and his Baptism:
https://tinyurl.com/kxw8jyv
which records his baptism in Thatcham (approx 4 miles east of Newbury)
so sometime between 1813 and 1816 the family must have moved from Wantage.
In the church records for St Nicolas Newbury there were the following baptisms for children of John & Mary Mayo (can't be sure but think that this is John Totty and Mary Mayo):
Baptism: 15/8/1804 Jane (born 12/6/1804) <<<<possibly Jane Mayo witness of above marriage
Baptism: 3/8/1806 Mary Anne (born 11/1/1806)
Baptism: 23/12/1807 Robert (born 1/10/1807)
Chris
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Well you've made my day!!!
So now there is no doubt and the missing Mary is found :-)
I wondered who the other John was on that marriage so they had a 3rd son ... wonder where he fitted in with William and Thomas?
I shall message Williams Descendant who is also very grateful for all you've found out ... he was very excited and was about to become a grandfather himself yesterday and was thinking how great it was he would be able to pass all this on to his family and was looking forward to digesting all you've found.
fantastic! Bless you!
Deb
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Oh I see now ... in between now I've looked at his baptisim :-)
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Ok so just digesting this .. so there are even more chikdren which makes sense .. we don't know when John Totty And Mary married do we? Or who Mary was? Seems they may have married a lot sooner than thought :-)
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I did look to see if I could see a marriage for John & Mary Mayo but didn't see one.
It's possible that they had even more children as there is rather a large gap between 1807 (last bapt found in Newbury) and William's baptism in 1813 in Wantage and again from 1816 in Thatcham until 1823 when Thomas Totty was baptised in Newbury.
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Just had a peek at that 1841 census ... found another member of the North family there too .. John North a sawyer aged 40 so the other night I found Arthur North the publican ...so could be some kind of family to Totty Mayo's wife Amy.
Lots to look at now :-)
But I best get some sleep as we've had a sad day as our faithful dog of 15 years was sick so we took him to vet and news wasn't good so may have to face saying good bye tomorrow.
But your news was a good distraction ... thank you!
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Hi Deb,
A little info for you:
William Thomas Mayo born 1785.
He is recorded in the United Grand Lodge of England Freemasons Membership Registers 1751-1921 on 18/4/1817 as William Mayo, aged 30, Bookseller, living in Speen Newbury.
He married Eleanor Brown Lee at St Mary's Church Speen Newbury on 25/7/1822
Possible parents for Eleanor Brown Lee:
(Marriage Edward Lee to Sarah Brown on 4/1/1798 at Enbourne Church Newbury)
Baptisms for children in St Nicolas Church Newbury (on all baptisms he is recorded as a Stationer):
30/5/1823 Katherine (parents Thomas & Eleanor Mayo)
29/4/1825 Maurice
12/5/1826 Gilbert
15/2/1828 Margaret
26/2/1830 Dorcas buried 28/4/1830 aged 4 months
24/6/1831 Bernard buried 21/12/1831 aged 7 months
2/1/1833 Philippa buried 8/5/1833 aged 4 months
All of the above record parents as William Thomas & Eleanor Brown Mayo
They also had:
c1834 Cicily born in Newbury
c1837 Hugh born in Malmsbury Wiltshire
1840 Helen born in Malmsbury Wiltshire
In the 1841 census they were living at Barton Street St Mary De Clode Gloucestershire
Death 1845 Eleanor Brown Mayo aged 44 in Gloucestershire
Death 1849 William Thomas Mayo aged 64 in Gloucestershire
These are the children for John & Sarah Mayo (nee Brown)
June Q 1840 George
June Q 1842 Robert buried 15/6/1842 aged 11 days
Mar Q 1845 Charles Robert
June Q 1847 Mary Ann
Sept Q 1851 Alfred
Mar Q 1857 John Morris
Dec Q 1858 Edward Manser buried 8/7/1859 aged 7 months
These are the children of William & Mary Mayo (nee Butson)
June Q 1838 John Totty
Dec Q 1839 Mary Jane
Dec Q 1841 Sarah
June Q 1843 Robert buried 26/8/1844 aged 1
Sept Q 1844 William
Mar Q 1846 Thomas buried as Thomas Totty aged 2 17/5/1848
Sept Q 1847 Amos buried 10/6/1848 aged 9 months
June Q 1851 Thomas buried 12/9/1859 aged 8
June Q 1853 Alice
Sept Q 1856 Francis Butson buried 19/2/1864 aged 7
I looked for a baptism for Martha Gray but she was not in the St Nicolas Church records but I think that this may well be her: (records found on familysearch site)
St Mary's Church Greenham Newbury Berkshire
15/1/1758 Martha daughter of Robert & Patience Gray
other children of this couple:
31/1/1742 Jane
18/9/1743 Hester
18/8/1745 Amy <<<<
28/8/1745 Ann<<<<< (wonder if one of these dates are wrong as only 10 days between them)
6/6/1747 Mary
8/12/1754 Betty
Marriage: (also at Greenham Church)
1/10/1741 Robert Gray to Patience Long
the reason I think that these are Martha's parents is that there are these burials at St Nicolas Church
9/6/1793 Robert Gray aged 89
9/6/1793 Patience Gray aged 80
Martha (nee Gray) and Thomas Grubb had a daughter Martha baptised 4th Feb 1787 at St Nicolas Church.
I could not find a baptism for Thomas Grubb
Here are the marriage details for Martha Grubb's brother John Grubb
Place; St Nicolas Church
Date: 13th July 1846
Groom: John Grubb full age Bachelor occ: Labourer of Newbury
Bride: Hannah Tegg full age Spinster of Newbury
Groom's father: John Grubb occ: Carpenter
Bride's father: George Tegg occ: Labourer
Witnesses: George Stillman and Eliza Dibley
Children:
June Q 1849 Hannah
Sept Q 1851 Eliza buried 12/3/1853 aged 18 months
Sept Q 1855 George
Sept Q 1857 Henry John
Sept Q 1860 Jane
Mar Q 1863 Walter
June Q 1865 Edwin
Mar Q 1869 Kate
Also, I had a look at the place of birth for Mary? wife of John Totty Mayo born 1777 on the 1851 census while I was at the library today, it's possibly Newark Nottinghamshire as the first part says Not (for Nottinghamshire), although the other word does look very much like Newyork but was probably mistranscribed or misheard.
I think that's about all the infomation I can find on your family in the records held at Newbury Library but if you think of anything else you would like me to take a look for just let me know.
Best wishes
Chris.
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Chris ... you have been so wonderfully generous in your time with my family tree I'm so very thankful for your help I just never would have worked any of this out without your amazing efforts.
I shall make myself a cuppa and digest your findings ...
I also found Joseph Wade on an 1851 cencus in Dublin but seems they only listed heads of thousehold and there's no mention of where he's from just where he was which was Royal Barracks and Military Provest and Garrison Cells. So Joseph remains elusive :-)
Will let you know how I get on unpacking all of this ...
blessings
Deb
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Hi Chris,
John Morris Mayo 1857 I also came across him the other day ... he's a bit of a mystery. I know he's the son John Mayo (the whitesmith) as it's listed on his marriage to a Minnie White. What's strange is he isn't with family on any of the census records ... I started to wonder if he was Sarah's son or of John Snr got into mischief. But if you've noted his baptisim he must have been Sarah's son ... I just wonder where he was in his early years?
I can see other ancestry trees who don't know who his parents are.
Blessings
Deb
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Hi Deb,
It looks like an.....y have mistranscribed him as Maria Mayo born 1857(probably mistake for Morris/Maurice) in the 1861 census living with parents and siblings. John and Sarah Mayo didn't have a daughter named Maria.
Also, not sure if you have this but it looks like he was married twice. First marriage in Newbury in 1881 to Fanny Holder. They had a daughter, Ellen Louise in 1885. Fanny died aged 37, in Newbury in 1895.
This is them in the 1891 census:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7B1F-Q3Z
John must have moved to the Camberwell area after Fanny's death and remarried in 1899 to Minnie White.
This looks like Ellen in the 1901 census living with her uncle, recorded as Nellie:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSXP-Y8B
Chris
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Ahh ok that makes sense. Still unpacking all you've found ... finding it really interesting that a branch of the Mayo's end up in Gloucestershire which is where Daisy Wade (Frederick Mayo Wades granddaughter) also ends up when she married Ted Clark.
Also the Freemason connection ... I saw something the other day ... it caught my eye as there was a Wade on the same list but now I can't remember who it was or what year as I mist have discounted it.
Also seeing that name Katherine or Catherine popping up just makes it more and more likely that Thomas Mayo and Katherine Totty from Wiltshire were the ones that started that Totty name in the Mayo family.
It's been an interesting journey meeting this family.
The other mystery I still haven't solved is that of the 1861 census of Mary Grubb née Paradise when she's listed as a visitor to a Thomas Puri (which I think you looked at for me before) what's odd is if I hit the search for that name from Wiltshire it comes up with a Rosanna Purs from Wiltshire married to
a Henry Grubb! Bit of a coincidence or do the Grubbs have Wiltshire roots too? :-)
So interesting as well to see how far back you've gone for Martha Gray and her family.
Hopefully I can get a few more of them filled in tomorrow.
Was very sad to see how many babies William Thomas and Eleanor Mayo lost!
I am again very grateful for all you've uncovered!
Blessings
Deb
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Hi Deb,
The marriage between Henry Grubb and Rosannah Purs took place in Swindon Wilts on 15th Sept 1805 and at the time of this marriage Henry was recorded as of Kempsford Gloucestershire and is recorded as, residence Out of Wiltshire so maybe the Grubbs have roots in Gloucestershire.
Re: Thomas Puri/Purs
Your Quotes
"I'm sure Thomas Puri/Prior/Purs is somehow connected to Martha so will keep looking."
"Thank you Chris I've looked again at the 1861 record ... it's really hard to tell if it's Prior and I can't find the written one for 1851 so ancestry must have it listed differently again."
My Quote
"The 1861 census for Mary Grubb records Thomas Puri as Thomas Prior on familysearch"
I have posted some possible details below for Thomas in the 1861, 1851 and 1841 census. Although in the 1861 census he is recorded as being born in Chetton Wiltshire and in 1851 he is recorded as being born in Chilton Berkshire his age fits and he is at the same address in both 1851 and 1861.
Address: Raymonds New Almshouses Newbury
Head:Thomas Puri ( possibly reads Prior) aged 84, wid, born Chetton Wilts occ: Almsman late Malters labourer
Visitor: Mary Grubb, aged 81, wid, born Newbury Berks Occ; Carpenter's Widow
Visitor: Nancy Parsons, aged 8, occ: Chimney Sweep's daughter
Possibly the same Thomas in the 1851 census:
Address: Raymonds Almshouses Newbury
Head: Thomas Proce (possibly reads Prior) aged 74, wid, born Chilton Berkshire occ: Almshouse Man
Servant: Lydia Barton aged 66, single, occ: Servant, born Highclere Hampshire
Possibly Thomas recorded as Thomas Prior, aged 65, Ag Lab, in the 1841 census living in Chilton
Berkshire
Possible baptism:
https://tinyurl.com/ltm895h
This looks like his death reg:
THOMAS PRIOR AGED 87
GRO Reference: 1864 M Quarter in NEWBURY Volume 02C Page 184
I can't see any obvious family link for Mary Grubb and Thomas Prior, maybe they were just friends.
It's possible that Thomas Mayo might have remarried after his wife Dinah/Dina died in 1770 as I found this marriage:
St Nicolas Church Newbury
21st April 1771
Thomas Mayo (wid)
Mary May (wid)
Thomas signed his name, Mary made her mark
Witnesses: Joseph Snow and Ann King
Chris
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I have posted some possible details below for Thomas in the 1861, 1851 and 1841 census. Although in the 1861 census he is recorded as being born in Chetton Wiltshire and in 1851 he is recorded as being born in Chilton Berkshire his age fits and he is at the same address in both 1851 and 1861.
With some of my rellies, I have had confusion between Chilton, Berks and Chilton, Wilts for birthplace of same person. I discovered in my case it was Chilton Foliat close to the county border and not the Chilton just off the A34 near Harwell
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Thanks Lizzie that makes sense
Found this:
https://tinyurl.com/kdck3bw
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Am new to all of this but being a Mayo am interested in Mary (?) wife of John Totty Mayo born 1777. All I can gather is that she was born abt 1780. Has anyone found out more; parents, death,siblings etc?
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Am new to all of this but being a Mayo am interested in Mary (?) wife of John Totty Mayo born 1777. All I can gather is that she was born abt 1780. Has anyone found out more; parents, death,siblings etc?
Hi Anthony this post was awhile ago now but I re read a bit of it and I don’t think anything more was ever found on Mary the Newbury records being patchy online but Chris did an amazing job and helped me so much but I don’t think more was found the marriage would hold the key. I will have another look when I have a moment.
My ancestor was Frederick Mayo Wade it was from him we discovered our Mayo family roots. I have a tree on ancestry.
Blessings
Deb
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Hi Anthony,
A little info for you:
This is John Totty Mayo (recorded as John Potty Mayo) in the 1851 census (on familysearch):
https://tinyurl.com/yyqap7qa
and Mary Mayo recorded as May in the 1851 census (records birth place as Newark Nottinghamshire):
https://tinyurl.com/yydyletq
Death for Mary
MAYO, MARY aged 83
GRO Reference: 1861 M Quarter in NEWBURY Volume 02C Page 143
Burial: Mary Mayo 14th Feb 1861 St Nicolas Newbury
Death for John Totty:
MAYO, JOHN TOTTY aged 82
GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in NEWBURY Volume 02C Page 141
Burial: John Totty Mayo 19th Oct 1859 St Nicolas Newbury
Kind regards
Chris
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Thanks for that Chris. If Mary came from Newark it possibly explains the mystery of her surname in that the wedding was probably in Newark so no point in hunting for the marriage cert records for Berkshire!
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Hi Anthony,
A little info for you:
This is John Totty Mayo (recorded as John Potty Mayo) in the 1851 census (on familysearch):
https://tinyurl.com/yyqap7qa
and Mary Mayo recorded as May in the 1851 census (records birth place as Newark Nottinghamshire):
https://tinyurl.com/yydyletq
Death for Mary
MAYO, MARY aged 83
GRO Reference: 1861 M Quarter in NEWBURY Volume 02C Page 143
Burial: Mary Mayo 14th Feb 1861 St Nicolas Newbury
Death for John Totty:
MAYO, JOHN TOTTY aged 82
GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in NEWBURY Volume 02C Page 141
Burial: John Totty Mayo 19th Oct 1859 St Nicolas Newbury
Kind regards
Chris
Once again amazing job! Thank you so much Chris
Blessings
Deb
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Hi Anthony and Deb,
Quote from Anthony:
If Mary came from Newark it possibly explains the mystery of her surname in that the wedding was probably in Newark so no point in hunting for the marriage cert records for Berkshire!
Not necessarily they could have married in another local Berkshire parish (other that St Nicolas Newbury which is the only parish that I have checked).
Not sure if you have these burials but just in case you don't:
Burial for father of John Totty Mayo born c1777:
St Nicolas Newbury
29th July 1807
Totty Mayo
Aged 59
After a long illness, in the 60th year of his age, Totty Mayo, a reputable Bookseller and Printer, of Newbury
and mother of John Totty Mayo
St Nicolas Newbury
9th May 1821
Amy Mayo
Aged 83
and a little snippet on John Totty Mayo:
Saturday 23rd April 1842
Borough Police - On Saturday last, before J Lewis Esq., Mayor and E W Gray Esq., John Totty Mayo, sexton of Newbury church, was convicted of an assault in obstructing the affixing a notice of vestry upon the church door.
and a more detailed account:
Police Office- On Saturday morning the 9th inst. before J Lewis Esq., Mayor and E W Gray Esq., Justice- John Toddy Mayo sexton of Newbury Church was summoned for an assault commited on Mr A Beckhuson. The case occupied a considerable time, commencing at 12 o'clock and not closing until nearly 4. Both the parties employed solicitors, R F Graham Esq., appearing for the plaintiff and J Vine Esq., for the defendant. The case was shortly this, Mr Beckhuson was requested, a few Sundays since, to fix a notice (which had previously been signed by three of the overseers of the parish) on the church doors announcing that a public vestry would be held for the purpose of taking into consideration the expediency of stopping up some public footpaths in the East Fields and substituting others in their stead and when he was in the act, and had succeeded in placing a wafer on one corner of the paper on the board usually left on the door, Mr Mayo opened the inner glass door, which was then shut, rushed out, tore the notice down and with some degree of violence thrust Mr Beckhuson away. He also struck him in the side; this circumstance was corroborated by a clerk of Mr Graham's. Mayo, it appears, told Mr Beckhuson, that he was desired by the rector, Dr Binney, not to allow the notice to be affixed as he had not been consulted previously. The assault being clearly proved, the magistrates of course, sustained a charge, but as the object of the party was not to inflict a heavy fine, the decision of the court was, that he should be fined one shilling or be imprisioned for seven days. Although the fine was small, yet from the lengthened depositions, the expenses, which will be included, will amount to 14 shillings more, and 1 shilling for his journey from Oxford.
ADDED:
A possibility perhaps!
Findmypast has a marriage for a John Mayo and Mary Dear in 1803 in Twyford Hampshire (approx 30 miles from Newbury) which would fit timewise as 1st baptism found in Newbury was in 1804 and John's parents Totty and Amy Mayo (nee North) were married in Hampshire.
Kind regards
Chris
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Thanks Chris. On a walking holiday so will take this in more detail when I get home at the end of the week.
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Thanks Chris, what an amazing story. I am almost ashamed to be descended from such a miscreant.
Regarding the possibility that Mary was Mary Dear, that is interesting. My father had many tales of his great grandfather who left Newbury at quite a young age for Devonport and then Princetown (Dartmoor) for a career in what we would now call 'The Prison Service'. The name Dear rings a faint bell with me. It might very well have been something Dad told me about his great grandmother or I could be imagining things! I wonder therefore whether with all your experience you might know where the marriage records of John Mayo and Mary Dear might be found in Hampshire. A copy of certificate would be extremely useful so I would certainly like to have a go at finding one.
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That'll be Winchester
https://www.hants.gov.uk/librariesandarchives/archives/visit
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Many thanks
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If it helps, possible date for the marriage: 27th June 1803
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Thanks very much, I am sure it will.
Tony
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Ignore this message please as I see this marriage was recorded earlier
Just to add to candrjm's reply, the marriage was in Twyford, about 3 miles south of Winchester.
I mention this as there is a Twyford in Berks (nr Reading)
Alan
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Hi Anthony,
John Mayo did marry Mary Dear (see transcription here on Twyford Marriages 1626-1837 Groom Revised 18th July 2008 page 27) :
http://www.tomccparishes.org.uk/parish-records/
John Mayo from Newbury Berks married Mary Dear of Twyford , by licence, at Twyford on 27/6/1803.
Witnesses were - Elizabeth Shephard and John Over.
Kind regards
Chris
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Thanks once again Chris. Your ability to find these sort of records is mind blowing to me. We descendants of John Mayo now have a new line to follow viz Mary DEAR!
Tony
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Have contacted the Hants Record Office re this marriage. Very pleasant and helpful people but they could not find any 'new' paperwork like a copy marriage certificate or say why the marriage had to have the special licence. A pity but it seems Mary Dear's family background and circumstances are likely to remain a mystery
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Bit negative there, if you don't mind me saying so, Anthony.
Lookimg at the website candrjm posted, There are a couple of Dear families in baptisms at Twyford in the 1770s and 80s, even a Mary in 1774.
Parents Samuel & Sarah were buried in Twyford while I didn't spot burials for the other couple, John & Mary.
John & Mary had a kid called Science. Might be worth seeing what happened to him (think it was a boy) to see whether John & Mary maybe moved away and had other children .
Still a bit more delving you can do before writing this off, I reckon
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Hi Anthony,
I can't take the credit for finding the parish Twyford records, another researcher named Dea helped with that query.
This is just a feeling but I think that this might be worth further investigation. It's possible that John could have married Mary Dear, (daughter of Samuel and Sarah) and that possibly Mary died sometime after 1816 (after son John was born in Thatcham, no death found for Mary) ) then possibly John remarried in Thatcham in 1822, (to 2nd Mary) and they then had Thomas Totty in 1823.
If you do decide to look into this further, the records are held at the Berkshire Records office in Reading Tel: 0118 937 5132
Marriage:
9th June 1822
Thatcham Berkshire
John Mayo + Mary Moulding
Kind regards
Chris
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Thanks once again Chris. I accept your mild reprimand re Mary Dear. The truth is that your knowledge of where to look for facts coupled with your ability to dig them out just leave me standing!
I have been trying to understand this child called Science. My record of John's children is of Jane 1804, Marry Anne 1806, Robert 1807, William 1813, John 1816 and finally my great, great, great grandfather, Thomas Totty in 1823. Where does Science fit in I wonder? Perhaps he was the first born, with Mary pregnant at the wedding and hence the reason a licence was required. He also seems to have 'disappeared' quite quickly and the rather unusual name was never, to my knowledge, carried over in the family.
Within the John's children, there are two obvious gaps in otherwise fairly regular births, between 1807 (Robert) and 1813 (William) and then between 1816 (John) and 1823 (Thomas T). This second gap could indeed be accounted for by the death of the first Mary and a possible remarriage in 1822.
Thanks for Berks Records Office details.
Tony
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Just been checking again. I have Mary Mayo's death as Feb 1861, burial 14th Feb in Newbury. If your thinking is correct, this would be Mary nee Moulding, not Mary nee Dear. The plot thickens!
Tony
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Is there any chance that the mystery child 'Science' is actually a girl called Silence?
That was my 3x great-grandmother's name (and for some unknown reason people usually point at me and laugh whenever this fact is mentioned) :D
Carol
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On the Twyfords baptisms Science Dear was the daughter of John and Mary DEAR baptised 6/11/1770 I can't see a Science Mayo in the records so possibly Steve got confused.
Samuel Dear married Sarah Tee 10/2/1766
Children:
Samuel bapt 17/3/1767
Twins John and Sarah bapt 19/9/1768
Rebecca bapt 18/10/1770
Thomas bapt 5/6/1772
Mary baptised 12/4/1774 Possibly married John Mayo in 1803
Sarah Dear (no age given) wife of Samuel Dear was buried 21/7/1803
Samuel Dear aged 81 was buried 23/12/1819
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It was in reference to giving up on the Dears, so, no, it wasn't me getting confused, maybe causing some though.
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A possibility???
Wondering if this could be Mary's burial (surname mistakenly recorded as Mays, I can't see any other burials with the name Mays buried in Greenham (Greenham is approximately 4 miles from Thatcham)
Mary Mays
Aged 46
3rd Oct 1821
St Mary's Greenham Berkshire
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Hi Anthony,
Quote:
A possibility???
Wondering if this could be Mary's burial (surname mistakenly recorded as Mays, I can't see any other burials with the name Mays buried in Greenham (Greenham is approximately 4 miles from Thatcham)
Mary Mays
Aged 46
3rd Oct 1821
St Mary's Greenham Berkshire
Newbury library has a transcribed record of the CMD's for the parish of Greenham (1770-1840) so as I was in town this morning I popped in to have a look at their transcribed record of Mary Mays burial and they have her name recorded as Mary Mayo.
Chris
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Hi All,
Must admit am feeling more than a bit confused by all the information which you guys are unearthing. Initially I had a fairly simple story that Mary was born abt 1780 and died in 1861 being buried in St Nicholas Church Newbury. Then came the suggestion that there might well have been two Marys with the first Mary being born 1774 and possibly dying in 1821, she being the'true' Mary Dear and the second actually being Mary Moulding. The problems I have in linking the first Mary with the Oct 1821 burial in Greenham is an age discrepancy of 1 year 1821 -46 makes her dob 1775 whereas Mary Dear was born in April 1774 and then we know from the court account that husband John was a sexton of St Nicholas which makes it unlikely his wife would be buried in a 'foreign' church even if it was only a few miles away. A strong case of Confused.com!!!
Tony
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Hi Tony,
Part of Quote:
The problems I have in linking the first Mary with the Oct 1821 burial in Greenham is an age discrepancy of 1 year 1821 -46 makes her dob 1775 whereas Mary Dear was born in April 1774 and then we know from the court account that husband John was a sexton of St Nicholas which makes it unlikely his wife would be buried in a 'foreign' church even if it was only a few miles away. A strong case of Confused.com!!!
Family history research isn't an exact science, often you will find discrepancies in ages given so one years difference in age at death would not be unusual to see.
We don't actually know when John Totty Mayo became the Sexton at St Nicolas Church Newbury, he was a Cabinet Maker as recorded on Thomas Totty Mayo's baptism in 1823 and although he was recorded at that time in the St Nicolas parish records it's possible that the family may have been living in Greenham in 1821 when Mary died.
Hope this helps
Chris
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Chris, I obviously totally agree with your comment re minor discrepancies in ages etc in this type of research. However I remain uncomfortable with the Mary Moulding story which of course if true makes her my great, great, great grandmother and not Mary Dear. There was a strong oral history in my fathers line, elements of which I have been able to establish from totally different sources, to have been true. This dates mainly to early to mid 19th century. I am almost certain of hearing of Mary Dear in these recollections but cannot think why she would have been remembered by our branch of the family if we were not descended from her. I also believed John Totty was a Newbury man all his life, born there, worked there both professionally and for the Church, died and was buried there. Never the less, perhaps I ought to try and find something about Mary Moulding!!!
Thanks so much for all your research.
Tony
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Tony perhaps consider ancestries DNA testing and use their thru lines to check for matches to both Mary’s. This could perhaps answer your question once and for all. This is a new program they have introduced recently and has certainly helped confirm a few things for me.
Blessings
Deb
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Hi Tony,
Having had another look at John Totty Mayo's family I've found these two marriages:
Marriage for John Totty Mayo's daughter Jane born 1804:
Place: Greenham Newbury
3rd March 1840
Groom: Spencer Atwood, Full Age, Bachelor of Greenham, occ: Plumber
Bride: Jane Mayo, Full Age, Spinster, of Greenham
Fathers: William Atwood occ: Timber Merchant and John Mayo occ: Cabinet Maker
Marriage for John Totty Mayo's daughter Mary Anne born 1806:
Place: Parish Chapel St Pancras Camden
Date: 14th June 1846
Groom: Thomas Manser, Full Age, Bachelor, of Apulston Street occ: Servant
Bride: Mary Ann Mayo, Full Age, Spinster of Apulston Street
Fathers: William Manser occ: Cooper and John Mayo occ: Cabinet Maker
In this 1851 census for Jane her birth place is recorded as Greenham
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGBM-ZRW
This is the two sisters in the 1871 census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFXJ-5N3
Yesterday I was at the Berkshire records office so took the opportunity to look up the marriage record for John Mayo to Mary Moulding:
Place: St Mary's Church Thatcham (married at this church by Banns)
Date: 9th June 1822
Groom: John Mayo, Widower, of the parish of Greenham
Bride: Mary Moulding, Widow, of the parish of Newbury
Witnesses: Maria Dredge and Thomas ? (looks like Tlatton)
John signed Mary made her mark
With all the connections to Greenham it now looks more likely that John Totty Mayo did marry twice.
Added; (The following info given with caution)
Possibly relating to Mary Moulding (wife of John Mayo)
Place: St Nicolas Church Newbury
Date: 9/7/1813
Child: George Leander Moulding
Parents: George & Mary Moulding
Father's occ: Private in the 15th Dragoons
Burial for this child 22/2/1819 at St Nicolas Newbury
No burials for a George Moulding (the father) in Newbury between 1812-1822 and also no burials for a Mary Moulding that would fit with the mother of George Leander Moulding.
Possible senario (could be completely wrong):
George Moulding was a serving soldier so may have died in conflict. Mary then left as a widow living in Newbury where she possibly knew John and Mary Mayo (perhaps through the church). After Mary died in 1821 John then married Mary Moulding.
There is this family tree on Familysearch that also has a George Leander Moulding (born 1835) and following back through to John Moulding born 1761, he and his wife Hester had a son George born 1781 (could he be George Moulding husband of Mary)
link to tree:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:1:MWWB-QLN
Familysearch has a marriage for a George Moulding to a Mary Needham 1st July 1812 at St Peter Nottingham (fits timewise, perhaps George whilst serving in the army spent some time in Nottingham met Mary then moved her Newbury)
Added:
Just found a George Moulding aged 2 (born 1813) in the 1815 Toomers census recorded as grandson living with his grandparents John and Hester Moulding at the George and Dragon Northbrook St Newbury so he must be the son of George born 1781 son of John & Hester Moulding.
Kind regards,
Chris
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Thanks for that. Great stuff. Currently on holiday in a remote part of Costa Rica so will have to wait until l get home to really pick this up.
Tony Mayo
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Just wanted add that you are amazing Chris and thank you for helping Tony.
Blessings
Deb
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He certainly is. One day would like to meet. I think my cousin Maggie Howe and I owe him a pint or two!!!!!
Tony
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He certainly is. One day would like to meet. I think my cousin Maggie Howe and I owe him a pint or two!!!!!
Tony
You will have to buy Chris one from me too as it could be awhile before I get back. And I believe Chris is a she :-) easy to not know with the name.
Blessings
Deb
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Yes Deb, I can confirm I'm of the fairer sex and I'm just glad I've been able to help you both.
Tony, there is this Mary Moulding recorded in the 1815 census (age out a little so could be a different Mary):
East side of Northbrook Street Newbury
Jene Bunny aged 23 occ: Attorney
Clara Bunny aged 27
Clara Bunny aged 1
Caroline Eliza Bunny infant
Eliza Newbury aged 19
Hannah Smith aged 18
Mary Moulding aged 30
(Eliza, Hannah and Mary were possibly servants )
I need to have another look in the parish records and will get back to you later.
Chris
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In that case it's a couple of glasses of champagne we owe you!!!!!
I think from memory and will check when we get home, that the family lived in Northbrook Street in which case Mary may very well have been a family friend who our great, great grandfather turned to when his first wife died. Tony M.
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Hi Tony,
Looking at the parish records for St Nicolas Church (for elimination purposes) this is what I have found:
Checked baptisms 1799-1822: No Moulding children with mother Mary Moulding (apart from George Leander Moulding in 1813) found.
Checked baptisms 1780-1790: No record for a Mary Moulding found.
Checked marriages 1799-1812: No record for a male Moulding to a Mary ? found
so it looks like the Mary Moulding in the 1815 census is George Leander Moulding's mother.
Whilst I was looking at the baptisms for 1799-1812 I did find this baptism (I obviously missed this one when searching the records before):
Name: John Mayo
Born: 22nd Aug 1809
Bapt: 13th Sept 1809
Parents: John and Mary Mayo
Which closes the gap a little (between 1807-1813).
Presumably this John died before 1816. (when John number 2 was born). I did look for a death/burial for both this John and one for Robert born 1807 (unlike his siblings Robert doesn't appear in any records other than his baptism) on both the NBI and the BBI but couldn't find any.
With regard to Northbrook Street, there are only about 50 shops/houses on both sides (as per Newburychap's post on page 10) and the population of Newbury in1815 was 5,309 so it's highly likely that the Mayo and the Moulding families would have known each other. Perhaps John Totty Mayo popped into the George & Dragon for a drink or two. ;D ;D (coincidentally my ancestors moved to Newbury and held the license for the George and Dragon from 1929-1953)
In the 1841 census John, Mary and their son Thomas Totty Mayo were recorded living in West Mills Newbury, this road ran down the north side of St Nicolas Church see here:
Link to google maps (If you swivel the picture around you can then travel down the road and see what West Mills looks like today) :
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4010224,-1.3253692,3a,75y,84.65h,99.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snmO-g6rFEo_lxADfvFLeKw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
in the 1851 census John and Mary are recorded as living in Raymonds Almshouses there are two Raymonds Almshouses in Newbury, Lower Raymond (built 1796) and Upper Raymond (built 1826)
Pictures of Lower Raymond Almshouses:
https://www.onephotographaday.org.uk/the-lower-raymond-almshouses-newtown-road-newbury/
Pictures of Upper Raymond Almshouses:
https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/101210612-upper-raymond-almshouses-newbury
Both of these Almshouses are still standing and in use today. I can't be absolutely sure but looking at the 1851 census I would favour the Lower Raymond Almshouses as the residence for John and Mary as looking at the census pages they seem to record the Raymond Almshouses then Newtown Road .
Here is a link to Newtown Road which shows you Lower Raymonds Almshouses as they are today:
https://tinyurl.com/y5ukmqyt
If you swivel the picture around and then travel forward along the road up to the roundabout, go all around the roundabout and then travel down the road marked no entry (Derby Road) half way down on the right you should see a patch of grass with cars parked on there, beyond the cars is Upper Raymonds Almshouses
If you go back to the link (below) swivel round and travel back to the roundabout and then go straight across (taking the 2nd exit (Newtown Road) then travel along the road a little way you should see a cemetery on the right hand side, this is where John Totty Mayo was laid to rest:
https://tinyurl.com/y5ukmqyt
Here is a link to Friends of Newtown Road Cemetery where you can view the record for John Totty Mayo (other Mayo's recorded also)
http://www.fnrcnewbury.org.uk/index.asp
Best Wishes
Chris
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Hi Chris,
Coming to an end of our holiday so looking forward to piecing this all together when I get home. What a fantastic piece of field work you have done. Cousin Maggie and I had been planning to visit Reading Records Office earlier this year though it never happened but even if it had part of a day at Reading would not have revealed a fraction of what you have achieved in Newbury. Thanks so much for your diligence.
Tony Mayo
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Thought I might add a question or two back on this post - I tried starting a new thread but although it’s been read haven’t had any takers.
With this all popping back up again it made me review what was originally found.
That my Mary and Anthony’s Totty Mayo were siblings and children of Totty and Sarah Mayo née Poor. Totty we believe is the son of Thomas and Dina Mayo with Totty’s baptism (1723)
probably being mis transcribed as female instead of male being born in Salisbury Wiltshire possibly dying in Newbury as this is where his marriage took place and the birth of all his children. We don’t have a death as yet for him or his wife.
Thomas Mayo was the son of Thomas and Katheren Mayo née Totty - hence where the Totty name came from.
Katheren’s father left a Will which I’ve had transcribed and names all of her siblings. Her father was John Totty occupation gardener and he left an extensive Will. Katheren was not married at the time of his death as she was youngest. John’s father Richard also left a Will and both John and Richard mention a cousin James Townsend. To confuse matters there is a James senior and James junior. I’ve not worked out yet how they are cousins as I don’t know the maiden names of either John or Richards wives. However what I did note was James Townsend senior mentions in his Will his brother in law William Mayo. So I’ve made a mini tree linking these Mayo’s to the Townsend family. But so far haven’t connected any of them to our Thomas Mayo.
He’s a right mystery I did find a document on find my past which I will add that gives the parish he was living in at the time of his marriage to Katheren as Corsley Wiltshire and he’s a clothier and she was living in Frome Selwood Somerset. As she had been youngest and orphaned perhaps she had family there? I also noticed that the person listed as bondsman was a Francis Mayo from Ferris Norton Somerset? So I wondered if he holds the key to working out who Thomas Mayo is, he is 30 when he married so puts his year of birth around 1664 but I haven’t found any Thomas Mayo’s that fit that time frame except one in an odd sound area Sutton Benger Wiltshire (although this is 1666 so would make him younger) and wouldn’t you know it no parents are listed.
So if anyone has time to have a look at Thomas Mayo Clothier and can find any possible links to family it would be greatly appreciated.
Blessings
Deb
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I’m trying to add the marriage document but the attachment button doesn’t seem to be working
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I’m trying to add the marriage document but the attachment button doesn’t seem to be working
"Lookup Request" threads do not allow attachments :)
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I’m trying to add the marriage document but the attachment button doesn’t seem to be working
"Lookup Request" threads do not allow attachments :)
Oh I didn’t realise that thank you
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Hi again Chris. Have been working through all that information you and Deb have unearthed recently. Included was a link to the Friends of Newtown Road Cemetery and you are quite correct as well as John Totty Mayo there are a number of other Mayos who must fit into the Family Tree somewhere. Two immediately stand out, the first John Jolty Mayo in 1903. I would imagine that Jolty is a miss spelling of Totty somewhere down the line. The second is William Mayo 17/4/1875 aged 62, therefore born in 1813. This must be William, son of John Totty and Mary Dear.
Tony
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Hi Tony,
Yes the William Mayo buried in 1875 does look to be the son of John Totty and Mary Mayo (nee Dear) and the John Jolty (Totty) Mayo buried in 1903 looks to be William's son born 1838 in Newbury. (not sure if he married and I think that he was a Tailor Journeyman)
Here's how the other Mayo burials fit into your family:
Edward Manter Mayo buried 1859 was aged 7 months when he died and was the grandson of John Totty & Mary Mayo (nee Dear) son of John & Sarah Mayo (nee Brown). Edward's middle name should read Manser, this being the married surname of his father John's sister Mary Ann born c1806.
Fanny Mayo (nee Holder) buried 1895 was the 1st wife of John Morris/Maurice Mayo who was born c1857 grandson of John Totty & Mary Mayo (nee Dear) son of John and Sarah Mayo (nee Brown).
Francis Mayo buried 1864 was aged 7 when he died, grandson of John Totty & Mary Mayo (nee Dear), son of William (born c1813) & Mary Mayo (nee Butson).
Frederick Charlie/Charles Mayo was aged 17 when he was buried in 1899 and was the great grandson of John Totty & Mary Mayo (nee Dear) he was the son of Charles Robert & Emily Mayo (nee Palmer) Charles being the son of John & Sarah Mayo (nee Brown).
John Mayo buried in 1895 was aged 79 and was the son of John Totty & Mary Mayo (nee Dear) and husband of Sarah Mayo (nee Brown)
Mary Mayo (nee Butson) aged 64 buried in 1877 was the daughter-in-law of John Totty & Mary Mayo (nee Dear), widow of William Mayo born 1813.
Sarah Mayo (nee Brown) aged 76 buried in 1892 was the daughter-in-law of John Totty & Mary Mayo (nee Dear), wife of John Mayo
Thomas Mayo buried in 1859 was aged 8 when he died and was the grandson of John Totty & Mary Mayo (nee Dear) son of William Mayo born 1813 and Mary Mayo (nee Butson)
Kind regards
Chris
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All I can say is WOW!
You are a fantastic tracker of facts.
Many thanks.
I only wish I knew someone like you who could dig out information like this about my paternal grandmothers family.
Anthony M.
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hi, i've only just found this thread. I am investigating my family tree (Frost family) and i have links back to the Wades as Joseph Wade and Martha Grubbs daughter Isabella Caroline Wade married Richard Hall my great, great grandparents i think. Would love to gain some more info.
Thanks
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hi, i've only just found this thread. I am investigating my family tree (Frost family) and i have links back to the Wades as Joseph Wade and Martha Grubbs daughter Isabella Caroline Wade married Richard Hall my great, great grandparents i think. Would love to gain some more info.
Thanks
Well then we are related :) my 3 x G Grandfather was Frederick Mayo Wade brother to your Isabella Caroline Wade.
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Do you have any info you would like to share?
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Do you have any info you would like to share?
I’ve sent you a message with my email address so drop me a line and I can share what I can.
Regards
Deb
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My head is spinning with this lot and apologies if answer is already buried amongst all the replies, but the maiden name of the mother on the GRO entry for Edward Eeles birth in Newbury, 1840 Ref 6, page 228, is GRUBB. Courtesy of findmypast.
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My head is spinning with this lot and apologies if answer is already buried amongst all the replies, but the maiden name of the mother on the GRO entry for Edward Eeles birth in Newbury, 1840 Ref 6, page 228, is GRUBB. Courtesy of findmypast.
Thank you for that I did find that out some time ago now … his mother was sister to my ancestor Martha Grubb :)