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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: bread basket on Sunday 05 February 17 13:39 GMT (UK)
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1st time poster here so please bear with me. My great Grandmother Kate McAlister (nee McLaughlin) lost her husband in 1897. She had 3 children. She remarried to a John McGowan, a retired Dublin Policeman 19/2/1901. John's father is listed as a Shoemaker on the registration document.
Kate and John (for reasons unknown) are found living in digs in Glasgow in the 1901 Census with 2 of the children,Patrick and Constantine but Annie the other child is found living with grandparents Bernard McAllister in Ballymena in the 1901 Census.
As far as I know Kate and John went on to have 2 children Mary / Margaret & Lizzie / Elizabeth. Not sure if they settled in Glasgow and if the children were born there?
The next thing I know is that Kate ( Catherine) dies in Ballymena Workhouse 25 Sept 1909 a Widow.
So, where and when did John die?
Where were Mary & Lizzie born?
John's Police Record?
A big ask for my 1st post but I'm struggling with this one.
Next post on another relative will also be as taxing, my Grannie in a Workhouse in Dungannon.
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what age was John and what was his father called please
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More questions-
She remarried to a John McGowan, a retired Dublin Policeman 19/2/1901.
Where did John McGowan marry Kate McAllister?
Annie the other child is found living with grandparents Bernard McAllister in Ballymena in the 1901 Census.
Where in Ballymena?
As far as I know Kate and John went on to have 2 children Mary / Margaret & Lizzie / Elizabeth. Not sure if they settled in Glasgow and if the children were born there?
Have you searched for births of those children in Scotland (as well as John McGowan's death)? Have you found those children in 1911 census? birthplaces should be listed to give an indication of at least what country
The next thing I know is that Kate ( Catherine) dies in Ballymena Workhouse 25 Sept 1909 a Widow.
Catherine McGowan's address before she entered the Workhouse was Ballymena.
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Annie the other child is found living with grandparents Bernard McAllister in Ballymena in the 1901 Census.
Annie Kathleen McAllister born 8 Sept.1895 at Clarence St., Ballymena- parents Con McAllister & Kate McLaughlin & informant Maggie McLaughlin-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1895/02197/1830359.pdf
Is this Annie McAllister in 1901 census with grandparents? grandfather Daniel McLaughlin not Bernard McAllister-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballymena_and_Town_and_Urban_District_of_Ballymena/High_Street/926169
Marriage (1892) gives his father as Bernard McAllister, pork curer-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1892/10630/5872950.pdf
This looks like Bernard McAllister in 1901 but no grand-daughter in household-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballymena_and_Town_and_Urban_District_of_Ballymena/Mount_Street/926321
No grandchildren in 1911 census either-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Ballymena_Town/Mount_Street/116810
Patrick McAllister born 1894, Albert St., Ballymena-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1894/02275/1854352.pdf
Constantine McAllister born 1897- father Constantine, Belfast, deceased-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1897/02109/1802618.pdf
Con McAllister died 1897-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1897/05858/4660194.pdf
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what age was John and what was his father called please
Sorry, the marriage registration does not give his age and says that his father was a shoemaker, no first name given.
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Annie the other child is found living with grandparents Bernard McAllister in Ballymena in the 1901 Census.
Annie Kathleen McAllister born 8 Sept.1895 at Clarence St., Ballymena- parents Con McAllister & Kate McLaughlin & informant Maggie McLaughlin-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1895/02197/1830359.pdf
Is this Annie McAllister in 1901 census with grandparents? grandfather Daniel McLaughlin not Bernard McAllister-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballymena_and_Town_and_Urban_District_of_Ballymena/High_Street/926169
Marriage (1892) gives his father as Bernard McAllister, pork curer-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1892/10630/5872950.pdf
This looks like Bernard McAllister in 1901 but no grand-daughter in household-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballymena_and_Town_and_Urban_District_of_Ballymena/Mount_Street/926321
No grandchildren in 1911 census either-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Ballymena_Town/Mount_Street/116810
Patrick McAllister born 1894, Albert St., Ballymena-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1894/02275/1854352.pdf
Constantine McAllister born 1897- father Constantine, Belfast, deceased-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1897/02109/1802618.pdf
Con McAllister died 1897-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1897/05858/4660194.pdf
Right, you have hit on the correct family, my mistake Annie went to live with the Grandparents McLaughlin, not the McAllister side of the clan.
Regarding the Scotland records, I am finding that part of my research difficult as Ancestery and Find my past only seem to give England and Wales or am I being a bit slow on the uptake.
The only other reference to the 2 girls is that my Father referred to Lizzie as "Lizzie from Toome"
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1911 Scottish census and Scottish vital records (births, marriages, deaths) are only on Scotland's People which is pay per view although you can get quite a bit of detail using free searches.
Where did John McGowan & Kate (McLaughlin) McAllister marry in 1901? and how do you know he was 'from Dublin'?
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1911 Scottish census and Scottish vital records (births, marriages, deaths) are only on Scotland's People which is pay per view although you can get quite a bit of detail using free searches.
Where did John McGowan & Kate (McLaughlin) McAllister marry in 1901? and how do you know he was 'from Dublin'?
1911 Scottish census and Scottish vital records (births, marriages, deaths) are only on Scotland's People which is pay per view although you can get quite a bit of detail using free searches.
Where did John McGowan & Kate (McLaughlin) McAllister marry in 1901? and how do you know he was 'from Dublin'?
John and Kate were married in St Paul's RC Belfast.
When married she may have been pregnant, maybe not. But dying in Sept 1909 means that Mary and Lizzie ages must have been between 1 and 8 years old when Kate died.
John must have died between Feb 1901 and Sept 1909as Kate is registered as a widow on her death cert.
When Kate's 1st husband died, Con, my great Granda, she received compensation of £350 in Dec of 1897. That was a tidy sum of money then. She met John McGowan and the marriage registration doc says she was a "Lady".
Things must have gone badly wrong for her to die in the workhouse.
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The workhouse also served as the local infirmary in pre-HNS days and she died of cancer so that might have been why she was there.
Off to check a few more things...
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1911 Scottish census and Scottish vital records (births, marriages, deaths) are only on Scotland's People which is pay per view although you can get quite a bit of detail using free searches.
Where did John McGowan & Kate (McLaughlin) McAllister marry in 1901? and how do you know he was 'from Dublin'?
The marriage cert says that he was a retired Dublin policeman.
I' ve looked up the 1901 Ireland census for occupations of shoemaker and found those with McGowan surname but I cannot be sure of the ages.
Kate was 34 when she died and I imagine that John MaGowan may have been the same age or older,,,, all unknowns I'm afraid
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The Dublin Metropolitan Police list of men shows only
John McGowan, DMP 9794, born 1871, Tartaraghan, Co. Armagh
and
John McGowan, DMP 12315, born 1899, Ballinacarga, Co. Mayo (Garda).
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Marriage (1901)- his father listed as John McGowan-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10296/5748064.pdf
Policemen were not stationed in the county they (or their spouse) was born in so the John McGowan born 1871 Tartaraghan is a possibility.
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Marriage (1901)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10296/5748064.pdf
Policemen were not stationed in the county they (or their spouse) was born in so the John McGowan born 1871 Tartaraghan is a possibility
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The Dublin Metropolitan Police list of men shows only
John McGowan, DMP 9794, born 1871, Tartaraghan, Co. Armagh
and
John McGowan, DMP 12315, born 1899, Ballinacarga, Co. Mayo (Garda).
Is the DMP the same as RIC ?
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Kate was 34 when she died and I imagine that John MaGowan may have been the same age or older,,,, all unknowns I'm afraid
You said they are in Scotland in 1901 census- so what age is listed for John McGowan?
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Kate was 34 when she died and I imagine that John MaGowan may have been the same age or older,,,, all unknowns I'm afraid
You said they are in Scotland in 1901 census- so what age is listed for John McGowan?
Well done you. Scottish 1901 census says he was 35. However, it also says that Kate was 30 and that shows throws up a query as her death in 1909 says she was 34.
Proving to be a right nightmare.... will now go and check birth dates for her..... will check GRONI and Civil Records
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Think this might be Catherine's birth- father's occupation good match for 1901 census- Catherine O'Donnell McLaughlin born 1872 Ballycastle, mother's maiden name McMahon-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03226/2182409.pdf
Baptism- http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633083#page/41/mode/1up
Some possible siblings- **in 1901 census
Ann** (1864) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG1N-2JL
Andrew** (1868) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F594-GFW
Margaret (1870) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG86-24W
Josephina** born 1877- https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/03014/2104184.pdf
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Think this might be Catherine's birth- father's occupation good match for 1901 census- Catherine O'Donnell McLaughlin born 1872 Ballycastle, mother's maiden name McMahon-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03226/2182409.pdf
Baptism- http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633083#page/41/mode/1up
Some possible siblings- **in 1901 census
Ann** (1864) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG1N-2JL
Andrew** (1868) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F594-GFW
Margaret (1870) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG86-24W
Josephina** born 1877- https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/03014/2104184.pdf
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Wow, that is an excellent find. I have been trying to find her for some years but without success. However, I have been able to find her grave in Ballymena. The uncanny thing is there is no headstone to indicate her grave BUT the local guy who looks after the graveyard, he and I were having a chat one day and he was able to access records for the date of her burial and subsequently was able to say which plot she was buried in. He took me to the plot and was then able to inform me that the grave had been purchased on such and such date and in total the grave was opened 4 times for family burials, she was the last one to be buried.
Am so grateful for your help..... now eager to find out where and when John died.
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A timeline might help-
1894 Patrick McAllister born Ballymena
1895 Annie Kathleen McAllister born Clarence St., Ballymena
1897 (7 Aug.) Con McAllister died Townparks
1897 (18 Sept.) Constantine McAllister born Albert St., Ballymena
1901 (Feb.) Kate McAlister married John McGowan in Belfast
1901 (31 Mar.) John & Kate McGowan in Scotland
1901 (31 Mar.) Annie McAllister with McLaughlin grandparents in Ballymena
1909 (Sept.) Kate McGowan died Ballymena Workhouse- had had cancer for 18 months (early 1908) but could have been unwell before that
I would search for John McGowan's death (1902-1909) & births of 2 daughters in Scotland- starting with area where they were in 1901 census
It likely that Kate returned to Ballymena with her children after John McGowan died
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A timeline might help-
1894 Patrick McAllister born Ballymena
1895 Annie Kathleen McAllister born Clarence St., Ballymena
1897 (7 Aug.) Con McAllister died Townparks
1897 (18 Sept.) Constantine McAllister born Albert St., Ballymena
1901 (Feb.) Kate McAlister married John McGowan in Belfast
1901 (31 Mar.) John & Kate McGowan in Scotland
1901 (31 Mar.) Annie McAllister with McLaughlin grandparents in Ballymena
1909 (Sept.) Kate McGowan died Ballymena Workhouse- had had cancer for 18 months (early 1908) but could have been unwell before that
I would search for John McGowan's death (1902-1909) & births of 2 daughters in Scotland- starting with area where they were in 1901 census
It likely that Kate returned to Ballymena with her children after John McGowan died
Yes, I'll get my teeth into that during the week...... just had a flashback of something my father once said, he was referring to his cousin (not 1st cousin) who was the son of Mary McGowan, Mary married a guy with the surname of Smith / Smyth...... am off to research that one.
Once again a big thank you.
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Is the DMP the same as RIC ?
No, the DMP and RIC were two different police groups. The DMP were unarmed and limited to the Dublin area. The RIC were armed and nationwide.
In 1870, The average height of a DMP man was 5 feet, 10 inches, with an average weight of 12 stone, 11 1/2 pounds, so if your ancestor was a DMP man, he was a big man. Their helmets which were modelled on the London Metropolitan Police helmet, made them look even taller.
(http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/exhibition/dublin/law_order/Man&Policeman_EddenQuay_clar73.jpg)