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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: UnmentionedHero on Friday 27 January 17 21:42 GMT (UK)
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I am interested in Matson and Lushington's. Doverog et all won't find the marriage entry for Susanna Lushington and James in Hougham or Alkham, as they married in Hawkinge.
I have looked but cannot find it's actual image, but the East Kent Records state:
Kent, East Kent Marriage Index 1538-1754:
Groom: James Matson,
Born: 1663,
Age: 25,
Occupation: Yeoman,
Residence: Hougham,
Marriage Date: 31 May 1688,
Marriage place: Hawkinge,
Bride: Sus Lushington,
Born: 1668,
Age: 20, Residence: Alkham
It mentions nothing of the parents being deceased. I guess Canterbury archives may have the record. Also thye had al ot of children and a lot died. THe digitised records are from terrible poor copies of Baptisms at Hougham, but last child was Baptised at St Margaret's at Cliffe (almost impossible to read). For example I found three James (two previous died) and two Mary's (one died). Also had two set of twins (one lot boys and other girls).
I have three James, two Mary, one Elizabeth (Twin to Mary, both twins died days old), Stephen, Susanna, Sara, Will (William I assume), Nathaniel (spelt Nathanawell) and Jane.
These children aren't in order. James and Stephen were twins.
Marriage place:
31 May 1688 • St Michael's Church, Hawkinge, Kent, England
I suspect James parents are James and Mary of Sibertswold (Sheprdswell). This probably explains why James and Susanna named their children James and Mary repeatedly.
Any other info will be greatly received.
:)
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Hello UnmentionedHero.
That information is interesting as you seem to have found some different children.
I attach my current list.
I only have 2 James and 1 Mary.
I have the twins Mary and Elizabeth and the other twins James (died early) and Stephen.
I have Stephen, Susanna, Sarah, William, Nathaniel and Jane.
I can confirm that James Matson was a son of James (Jacobi) Matson 1630-1708 and Mary Pettit 1641-1714 who married 6th February 1661 at Eythorne or Shepherdswell.
The couple had 7 children, I can send more detail if you would like.
Do you have anymore about Susanna (Susan) Lushington? All I have is that she was born abt 1668 in Alkham from the marriage record.
Other information I have is -
The Matson Family Tree held at the Society of Genealogists and compiled by Dr. E.O. Goldsmith of Lowestoft records that James married an Elizabeth. This is unconfirmed.
James Matson of Hougham, Yeom., ba., 25 and Susan Lushington of Alkham, spr., 20, whose parents are dead at Alkham, Capel-le-Ferne or Hawkinge May 14 1688.
I don't have anymore about them and don't have a record to confirm their death etc.
Hope that's of help.
Please let me know if you would like more.
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Hi Doverog,
Just double checked my information. I will probably need reading glasses after this!
I agree with yours above, but there is an extra James and Mary. Here we go:
James Matson married Susanna Lushington at Hawkinge - no actual parish images on any of the websites the East Kent records have it, so I guess going into Canterbury is a possibility (sorry, but I'm not local).
John Lushington mentions in 'Gravelkind to Gentlemen' that some of the Lushington and other records are missing / poorly recorded due to the aftermath of the Tudors (Mary 1st insisting everything went back to Latin etc and then going back for Elizabeth 1st). many churches fell into disrepair and some records have been lost.
CHILDREN OF JAMES MATSON AND SUSANNA LUSHINGTON:
There could be more kids unaccounted for and the records are too poor to read or missing. I have given the Canterbury archive reference.
1) SARA
Sarah Matson
Baptism date: 07 Aug 1689
Archive: Canterbury Cathedral Archives
Archive reference: U3/49/1/1
Year range: 1659-1750
Record set: Kent, Canterbury Archdeaconry Baptisms 1538-1912
Sara is probably the first child after their Wedding in Hawkinge in 1688.
2) SUSANNAH
Baptism date: 19 Jul 1691
Place: Hougham, St Lawrence
Archive: Canterbury Cathedral Archives
Archive reference: U3/49/1/1
Year range: 1659-1750
3) JAMES - Number 1
He is the first son called James. He is buried at St. Lawrence Hougham on 28 Feb 1693, before the twins James and Stephen were born and Baptised (July that year). We can assume he was born either in 1692 (after Susannah 1691):
James Matson
Burial date: 28 Feb 1693
Burial place: Hougham, St Lawrence
Father's first name(s): James
Mother's first name(s): Susan
Archive: Canterbury Cathedral Archives
Archive reference: U3/49/1/1
Year range: 1659-1750
Need to look at Burial entries for the above James.
4) STEPHEN - twin of JAMES number 2
Stephen Matson
Baptism date: 25 Jul 1693
Place: Hougham, St Lawrence
Archive: Canterbury Cathedral Archives
Archive reference: U3/49/1/1
Year range : 1659-1750
5) JAMES - Number 2, Twin of STEPHEN
James Matson
Baptism date: 25 Jul 1693
Place: Hougham, St Lawrence
Archive: Canterbury Cathedral Archives
Archive reference: U3/49/1/1
Year range : 1659-1750
6) WILLIAM
William Matson
Baptism date: 05 Dec 1695
Place: Hougham, St Lawrence
Archive reference: U3/49/1/1
To save typing, I just omitted parents and archive etc, as we know its Canterbury Archives.
7) JAMES - Number 3 - His brothers called James have died and been buried (missing a burial for James 2), or they had James number 2 baptised a second time, but looking at the pattern, I find it more likely they renamed another baby James.
James Matson
Baptism date: 06 Oct 1698
Place: Hougham, St Lawrence
Father's first name(s): James
Mother's first name(s): Susanna
Archive: Canterbury Cathedral Archives
Archive reference: U3/49/1/1
8) NATHANIEL or NATHANUWELL or Nathaniel
Nathanawell Matson
Baptism date: 11 May 1701
Place: Hougham, St Lawrence
Archive: Canterbury Cathedral Archives
Archive reference: U3/49/1/1
Year range: 1659-1750
9) JANE
Jane Matson
Baptism date: 06 Jun 1703
Place: Hougham, St Lawrence
Archive reference U3/49/1/1
see next post
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Part 2 no longer available.
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Hello again.
Firstly I wonder if the Administrator of this site should move our discussions to a new thread as the current title is primarily about the Hyders? I will send a message via the Contact Support button.
Perhaps Matson and Lushington families would be a better title for this part of the thread?
I've worked through your pdf and, as you say, it pretty much confirms the records I had.
I'm not so sure about 2 Marys though and I will spend more time looking through my records and get back to you. The marriage is in my records but I couldn't be sure how to tie it in.
The marriages with the Rogers family are also complicated. Again I will look through my records.
I have lodged a Family History of the Matsons of East Kent in a number of archives where various branches of the family have worked with me in the past. The last revision I made was in December 2014. Since then I have only noted new information as it has come through as people have been in contact.
I am very happy to send you a copy if it's of help. It's 22.1mb Word doc. So rather large to send via email etc. If you would like a copy on a disc the send me your address via a private message and I would be happy to copy the document and send it to you.
This is a link to an earlier version placed on line by the State Library of New South Wales -
http://acms.sl.nsw.gov.au/_transcript/2014/D32715/a1453.pdf
I'm not sure which versions are available on line from other archives etc but on a quick skip through this seems to be the most recent.
I will also take a look at what I have re the Lushingtons. In the meantime I attach a copy of William Lushington Matsons' will which you may already have. (File too large - will retry)
I'm looking for the James Matsons' will and will get back to you on that one.
Are you aware of Colin Matsons' work 'Domestic Pilgrimage"?
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Will for William Lushington Matson is too large to post sorry.
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Thanks Doverog, I will get back to you. The version is 2009.
I looked last night at the Lushington stuff and there is little to connect the dots. The research in the book only really covers up to mid 1600s, so you need to know who married who and was a child of who in between 1650 to 1790 ish. Then I think all the pieces will fall into place.
Seems that Richard Redman of St Margaret's at Cliffe married to Mary Matson is key. If I can confirm that her parents are the same James and Susanna Matson (nee Lushington), then we can connect the dots a bit more.
Next part is to track all James Matsons and Susanna Lushingtons and all children with parents James and Susanna in the time window of 1675 to 1730. This may help us catch them.
I tried it already and only came up with Mary being born at St Margerets at CLiffe to SUsanna and James Matson. Also the marriage of Jane Matson in same parish, may indicate that they moved from Hougham. The Lushingtons moved about alot.
The Kent research is a new bit of my research as I have been working on stuff on another branch for another relative (not Matsons Lushingtons etc) that went back to 1050!
I have an entire grandparent line that is from Kent (in fact my Grandparents were from different ends of the country and I discovered they shared a cousin via Kent!) I have been researching for over 10 years and always put this part of the history off due to not being local. I managed to solve 3 mysteries and track down a relative that ran off (he's dead now). The impossible mysteries (one chap moving all over country in 1800s and changing his name 5 times) I solved, but Kent is a minefield to negotiate.
Staffordshire is another minefield and they are linked to the Burvilles, the records there seem as problematic as Kent. I am making progress there significantly.
KENT AREAS OF INTEREST:
I do have Taylors, Redmans, Christians, Eatons, Nash, Partridge, Bailey, Shrewsbury, Lancaster, Castle, Acotts... to name a few in the Kent side, so any collaboration is a good thing.
NON KENT AREAS
I am good at finding stuff in West Country, Hampshire (Portsmouth is a minefield too, but lots of Newspaper archives), London and Essex, Dorset and Somerset. Scotland for someone else is a problem, as the Scots charge you £3.50 to do a search of archives that aren't very well digitised. Hampshire requires visiting and again they charge by the 30 minutes at Winchester.
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Just had a look on line and both findmypast and family search have the marriage taking place at Hawkhurst Kent. Same names and dates but no image. You may need to double check this at the Maidstone archives who hold the records for this village.
Hope it helps
Regards panda
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Just had a look on line and both findmypast and family search have the marriage taking place at Hawkhurst Kent. Same names and dates but no image. You may need to double check this at the Maidstone archives who hold the records for this village.
Hope it helps
Regards panda
They both seem to have their information from familysearch.
Ancestry quotes two film numbers
FHL Film Number 1751915 Reference ID: item 2
which relates to Hawkinge
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&query=%2Bfilm_number%3A1751915
FHL Film Number 1736725 Reference ID: item 4
which relates to Hawkinge
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=20&query=%2Bfilm_number%3A1736725
It looks as though the ancestry & FindMyPast transcripts could be wrong :-\
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I've been looking through and I now agree with two Mary Matsons as children of James Matson and Susanna/Susan Lushington.
So I now think we have 11 children.
I attach my list and also on the right is a list of the Lushingtons I have -
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The last update i did on my Matson history was dated December 2014 and i called it v 3.3.
I don't believe that version is on line.
Any future updates will be v 4.
I attach a lovely drawing of the Matson Family Coat of Arms based on Halstead and drawn by Dorothy Matson who was the wife of Colin Matson.
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Hi Doverog,
Yep Doverog, I spent this evening rechecking all my research and it was orignally correct with regard to the 2 Marys. I am glad you agree. I think the one indicator is one son was buried at St Margaret's at Cliffe before Mary 2's birth.
Also Mary's sister Jane marries Thomas Rogers at West Cliffe a few months after Mary marries Richard Redman (entry is next in book and on same page).
I made a note of all the Susan / Susannah Lushingtons over 130 year span, to work out a possible birth place (or area) of the wife of James. I have roughly worked out who the other Susan / Susannah Lushingtons were possibly related to. I will do more work on that over next few days etc.
JAMES MATSON's WIFE IS NOT:
I know that she didn't come from Dymchurch. We can discount Edward and Susan Lushington and their children (Susan, Mary Robert, Robert 2).
We can discount a Susannah Lushington wife of Robert Lushington, buried at Dymchurch on 14 May 1700.
We can discount Sousanna / Seusanna Lushington who was married to John Lushington at Leeds, Kent. They had daughters Elenor and Mary.
We can discount Susannah Lushington who married David Lesley in 1725.
We can discount Susan Lushington who married Rev William Russell at Eythorn and Alkham.
:)
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The Marriage Of James Matson and Susannah Lushington, i am certain is Hawkinge. Its not Hawkhurst. Hawkinge is nearer Hougham, Alkham and St Margaret's at Cliffe.
I noticed that Buckland St Andrew was a suggestion (this church is near Alkham and Hougham too), but I still think it's St Michael's Hawkinge. We're never going to have 100% of all the information.
Anyone going to Maidstone archive may be lucky enough to find it, but I've been through all the digitised transcripts on FindMyPast and looked at Family Search and Ancestry - actual images for all those places mentioned by Cowper and other churches nearby and the information for that marriage is missing. The Hawkinge parish register doesn't cover that year).
Some records according to John Lushington - Author of Gavelkind to Gentlemen, states some of the records no longer exist. He also suggests that due to the religious and political issues years before (including Black death etc), many of the churches fell into disrepair and Baptisms etc were not recorded or books lost.
I noticed looking at some of the actual digitised pages of BMDs for some churches, one Vicar for example had written a note in mind 1800s mentioning he'd found a book stuffed at the back of a church room badly damaged and had had it rebound to try an save it. The baptism went back to 1500s here. Cannot remember which parish.
I am confident it is Hawkinge, as Hawkhurst is no where near where these two lived and had children etc.
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The Marriage Of James Matson and Susannah Lushington, i am certain is Hawkinge. Its not Hawkhurst. Hawkinge is nearer Hougham, Alkham and St Margaret's at Cliffe.
As I said earlier the online transcript is referenced to Hawkinge parish not Hawkhurst according to the LDS film number. As always transcripts should be checked with the original record ;)
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I thought that posting a chart of the Lushington family members I have might help.
As you can see there are gaps as I have not researched further other than info. I came across from other Matson records.
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I should add my sources -
Canterbury Cathedral Archives (Henry).
Source: Archdeaconry Court of Canterbury Vol 70 f.617, Probate 25 Aug 1638
John Lushington of Stellinge, yeoman, will dated 14 Aug 1638
To be buried at Elmsted
John Taylor the elder, Minister
Daughter Mary wife of George Pilcher
Grandchild Ann Pilcher
Daughter Ann Lushington
Sisters Mary Kember and Elizabeth Goulder
Wife Ann
Sons Henry and John
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Hi Doverog,
I will have a look at this, but from a quick glance it seams to agree with some of my new research. I like to plot siblings marriages and children and grandchildren. It helps eliminate people with same names.
I managed to find a whole load of things about Lushingtons on British History on line and in National Archives. There is so much there, it will take me a while to plough through, but I will get back to you.
There are also lots of Wills transcribed for Lushingtons and I've managed to start working out who is who (cousins etc) from that. I have cross referenced with headstone inscriptions and it all seems to tally. I like to be thorough.
I know someone on Ancestry had saved the wrong parents to Mary Matson (our Mary 2) married Richard Redman. They said the father was John Matson who married widowed Ann Boys (she married her cousin Thomas Boys of Betteshanger, who died without issue). John is a sibling of the correct father of Mary 2, James who married Susanna Lushington. John's first wife was Mary Goldfinch (her father is Stephen Goldfinch of Eastry).
I notice that lots of people have blindly copied the wrong parents of Mary 2, as often happens on sites. I am glad that I found this post and there are people who are trying to get accurate trees.
Will get back to you.
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I agree, just copying something is how we end up with the wrong info.
I've made a lot of mistakes and had to correct them as I'm sure we all do.
The thrill of handling the original documents always gives such a thrill and beats any computer copy hands over fist.
I have split the Lushington Matson will into 4 sections and will try to post them.
Can't post all 4 so will try as 4 posts each of 1 section.
The family is one I couldn't tie in although he clearly is related.
My sources include Canterbury Cathedral as well as the will.
I have a lot of "loose" Matsons especially Johns!!!!!!!
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2nd part
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3rd part
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4th and last part.
I hope you can tie this family in somewhere
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Hello Doverrog - I will email you - but just came on to see in anything about the Waipu NZ Matsons as I have now moved here. Lushington interested me as Harbour Master Henry Matson (b. 1814) had a major run-in with a Lushington Goodwin in Tassie - wonder if it was a co-incidence - or there was family history there? I have also found another Matson relative close by. Still digging?
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Some notes which refer to the Lushington connection -
Following the wreck of the convict ship George 111 in 1835, Henry went on to experience character defamation from William Lushington Goodwin - who referred to him as 'tactless aggressive and rude'. Possibly suffering from paranoia William Goodwin had applied for the job taken by Matthew Curling Friend and was bitter as a result - and it seems that Henry got caught by cross fire!
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Hi Doverog,
LUSHINGTON MATSON Will 1789:
Excuse the absence, but I was checking and cross checking the Matsons, Jekins and Philpots to try and unravel the jigsaw a bit more. In the course of my digging, I have found the possible baptism for Lushington Matson!
He is likely the son of Stephen an Ann Matson. Stephen is the son of James Matson and Susanna Lusshinton (Stephen was born JUL 1693 • Hougham, Kent, England) and the twin bother of one of the James Matson.
I have found a baptism entry for Lushington Matson and the name matches the transcription of Grandmother Susanna Lusshinton's maiden name. The dates fit with the ages and the place of Baptism with what we know about that family (grandparents James and Susanna).
Lusshinton Matson (mis-transcribed as Lushinten Matson on various websites, but on closer inspection it looks to me like Lusshinton):
Baptised on:16 Jul 1725
Baptised at: St Margaret-at-Cliffe Church, St Margaret-at-Cliffe, Kent, England
Parents Stephen Matson and Ann
Canterbury Cathedral Archives,
Archive reference: U3/200,
Year range: 1701-1761,
Record set: Kent, Canterbury Archdeaconry Baptisms 1538-1912
Hope this helps?
MATSONS / PHILPOTS
I have some more information about earlier Matsons, but will involve another thread about Matsons and Philpots. I have found Henry Philpot's marriage entry and I suspected that Alice (married to James Matson who died in 1593) was probably Henrey / Henry's sister. Henry's son Thomas Philpot, a Captain mentions Alice and James Matson's son Robert in his will, as his cousen!
You have Henry as a possible father to Alice and her maiden name as Philpot. I felt this may be wrong and that if any relation, she may have been a sibling. Henry's marriage is well beyond the date of Alice's birth, infact it is just before Alice Marries James Matson at the same church. I can email you what I know if easier.
This would also back up my hunch of Robert Matson being the nephew of Henry Philpot (Thomas' father). In your research you mention that Thomas Philpot adopts the Matson children - do you have any evidence (I am not close to Kent Archives to pop in)? If this is the case, then the cousin will be adopting his cousins.
I have found what I think is James Matson and Alice’s marriage entry. Based upon my other research into Philpots, I am clear that Alice is in fact Henry's wife's (Judith Leigh / Lee, daughter of David Leigh) sister and her name is Alice Lee or Leigh. Definite evidence to support this with the Philpot family - tree mentioned in visitations.
I will continue a new thread, as there is rather a lot here, but the marriage place for them is Barham (this ties up with other Matson's who owned Digges Place and the Black Mill etc - John Matson Mayor of Dover).
:)
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You really have been busy.
I agree with everything you've discovered re the Matsons and Lushington. So many thanks for clearing the link up. I was lost on the one!
The Philpots are definitely another issue. I'm very sketchy about them and clearly need to expand on what I have recorded. When I did record I was very much Matson focused.
I will go through on your other thread as it involves a lot of digging for me. Can you please post a link to the new thread?
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I have created the start of a thread to PHILPOT / PHILIPOT with hope of encouraging more research that connect immediate families of MATSON, LEE or LEIGH, MERRIWETHER, GLOVER, in Kent.
I've titled it as follows:
PHILPOT philipot IN KENT (Connections to Matsons, Glovers, Leighs Lees)
:)
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Thanks for the link I will take a look.
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This is rather lovely to see! At Hull Minster we have a Matson stray, a young lady called Mary who died in 1688, while living with or visiting her sister Margaret (b.1648), wife of James Houseman.
Her heraldic ledger is rather worn, but it has these arms set in a lozenge.
best wishes,
Marianne