RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => South Africa => Topic started by: John1935 on Saturday 28 January 17 14:28 GMT (UK)
-
Having lost contact with P.W.T ( my South African contact ), I am hoping someone can help me with the document below, as I have no idea what it might be.
It is taken from Free State Archives and it appears to concern one of my Great Grand Uncles - Henry Edward Tillman 1834-1900 and two of his three wives! Poor Caroline died in childbirth,after a few years he married Eliza Stevens and when she died - Emily ( Elizas's younger sister) who like Caroline is mentioned on the Document.
Have read off the following, worked out the English for Eggenotes & Gebore and now stuck !!
Depot : VAB - Source: MHG - Type: LEER - Volume NO: 0 - System: 01 -
Reference : T912 - Part: I - Description ( As above - except Eliza not mentioned!)
Starting and ending both 18990000
Henry Edward was a Carriage Lamp Maker, who lived worked - and as far as I can see died in London - so maybe concerns only Emily??
Long long time since I was down your way ( on the 'lavender HULL boats')
If I press right buttons maybe what I am trying to attach will work took this on'naf' camera April 1952 while on the M.V.Richmond Castle - might be of interest as they will be , I am sure someone's Mum or Gran.
Best John1935
-
Here is his estate https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9LW-JN32?mode=g&i=671&cat=195564
-
My apologies also misread the document. He died in 1899 in Hampstead London. On the 8/10/1907 she applied in Bloemfontein South Africa for a certificate from the court so she could get remarried. He left her no assets and she was working earning her own living. His first wife was Caroline Thomson, second wife Emily Stevens, they had a daughter Edith aged 22 in 1907, not sure if she was in South Africa as well.
-
Thank you pampoen
got cross message - how would I find out when they went over as had him down as died 1899. Have you more on Emily - She had a daughter ( before she knew Henry) and he adopted Edith Violet when they married, by the time we are talking about daughter had Married a wounded Canadian Soldier from the WWI
Best
John
-
i cannot find a marriage for Emily as I do not know who she married. http://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/passenger-lists-leaving-uk-1890-1960 only has passenger lists from 1890-1960.
-
Good Morning pampeon
Must say you got me going there, giving old Henry another seven years, so I rechecked including his probate,in which he left Emily over £ 100. Not sure where Edith Violet was at that time, but no signs of travel, and do know from her daughter that she worked in a Munitions factory during WWI.
In passing Henry had an elder brother and three younger ones, all but one worked making Carriage Lamps, and of course he had a sister - Our Lavinia who married a William Angas (with an 'A' not a'U) and went to live in Sunderland. Much Later the Son of the youngest brother also went out to S.A. Have you family connections, if so please contact on PM. If not ( or either way) thank you very much
for your work.
On the first that you sent I could not however see the full page?
Best
John
-
Whoops - pushed correct button and have other two pages. On those Emily states that she came from U.K. in 1903, but had only been in Bloomfontein for 17 months - were there Electoral rolls around that time ?
If marriage records exist, we could assume that having got the permission, that she would have got married in Bloomfontein in 1907, and before Christmas but to Who ?
Think she died around 1927 ?
Only possible voyage I can find is in 1904 - A Mrs Tillman travelling in Cabin Class ( so no details given! )
left Southampton 2nd July a passenger for Algoa Bay - Port Elizabeth on a ship called 'Goorkha' reg No. 106917 - has anyone more details of ship -she had 300 passengers aboard.
Another try at a photo of a photo, which I think was already out of focus- but was an event to remember. Uhm , sorry a naf try !
Best
John
-
To answer my own question and so not to waste others time - Have found details of the above ship and photo, which I will try to attach, as if she carried 300 passengers to S.A. on a regular basis, there is a good chance that people reading this might have had relatives arrive on her.
Back to Emily - why did she go out - maybe one of two possibilities - with a friend or to work. Now all I can use is 'Fuzzy Logic' - which to me says - in those days for a lady to travel own her own that distance to search for a job was not so usual - to be employed at a distance?? not likely.
The only help in this case, is that Emily was going to Port Elizabeth, whereas the majority were for Capetown.
Now whereas in steerage all passengers were in alphabetical order - in Cabin class no, so listed by cabin numbers - On one side of Emily was a Mr E.L. Broom, and in the cabin next to him was Miss Luards - the other side to Emily were Mrs & Miss Bidgood - ALL landed at P.E.
If by now you have not switched off - my fuzzy logic is saying - if she was with Mr Broom, then maybe it was he that she married in 1907 or Emily might have been employed by Mrs Bidgood (in London)to look after her daughter and be travelling out with them ??
OKAY that's all Folks - any help is welcome.
Best
John
-
John no family connection, just trying to help out. Just to confirm Henry never lived in South Africa? His wife Emily however came out here. If Henry was dead and died in London why did Emily have to go to court for a letter?
Now I had a family member come out from the UK and could not find her. Someone then found her on shipping list where single/widowed females were paid to go to South Africa by ship to work as nurse aids, cleaners etc and ended up marrying single men. Will have to see if I can find that article. South Africa destroys all electoral info and none is available for viewing. Have a look at these sites https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/features/jun08.shtml
-
This article may explain why Emily was excited to go to Africa http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/09612029400200056
-
Thanks again Pampoen
this time I did hit wrong button -Sorry
so restarted!!
John
-
Thanks again Pampoen
An interesting couple of sites - think will copy the articles and forward to Trump !!!
Why an earth did they not keep Electoral roll, thank goodness your country and N.Z. otherwise would not have found our lot out there, or old Charlie Angas N.Z's Tennis champion.
You are correct Henry never went out and died leaving his will to 'Emily Stevens', so whether they actually married or not ? but she was down as his wife on the Census- so will could have been made before they officially ? married.HE left her £177 and probate was cleared by 10th May just a month after he died - SO Emily was a bit liberal on what she told the man in Bloomfontein, to say the least.
Just can find no other female Tillmans going to S.A. either side of 1903 ( which is when she stated she came over). Hope above gives insight (Fuzzy Logic style) to what might -have appeared - or seemed to have happened.
Best
John
-
Here is the second marriage of Emily thanks to some kind people on Facebook. Here is her second marriage: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BY-51C4?mode=g&i=1128&cat=677602
-
That is really great, after slowly going through 192 Marriage entries on the Archives Bloemfontein site, with no success yesterday had thought would never find it.
Great thanks to Facebook and their efforts also please.
Think that is as far as I need to go and hope it all worked out well for Emily .
Before signing off another photo of ships long gone, this is the 'M.V. Rowallan Castle', another one I sailed on, we did carry max of 12 passengers time to time, mostly going to Rhodesia via Capetown, and if( which was quite usual we had animals on-board)- t'was us Cadets who looked after them !! I once had sole charge of a Black Swan for Port Elizabeth - a problem to keep it happy when in the Tropics.
Many Thanks again
Best
John
-
Very interesting John. In closing I must also mention that my uncle Reg Austin started off as the tea boy with Union Castle Safmarine and ended up being the CEO of Union Castle Safmarine in Cape Town.
Regards Derek