RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: ladyk on Wednesday 25 January 17 03:47 GMT (UK)
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A challenge for anyone who loves to dig! (I have used rootsireland quite a bit in my search already, just to let you know)
I'm researching McLaughlins in Derry, trying to pinpoint the bio father for my gr-grandfather, who was born in a poorhouse in Scotland, father unnamed. I had my Dad's dna done, and the results indicate that the mystery man's surname is likely McLaughlin (or derivative thereof) and that he was likely Irish. Upon examining and analyzing the people who match my father's dna and who have trees posted, I have discovered a McLaughlin family that FOUR of his matches have on their trees. My problem is, I need to figure out which member of this McLaughlin family was the culprit!
All four of these dna matches to my Dad descend from children of Daniel McLaughlin (b abt 1835-1840 in Derry) and Elizabeth Cummins or Cummings (b 1844 Magilligan, Derry). The man I'm looking for would have had to have been an adult and in the area of Paisley/Glasgow Scotland in April of 1871, which was when my gr-grandfather was conceived. Meaning that Daniel, if he happened to be in Scotland, could have been him.
However, he could well have been a brother of Daniel or even a cousin. Problem is, I cannot identify Daniel's parents and do not know of any brothers. I did find a couple through rootsireland records named Patrick McLaughlin and Margaret MacHugh who had a son Daniel in Ballycarton, Magilligan in 1835 who could be his parents, but can't make the connection for certain. Daniel did die in 1877 in Ballycarton, Derry.
All of Daniel's children were born in either Ballycarton or Bellarena in Derry. However, there is one tantalizing tidbit. A Hannah McLaughlin was born in Kilbarchan, Renfr., Scotland in 1868 and her parents are Daniel McLaughlin and Elizabeth Cummins. The mother of my gr-grandfather lived in Renfrewshire at that time and through the birth of her child in 1872. The child Hannah would fit perfectly into the McLaughlin family, as they had their first child in 1866 and then children in 1870, 1872, 1874 and 1876... in other words every 2 years except for the "hole" where Hannah would fit.
Could Daniel and Elizabeth have had family in Scotland where they happened to be for whatever reason when their daughter Hannah was born?
There is one Daniel McLaughlin who I found who was a sailor on a ship that traveled between Ireland and the Scottish ports, but the record lists this Daniel as having been born in Antrim, so I don't think that would have been him. However, he was discharged, according to the record, in 1876, just a year prior to my Daniel's death, so..... ??
There are records of other Irish McLaughlin men who came to Scotland to work, either in the mills, the shipyards or as sugar laborers, who are of an age to have been the father too, but I cannot match any of these to the family of my Dad's dna matches, Daniel's family.
Any ideas on where I might go from here would be of help. I am bound and determined to find my gr-gr-grandfather McLaughlin! Luckily, there was a very good census in 1871 in the very month when he was conceived, but the McLaughlin man may not have been a resident and not counted at all. Interestingly, I cannot find the mother (Caroline Reid b. 1848) in that census at all, nor her one year old son whom she had at that time (elder brother to my gr-gr-grandfather).
Anyway, enough rambling and let me know if anyone thinks of any avenue of research I might take next!
Kat
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Hi,
The Griffiths Valuation of Ballycarton, printed in 1858, shows three McLaughlin/McLoughlin families living in Ballycarton. James and John McLoughlin lived in the part of Ballycarton in Tamlaghtard (Magilligan) parish and Michael McLaughlin lived in the Aghanloo parish part. Variations of spelling were common in Griffiihs. The 1831 census shows six McLaughlin families in Ballycarton. See http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
Unfortunately McLaughlin us a very common name in the area.
Regards
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I think it's been explained to you before that you probably won't be able to find exactly which McLaughlin, if any, was the father of John Reid.
People from Ulster travelled back and forth between there and Scotland frequently (looking for work, visiting relatives, etc.) so the father may not have been in Scotland any length of time.
From an earlier (9 page) thread-
I wondered if that was the case too Isobel, but the first son William was born in Neilston Jun 1870.
The census of 1871 was taken on 2 Apr 1871.
Caroline's 2nd son was born in Abbey Poorhouse in Jan 1872.
If Caroline was in the Poorhouse between Apr 1871 and Jan 1872, it suggests that she was in there when she became pregnant for the 2nd time?
Unless she entered, left and re entered over an 18 month period
Towards the end of that thread (reply #73) you say-
"There were a total of 59 dna matches to my Dad at 37 markers. Out of that 59 there were 13 whose names were McLaughlin or a derivative thereof. The next most frequently occurring names were Donnelly and Dougherty, each with 4 matches. No other name had more than 2 occurrences among the matches on the list."
Another thread on John Reid-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=644369.0
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The McLachlan/McLaughlan/McLaughlin etc sugar workers (50+ found to date) in Scotland are listed at www.mawer.clara.net/sugarmmac.html
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I think it's been explained to you before that you probably won't be able to find exactly which McLaughlin, if any, was the father of John Reid.]
It doesn't need to be explained to me. I know that it is a difficult task, but it is far from impossible. Already I have identified the family that he is most likely from. DNA from ancestry allows you to compare the amount of dna shared with the level of cousin that you would be in any given scenario, which further helps to narrow it down. FTDNA and gedmatch have more features for analyzing dna shared between two or more individuals. It is even possible, in some cases, to identify on which chromosome a particular ancestor's dna was passed down, and use that to compare dna matches. So, while it is certainly a complex process that is not guaranteed to result in success, there are many ways to narrow the search and then come to a "likely" conclusion as to who the individual was, if not identify him for certain.
[People from Ulster travelled back and forth between there and Scotland frequently (looking for work, visiting relatives, etc.) so the father may not have been in Scotland any length of time.]
Exactly so. Many Irish traveled back & forth to Scotland. The census of 1871 is only one resource, and I'm aware that he may not have been counted in it at all. It could help to identify his family, though, depending on other variables that may come to light.
[From an earlier (9 page) thread-
I wondered if that was the case too Isobel, but the first son William was born in Neilston Jun 1870.
The census of 1871 was taken on 2 Apr 1871.
Caroline's 2nd son was born in Abbey Poorhouse in Jan 1872.
If Caroline was in the Poorhouse between Apr 1871 and Jan 1872, it suggests that she was in there when she became pregnant for the 2nd time?
Unless she entered, left and re entered over an 18 month period]
Records have surfaced that indicate that Caroline was not in the poorhouse prior to being admitted in 1871, already pregnant with her second child, my gr-grandfather.
[Towards the end of that thread (reply #73) you say-
"There were a total of 59 dna matches to my Dad at 37 markers. Out of that 59 there were 13 whose names were McLaughlin or a derivative thereof. The next most frequently occurring names were Donnelly and Dougherty, each with 4 matches. No other name had more than 2 occurrences among the matches on the list."
Since that test, I have had the dna results extended out to 67 markers. All but two results remaining at that level are named McLaughlin or similar spelling.
Another thread on John Reid-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=644369.0
Yes, isn't this a wonderful thread? So much generous help was extended to me! I would not be as far along in my search today if it had not been for their help. I made some new friends in the process to boot! The internet is a wonderful thing, isn't it. ;)
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Hi,
The Griffiths Valuation of Ballycarton, printed in 1858, shows three McLaughlin/McLoughlin families living in Ballycarton. James and John McLoughlin lived in the part of Ballycarton in Tamlaghtard (Magilligan) parish and Michael McLaughlin lived in the Aghanloo parish part. Variations of spelling were common in Griffiihs. The 1831 census shows six McLaughlin families in Ballycarton. See http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
Unfortunately McLaughlin us a very common name in the area.
Regards
Thank-you, this does help! I thought I had looked at Griffiths, but must not have noted it. John and James McLaughlin of Ballycarton have come up in my meanderings. Will give them a second look.
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The McLachlan/McLaughlan/McLaughlin etc sugar workers (50+ found to date) in Scotland are listed at www.mawer.clara.net/sugarmmac.html
Thanks for this suggestion. He could well have been a sugar worker, as someone who matches my Dad's dna and has McLaughlin ancestors had mentioned that they did go to, I believe it was Greenock, as sugar workers. Wonderful!
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"I think it's been explained to you before that you probably won't be able to find exactly which McLaughlin, if any, was the father of John Reid."
By the way, it's 2 yrs and 9 mos since this post, and I just wanted to let you know that I was successful in identifying the father of John Reid using dna, supported by a subsequent record search, once I knew who I was looking for. His name was Dominick McLaughlin (not his brother Daniel, as I first suspected) from Magilligan in Derry, Ireland. He came to Scotland in 1870 for work and there met my gr-gr-grandmother who was apparently making some pennies on the streets. Even she likely did not know who the father of her son was, but I do! Almost certainly he didn't know that he had a son, not to mention a gr-gr-granddaughter who would refuse to give up her quest to identify him. I've written a novel based on the life of this gr-gr-grandmother and her sons. Her story is alternated with chapters about the research which lead me to the answers to so many questions. I'm hoping to sell it to a publisher, but if that doesn't happen, I will self-publish. Look for it in bookstores, it is called "Green Among the Clovers" !!
Cheers! ;D
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Hi Lady K,
The James Mc Laughlin mentioned in the Griffith Valuation by Kingskerswell is most likely my 5X great Grandfather . He is the father of my 4xgreat Grandmother Sarah Jane Mc Laughlin who married James Cummings.
Now I have been trying to find any further information about James and have done DNA testing along with our siblings. It seems that James Mc Laughlin may have been from the Inishowen Peninsula as one of my brothers got that as part of his ethnicity . A lot of his matches and my matches lead back to Laughlin/ Mc Laughlins of the Inishowen Peninsular area. These Laughlin/ Mc Laughlin matches are also shared matches with my Cummings Ones.
I look forward to reading your book when it is published.
The Elizabeth Cummings who married Daniel Mc Laughlin is also an ancestor of mine as well.
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Oh wow! Daniel McLaughlin who married Eliz. Cummings is my gr-gr-uncle! It is his brother Dominick who is the father of my gr-grandfather. Elizabeth's brother David shows up in Scotland in the 1881 census living with Dominick and his wife, which was one of the clues that cemented my conclusion as to who my mystery man was. (Dominick would have been his sister's brother-in-law) There were so many McLaughlins in Northern Ireland back then, likely still are, I suppose. Your grx5 grandfather James may be also an ancestor of mine, as I haven't gotten beyond Dominick's parents names on that line. They would be my grx3 grandparents, John and Jane McLaughlin. Anyway, yes, do watch for my book! Thanks for commenting.
K.
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"I think it's been explained to you before that you probably won't be able to find exactly which McLaughlin, if any, was the father of John Reid."
By the way, it's 2 yrs and 9 mos since this post, and I just wanted to let you know that I was successful in identifying the father of John Reid using dna, supported by a subsequent record search, once I knew who I was looking for. His name was Dominick McLaughlin (not his brother Daniel, as I first suspected) from Magilligan in Derry, Ireland. He came to Scotland in 1870 for work and there met my gr-gr-grandmother who was apparently making some pennies on the streets. Even she likely did not know who the father of her son was, but I do! Almost certainly he didn't know that he had a son, not to mention a gr-gr-granddaughter who would refuse to give up her quest to identify him. I've written a novel based on the life of this gr-gr-grandmother and her sons. Her story is alternated with chapters about the research which lead me to the answers to so many questions. I'm hoping to sell it to a publisher, but if that doesn't happen, I will self-publish. Look for it in bookstores, it is called "Green Among the Clovers" !!
Cheers! ;D
Hi Lady K, this is fantastic news. i know this is an older thread but i just today discovered the family of my 3rd great grandfather Daniel, Dominick's brother Daniel is my 3rd great grandfather.
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Religion?
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Religion?
Is this in regards to the McLaughlins? They were Catholic. Why do you ask?
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Hi Lady K, this is fantastic news. i know this is an older thread but i just today discovered the family of my 3rd great grandfather Daniel, Dominick's brother Daniel is my 3rd great grandfather.
Hello, cousin! I have many cousins related via Daniel. That's why I thought, at first, that he must be the father of my gr-grandfather, but I couldn't place him in Scotland at the time my gr-grandfather would have been conceived. It was the 1851 census abstract that gave me the names of Daniel's other siblings, including Dominick, that led me in the other direction. Dominick had two daughters, both of whom died without issue, so that's why I wasn't finding any cousins descended from him, but only from his brother! Glad to meet you, Calvin, where are you living? I'm in Massachusetts, USA.
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Religion?
Is this in regards to the McLaughlins? They were Catholic. Why do you ask?
No point in me saying R.C. Registers are online, Free, if they were not R.C.!!
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0370 Iskaheen and others via Map thereon. If they cover years tou need...
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Religion?
Is this in regards to the McLaughlins? They were Catholic. Why do you ask?
A knowledge of the religion of your ancestors is a vital piece of knowledge if searching in Ireland. The census in 1901/1911 has a section for religion and this as well as a knowledge of their location, down to townland level can help eliminate entries and help you home in on ones that are more likely to be correct.