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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: dadumc on Tuesday 24 January 17 01:14 GMT (UK)
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Can someone help here? My name is David McKean (half the family pronounces it as Mc Keen and the other hald say Mc Ian. My question is the most recent generations use the McKean spelling but previous generations used the McKen spelling. Does this give a hint as to where even earlier generations came from? Is there a real difference between the 2 spellings? Thank you!
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Hi,
Many names have many variants for different reasons.
Most people were illiterate in days gone by i.e. whoever was taking info. would write down how 'they' thought it should be spelt.
Spellings transpired from people's accents.
A name given by someone with an Irish accent could sound so different from the same name given in a Scottish accent or how it sounded to an Englishman etc.
Hope this answers your question.
You will only find the changes by going backwards in your tree.
I have one surname with approx. 12 variations of spelling & the name for 1 person could change from birth, marriage, name on a childs birth/marriage & their death ::)
Very costly in terms of researching them I can assure you :o
Annie
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Thank you. My line seems to stop with Thomas McKen (born 1766, son of David). I was hoping maybe the name variants would lead to the next leaf on the tree.
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You haven't given any indication of where the name is from?
I'm surprised there aren't more variations such as MacKin, McKain, McKane etc.
The name actually sounds Irish?
Annie
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Thomas is born in Larbert, Stirling, Scotland.
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You really need to give more info. for others who may be connected & be able to relate to your post (pun not intended).
Names/Dates/Places/Occupation.
Who was Thomas married to, where & when?
Does the spelling of his name change on any docs, if so, which docs/where & when?
Can you give the names/dates/places born of children in order as he may have used the Scottish naming pattern?
Other info. on kids could attract interest to help too?
When & where did Thomas die?
Annie
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Is there a real difference between the 2 spellings? Thank you!
No.
Spelling is almost never significant before the late 19th century, though there are one or two families whose unusual spelling of their surname has persisted for longer than that.
According to G F Black's The Surnames of Scotland, both are variants of MacIan/MacIain. Other variants include MacKeand, MacKane, MacCane, MacKeane. MacKain, Makzane, Makaynd etc.
He also says, "When the MacIains (MacDonalds) of Ardnamurchan were driven out of their native territory in the first half of the 17th century some settled on the east coast, and several became merchant burgesses of Elgin. The name (in its newer home) was variously spelled Mackean and Mackeand (Clan Donald, III, P 553-554) .... Spellings in the Elgin records are McKain, Makzane and Makean. McKen 1760."
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Thank you. My line seems to stop with Thomas McKen (born 1766, son of David). I was hoping maybe the name variants would lead to the next leaf on the tree.
When did he die?
How did you confirm his father's name?
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Once again, thank you all for the advice. I'm a newbie and appreciate the guidance.
According to Scottish Births and Baptisms Thomas McKen is born 17 Aug. 1766. Death date unknown. Son of David McKen and Margret Laing. (no other info for David & Margret)
David and Margret's children: Thomas (Larbert, 1766), David (Dunipace, 1770), John (Dunipace, 1773), & Elizabeth Caroline (Dunipace, 1775).
Thomas marries Mary Brown (date UK). Children: David (1795), Carrie John (1797), Thomas (1802), Adam (1804), & George (1807).
David marries Janet Rankin (1815, Stirling, Scotland). Children: Thomas (1816, Denny), Agnes (1818, Denny), David (1824), John (1826), Janet (1830), Duncan (1833, Renfrew), & James (1835, Denny).
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If your Thomas died prior to 1855 there is no guarantee that he was baptised 1766.
You need documentary evidence that verifies you have the correct Thomas
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From my Reply #5
"Who was Thomas married to, where & when?
Does the spelling of his name change on any docs, if so, which docs/where & when?
Can you give the names/dates/places born of children in order as he may have used the Scottish naming pattern?"
The children of Thomas please as you have given the children of David.
Annie
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Thomas' baptism is recorded in FamilySearch as Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
Indexing Project (Batch) Number C11485-2
System Origin Scotland-VR
GS Film number 1041953
Reference ID 2:17VP3BN
I then ordered the films from LDS library and photographed the record.
The name stays McKen with David & Margret Laing, then their son Thomas (1766) & Mary Brown, then their son David (1795) and Janet Rankin, married 1815, Stirling. It changes with David's son, James Rankin McKean (b. 1839, Denny) marries Janet Hill (1864, Glasgow).
I listed the children of the 3 generations: David & Margret, Thomas & Mary, and David and Janet in #8.
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Do you have a death record for David (married to Janet Rankin) after 1855 that confirms his parents as Thomas McKen and Mary Brown?
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Yes, got that one. Died 9 May 1871, Simpson's Asylum, St Ninian's, Stirling.
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What documentary evidence do you have that verifies the names of Thomas McKen's parents?
The baptism record for the correct Thomas may not have been recorded or survived
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In # 11 I said that the familysearch.org led me to LDS films that went from David back to Thomas, and then Thomas back to David. I took photos of those entries before I had to return the films.
By the way, I'm David Duncan, same as my father. My grandfather was Duncan Rankin who was James's son. Duncan Rankin's sons were James, Thomas, Joseph, & David.
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In # 11 I said that the familysearch.org led me to LDS films that went from David back to Thomas, and then Thomas back to David. I took photos of those entries before I had to return the films.
What Sancti is trying to ask is whether you have independent evidence other than the baptisms on the films you borrowed from the LDS?
The LDS filmed the surviving parish registers of the Church of Scotland. These registers, however, are incomplete, and the further back you go, the more people are missing from them. So you cannot safely assume that a (or indeed the only) likely-looking candidate is the right one.
It is likely that the line of descent you have identified is correct, but you need to be aware that it may not be. You can be confident that your David who died in 1871 is right because the death certificate proves that the husband of Janet Rankin was the son of Thomas McKen and Mary Brown. So their marriage also is confirmed.
What is not confirmed is that the Thomas baptised in 1766 is the one who married Mary Brown. He probably is, not least because he named his eldest son David, but you need to bear in mind that it is possible that there was another Thomas of similar age but possibly a different spelling whose baptism record has not survived.
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That is good to know. I probably am assuming too much just based on available records. Are there other sources that could confirm the line I'm not using? Again, many thanks to all.
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Unfortunately it looks like the marriage records for McKen/Laing and McKen/Brown have not survived so it may be the end of the line for this branch of your family tree.
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but you need to bear in mind that it is possible that there was another Thomas of similar age but possibly a different spelling whose baptism record has not survived.
but that person may have a surviving marriage or death record, may appear in court or land records, census or militia records etc etc.
Its a case of research each and every one of them to eliminate them from the process.
I found a grandfather through a 1782 court record where it named his father, I had his marriage, death, various other court records, militia, books and a magazine article from 1822 but no positive birth until the 1782 court record (which had been mis-filed)