RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Surrey => England => Surrey Lookup Requests => Topic started by: SarahEliza on Saturday 21 January 17 11:46 GMT (UK)
-
Hello,
I'm trying to confirm a date of death for Susannah Wright, who was born in 1850 in Cobham, Surrey. Her parents were Abraham and Susannah Wright.
Abraham Wright was a millwright and wheelwright. As a point of interest, he was involved with Cobham Mill. In 1861, Susannah was living in Cobham with her parents and siblings. In 1871, she was working as a cook in Forest Gate, West Ham. In 1881, Susannah was living in Thames Ditton, Surrey, with her two children. She wasn't married. In 1891, she was living in Croydon, Surrey. Susannah had five children (born between 1875 and 1885), who all took her surname, as she didn't marry, which was obviously quite unconventional at the time.
Some of the info on census and other records, in relation to Susannah, is sometimes inaccurate for various reasons, so I just need to confirm a correct date of death, please.
Many Thanks.
-
Could you please give details of 1891 census including reference
-
Thank you for your reply.
On the 1891 census, Susannah's birth year is given as 1846, which isn't her correct year of birth. She is living with her four youngest children; William, Kate, Lucy and Roland.
In terms of the reference; I can tell you that the Registration Number for the record is RG12. The Piece/Folio number is 593/ 33.
-
Thank you for the 1891 details - Ancestry have the children with surname Blackley ::)
Have you located all of the children in 1901
I know she would have been getting on in years but have you eliminated this marriage
Marriages Jun 1901
COLLINS Minnie Harriet
Smith Albert John
Walters Henry
Wright Susannah
Croydon 2a 621
-
Try looking for Susanna Walters in 1911 ;D
Deaths Mar qtr 1936
Walters Susannah age 79
Croydon 2a 887
-
Hi Rosie99,
Thank you for your time. Yes, it's possible that she may have married in the end. I know that the father of the five children died suddenly in 1900, so Susannah could have married someone else in 1901.
I've never heard the surname Blackley. By 1901, Susannah's eldest son Otto was married and a father himself. I think that I have located Susannah's other children. Lucy was a maid and Roland a cabin boy, I think. It's possible that the Blackley's could be another set of children. I'm not sure.
Thank you very much again for all your help.
Sarah.
-
Susanna and her children were lodging with the Blackley family in 1891, Ancestry have transcribed it wrongly their surname should be Wright.
From familysearch
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW82-5GR
-
On the actual census the Blackleys live at 30 Warren Road Croydon, Susannah at 31 she is listed as surname Wright a charwoman mother widow with the four children beneath also Wright
-
Not sure if you have this......
Susannah Wright born 6 Jan 1854
Baptism 26 Feb 1854 St Andrew Cobham
Father: Abraham Wright occ millwright
Mother: Susannah
-
Thank you Rosie99, Jolee and Ladyhawk.
I have the information that you all latterly highlighted and that's definitely Susannah.
Thank you.
-
Yes, it's possible that she may have married in the end.
I know that the father of the five children died suddenly in 1900, so Susannah could have married someone else in 1901.
Are you happy that the marriage to Henry Walters is your Susannah :-\
Who was the father of the children who died in 1901 (Just curious :) )
Rosie
-
Well when Lucy marries she claims her father is Abel Wright, deceased, valet
-
Well when Lucy marries she claims her father is Abel Wright, deceased, valet
I can see an Abel Wright who died in Kingston Surrey in 1901 but he was married and a Carpenter ;D
-
Give both Kate and Lucy have the middle name Gilmore, that may be suggestive of something
-
Hi,
Yes, the marriage to Henry Walters seems credible, all things considered.
As far as I know at the moment, the children all had the same father. He wasn't a married man during the time of the relationship, as one might have expected. I know that he was born abroad in Europe in 1841, but lived in Merton, Surrey, when Susannah met him. He was a wealthy, middle class, professional man who had been bought up with servants etc. and who employed servants when he was living as a single adult in Surrey, so he was from a different social sphere. I don't think that his parents / family would probably have approved of a marriage to a working class woman who would have been seen as a member of the 'servant class', so Susannah and the children were a sort of secret, albeit a fairly open secret in some ways. This seems to be the explanation. His name wasn't Abel Wright, but I have also seen another document which refers to one of Susannah's sons, in which the father is named as having the surname Wright and Susannah is referred to as married with her maiden name given as Smith. All this is 'smoke and mirrors' I think, to make things seem socially acceptable.
Thanks again.
-
There is a Susannah Wright whose death is registered December quarter 1939 Surrey N E ref 2a page 118. Her age is 85 born 1854.
Might be worth a look. It could be checked on the 1939 registration
1881 census she is living with Edward Duke and his wife Sarah A (nee Wright) in Thames Ditton Surrey with son Otto H age 6 and William age 8 months.
-
When Otto Herlick Wright marries 1899 he says his father is Otto Herlick Wright.
Added his birth was registered Kingston Surrey 1874
-
At a wild guess - 1881, 1 Dorset Rd, Merton
Otto Herrlich 40 - commission merchant, b Prussia
Franz Heyer 43
Mary A. Sheppard 35
he appears to have a wife in 1891 and a 1 yr old
Disappears from electoral registers c1897, but no death obvious. His wife is a widow in 1901
-
Probate states Otto Johannes Herrlich died 3 Sept 1900 in Johannesburg, South Africa
-
He died 1900 Johannesburg South Africa, probate to wife/widow Emilie 306 pounds.
-
Thank you Amondg. I'll look into the death of the Susannah Wright who died in Surrey in 1939. Yes, that's definitely worth a look. I didn't know about that.
I knew about the connection to the Duke family i.e. Susannah's sister Sarah and her husband Edward Duke. I knew that Susannah and the children lived with them in Thames Ditton for a while. Thank you for looking into it and confirming this.
I didn't mention a name before, but Mabel's wild guess is correct. I knew that a few years after Susannah's last child Roland was born, O. J. H. did eventually marry (in the late 1880s) a woman called Emilie with a similar social background to himself and they had one child (a daughter born in 1890). However, he died in Johannesburg, whilst on some sort of business trip in 1900. I only found out when and where he died very recently myself. I researched his family in Germany i.e. his parents Carl August Herrlich and Bertha Weber, a while ago. I would like to find out what happened to Susannah, but I'm hoping that it is good outcome, rather than being cast out into poverty or struggle for years.
Many Thanks,
Sarah.
-
The Susanna Wright who died in Surrey in 1939 is possibly Susanna Sandys the wife of Samuel George Wright.
The free search on 1939 register for a Susanna/h Wright in that area shows a Susannah bn 1852 in Esher UD also living with Susannah -Louisa E Wright bn c1875 & Alice W Wright c1896
These births would tie in
WRIGHT, LOUISA EMMA mmn SANDYS
1875 June Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 181
WRIGHT, ALICE WINIFRED mmn SANDYS
1896 June Quarter in EDMONTON Volume 03A Page 342
-
The free search on 1939 register for a Susanna/h Wright in that area shows a Susannah bn 1852 in Esher UD also living with Susannah -Louisa E Wright bn c1875 & Alice W Wright c1896
I tried free search 1939 using dob given from Susannah WRIGHT’s baptism 06 01 1854
there was no Susannah WRIGHT
the only other two persons showing with that dob were
Susannah Ainge 1854 – Warwickshire
Mary Betteridge also on this record
Susan Guthrie 1854 – Wandsworth
I know she would have been getting on in years but have you eliminated this marriage
Marriages Jun 1901
COLLINS Minnie Harriet
Smith Albert John
Walters Henry
Wright Susannah
Croydon 2a 621
Try looking for Susanna Walters in 1911 ;D
Deaths Mar qtr 1936
Walters Susannah age 79
Croydon 2a 887
1911c shows Susannah Walters pob Cobham Surrey
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW82-5GR
I think although the yob is not exact Rosie's find looks promising
Mabel mentions the girls middle name Gilmore have you found a connection with that surname?
Kate Gilmore WRIGHT born 24th July 1882 bpt 11th April 1883 St Mark Surbiton
mother Susannah WRIGHT, Abode The Cottage Weston Green Thames Villa
-
Thanks everyone for your help with all this. It seems that the Susannah Wright who died in Surrey in 1939 can be ruled out then.
It's possible that the 1854 date of birth isn't exact anyway. It's more like 1850, because that would fit around births of other siblings. Thanks Rosie. Your suggestion that she married in 1901 seems plausible. I didn't know what I expected to find or still may find out about what happened to Susannah, due to her unusual circumstances in the years prior to 1891. Hopefully, if she married, this was a good outcome.
Many Thanks,
Sarah.
-
The date of birth isn't exact. It's more like 1850, because that would fit around births of other siblings.
??? Is the date of birth 6th Jan on Susannah’s 1854 baptism at Cobham incorrect then?
Were her parents Abraham & Susannah?
This looks to be her birth on GRO Indexes mmn MURRY
Susannah WRIGHT 1854 M Quarter in EPSOM Volume 02A Page 13
Cobham registration is in the district of Epsom
1861c https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2MG-R7N4
-
Yes, this is her. They were her parents and her mother's maiden name was Murray. However, I was led to believe that Susannah was born closer to 1850 than 1854 when she was baptised and that she was very close in age to her brother William, whom she named her son after. This could be wrong of course. There is a lot of misinformation and there are a lot of rumours surrounding all this. There is quite a bit of misinformation on census records in relation to Susannah and her family and there is some incorrect information entered on the five children's birth and marriage certificates.
I doubt whether I'll get to the bottom of this, so I'll probably leave it alone for a while, though it now appears that Susannah married Henry Walters in 1901.
Many Thanks.
-
Yes, this is her. They were her parents and her mother's maiden name was Murray.
I was led to believe that Susannah was born closer to 1850 than 1854, when she was baptised and that she was very close in age to her brother William, whom she named her son after. I could be wrong.
There are so many misleading facts and rumours.
In the 1871 census for example, her birthplace is given as Essex, which is wrong.
There is incorrect information on some of her family's birth certificates. I definitely know this.
I doubt whether I'll get to the bottom of this, so I'll probably leave it alone for a while.
Many Thanks.
I was looking at this 1871 census (as she's Susan Wright on 1861 census with parents)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRN7-LJM
Susan Wright pob is Cobham age 20 born c1851 :-\
Please come back and let us know if you solve the mystery :)
-
Thanks to everyone who have helped.
-
I am so happy to find this thread! I am a direct blood relative of Susannah Wright through her eldest son with Otto Johannes Herrlich. I always wondered what happened to Susannah. I know from the last census records I have for her , she is living with her sister Sarah and her brother in law ( the Duke family) I know that Otto eventually married a German woman called Emilie and had a daughter called Olga, but I have no record of Susannah after this census. Does anyone know anything more about her life? I’ve always been intrigued by this great great great grandmother of mine who has an affair with a German man above her social station at the time and has a child out of wedlock with him. I’d love to know more! I do have some photos of her male decendets- her grandson and great grandson, who are my grandad and greatgrandad if anyone is interested in seeing them x
-
Hi Michelle,
I started this thread. Welcome to RootsChat. I'm fairly new to it myself. I'll send you a PM from here, if possible.
-
Hi Sarah! I’m so happy to have made a connection with you! We’ll have to work out our family relationship but we are definitely sharing the same genes!
I’d love to show you the information I have found as well as family rumours that have been passed down! My email address is: Removed by Moderator
or you can find me on Facebook ‘Michelle Imms’ - I live in Preston, Lancashire but was born in Herne Hill. I’m excited to hear from you!
Michelle x
Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
-
Hi Sarah!
I’m so happy to have made a connection with you! We’ll have to work out our family relationship but we are definitely sharing the same genes!
I’d love to show you the information I have found as well as family rumours that have been passed down!
Hi Michelle - your email address may be removed before SarahEliza reads your post
from the guidelines for posting on Rootschat
"Please do not include personal contact details in postings.
This includes e-mail addesses, postal addresses, telephone numbers, etc.
The moderators will delete personal data.
Please use the Personal Messages (PM) system for exchanging personal data"
Make 3 posts and then you are able to use the PM (personal message) system - here's the link on how to use it http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
:)
-
Hi there!
I am grateful to find this thread.
Lucy Gilmore Wright (Susannah Wright’s daughter) is my great-great grandma (married William John Mitchell in Croyden, came to Canada in 1911 or so, passed away in Canada). I have had very little success searching her on Ancestry so this has been amazing to stumble upon.
I am curious about the “gilmore” middle name and about who her parents are.
-
Hi KJMStudio
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
SarahEliza who started this topic should receive an email notification that you have posted and hopefully come back soon.
Dawn
-
Hi there!
I am grateful to find this thread.
Lucy Gilmore Wright (Susannah Wright’s daughter) is my great-great grandma (married William John Mitchell in Croyden, came to Canada in 1911 or so, passed away in Canada).
I have had very little success searching her on Ancestry so this has been amazing to stumble upon.
I am curious about the “gilmore” middle name and about who her parents are.
Hello and welcome to Rootschat :)
Do you have her 1967 death certificate?
1967 Lucy’s death gives parents as Abel WRIGHT & Susan GILMORE,
spouse William John MITCHELL
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FLY9-DMT (no image)
1911 census Lucy MITCHELL her husband William and children are living in Croydon
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW8V-9M7
Not sure if these were posted possible entry for Lucy's birth entry from GRO indexes and that of her sister Kate Gilmore Wright both mother's name have been left blank which would indicate illegitimate, Kate's baptism details on the thread show NO father named only mother Susannah WRIGHT
Just speculation perhaps Gilmore might be the surname of the father :-\
WRIGHT, LUCY -
GRO Reference: 1884 M Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 357
WRIGHT, KATE GILMORE -
GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 352
I don't know whether SarahEliza has either birth certificate of the girls to confirm the details or if she obtained the marriage entry posted by Rosie99 to check if she's the correct Susannah
Jun 1901
Walters Henry
Wright Susannah
Croydon 2a 621
Hopefully when she receive these notifications she will be in touch and may be able to help you further.
EDIT to add these appear to be sons William & Roland's birth entry - also no mother's maiden name
WRIGHT, WILLIAM -
GRO Reference: 1880 S Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 308
WRIGHT, ROWLAND -
GRO Reference: 1885 J Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 330
Here's the link to GRO https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp it's free to search
but you have to register to do so
-
Hi KJMStudio,
Thank you for your message. Sorry for the delay in my response. I've just noticed it, because the email notification went to my junk mail. My great grandfather Otto Wright was the brother of Lucy Gilmore Wright. Their mother Susannah Wright had five children (Otto, William, Kate, Lucy and Roland). They all took their mother's surname (which was her maiden name), as she wasn't married when she had the children. My mum has always known that her grandfather Otto's parents were never married, but we didn't know much else (apart from some very basic details about Otto's father's background). Susannah is quite a mysterious figure and research has been quite challenging. On one of the census records, Susannah describes herself as the children's sister. On my great grandfather's birth certificate, Susannah gave the father's surname as Wright, but that isn't the case. She gives her maiden name as Smith and her married name as Wright on his birth certificate. Otto's father was a man called Otto Johannes Herrlich. However, I suspect that he was not Lucy's father due to the 'Gilmore' name, but he very well could be. To be honest, I suspect that the name 'Abel Wright' is probably a red herring either way. The census records suggest that Susannah lived very near to her sister and brother-in-law (the Dukes) for a while, who probably helped her with the children and I remember finding out that there was a Gilmore family living near to her at some point. Susannah moved around alot (according to the census records), but usually within the Surrey area. I'll have a look at the information I have over the next few days and I'll get back to you. I also have some photos of Otto as a young man. I'll try and send a private message via RootChat. It has been a while since I've used it.
Thanks again for your message,
Sarah
x
-
Hi there!
I am grateful to find this thread.
Lucy Gilmore Wright (Susannah Wright’s daughter) is my great-great grandma (married William John Mitchell in Croyden, came to Canada in 1911 or so, passed away in Canada).
I have had very little success searching her on Ancestry so this has been amazing to stumble upon.
I am curious about the “gilmore” middle name and about who her parents are.
Hello and welcome to Rootschat :)
Do you have her 1967 death certificate?
1967 Lucy’s death gives parents as Abel WRIGHT & Susan GILMORE,
spouse William John MITCHELL
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FLY9-DMT (no image)
1911 census Lucy MITCHELL her husband William and children are living in Croydon
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW8V-9M7
Not sure if these were posted possible entry for Lucy's birth entry from GRO indexes and that of her sister Kate Gilmore Wright both mother's name have been left blank which would indicate illegitimate, Kate's baptism details on the thread show NO father named only mother Susannah WRIGHT
Just speculation perhaps Gilmore might be the surname of the father :-\
WRIGHT, LUCY -
GRO Reference: 1884 M Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 357
WRIGHT, KATE GILMORE -
GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 352
I don't know whether SarahEliza has either birth certificate of the girls to confirm the details or if she obtained the marriage entry posted by Rosie99 to check if she's the correct Susannah
Jun 1901
Walters Henry
Wright Susannah
Croydon 2a 621
Hopefully when she receive these notifications she will be in touch and may be able to help you further.
EDIT to add these appear to be sons William & Roland's birth entry - also no mother's maiden name
WRIGHT, WILLIAM -
GRO Reference: 1880 S Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 308
WRIGHT, ROWLAND -
GRO Reference: 1885 J Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 330
Here's the link to GRO https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp it's free to search
but you have to register to do so
Interestingly Lucy's brother lists Abel Gilmore Wright (valet, deceased) on his marriage certificate!
https://www.ancestry.ca/sharing/26349295?h=e4ae71&utm_campaign=bandido-webparts&utm_source=post-share-modal&utm_medium=copy-url
London Metropolitan Archives; London, England; London Church of England Parish Registers; Reference Number: DRO/150/010