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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: mclaughlan on Wednesday 18 January 17 20:23 GMT (UK)

Title: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: mclaughlan on Wednesday 18 January 17 20:23 GMT (UK)
I am searching for a birth of My Grandmother she was born around 1899, 17th March.  Her parents were John Cairns and Margaret Hynes.  Has anybody any ideas where in Ireland I could start my search? 
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 18 January 17 20:35 GMT (UK)
I would first try the Irish Civil Records?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: mclaughlan on Wednesday 18 January 17 20:46 GMT (UK)
Many thanks.   :D
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 19 January 17 00:32 GMT (UK)
Is this the same person as in a previous post of yours?
Has anybody a Maggie Cairns born 1900 she has a brother William born 1898.  Her parents names were John and Maggie Cairns born around 1870.  The family lived at 12 Burn Street, Dunbartonshire in 1901.  Please contact me if any of this information matches with your Ancestors.

If so, why do you think she was born in Ireland? have you found her in 1901 and 1911? (and if so is 'Ireland' listed as her birthplace?)

Another thread here-
I am searching for the birth of May Cairns, born around 1900.  Her parents names were John and Margaret Cairns  The mothers maiden surname is not clear on the certificate it looks like Hynes?  I have a copy of May's marriage certificate from 1921. The marriage took place in Port Glasgow, May lived in Greenock, Scotland.  May married an Alexander McLaughlan.  I have not also been able to trace a marriage for John and Margaret.  I have tried to upload a copy to attach to this message the image is too big.  If anybody knows of any information I would appeciate it.   :)
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: mclaughlan on Thursday 19 January 17 19:33 GMT (UK)
Yes it is.  Still having no joy.  I had a few leads which turned up dead ends so far.  I am now attempting to search in Ireland as no luck in Scotland.
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 19 January 17 20:08 GMT (UK)
Yes it is.  Still having no joy.  I had a few leads which turned up dead ends so far.  I am now attempting to search in Ireland as no luck in Scotland.

Yes it is what? same person as other threads? Ireland is listed as her birthplace?

Do you have her anywhere in 1901 and 1911? if so, what are her details in them?

Due to possible spelling/name variations we need all the details you have to start helping you.
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: mclaughlan on Thursday 19 January 17 20:27 GMT (UK)
The information I have is from May Cairns's marriage certificate she married in 1921 Port Glasgow to Alexander McLaughlan.  Her parents names were John Cairns and Margaret nee Hynes.  Both parents allegedley deceased.  May lived in Chalmers Street Greenock.  May worked as a Mill worker. I have found no records of birth, marriage or death certificates for John or Margaret in Scotland.  A few other people have tried to help me in Scotland in my search to no avail.  May and Alexander moved to Birkenhead, Merseyside around 1927.  There are no further details I have for May. 
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 19 January 17 20:28 GMT (UK)
So you haven't found her in any census records?
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: mclaughlan on Thursday 19 January 17 20:31 GMT (UK)
No I was able to confirm her birth date which is  17th March 1899 from the 1939 register in Birkenhead. 
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 19 January 17 20:39 GMT (UK)
Any occupation listed for her father? Any idea what religion she was?

Have you eliminated John Cairns (44, born Ireland) & wife Margaret (age 42, born Dalry, Ayrshire) with daughter Mary (age 12, born Glasgow) living in Glasgow in 1901? I know this Mary is born 10 years before 1899 but sometimes birth years aren't accurate- especially if husband is younger.

May could be a nickname for Margaret, Mary, Maud, etc. and spelling of surname could vary.
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 19 January 17 20:44 GMT (UK)
What names do you have for witnesses on the marriage certificate.

If it is a church service, what denomination.

Where are you seeing birthplace Ireland.
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: mclaughlan on Thursday 19 January 17 21:02 GMT (UK)
John Cairns profession was a labourer.  I have found a few near matches and purchased certificates from Scotlands People with no results.  Unfortunately I have no names of any siblings.
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: mclaughlan on Thursday 19 January 17 21:17 GMT (UK)
Witness's were Alexander's siblings.  They married in Ladyburn Manse Greenock.  I am assuming Ireland as I have no trace in Scotland or England.   My mum was a child when her mother died and she said she had an accent which was assumed to be Scottish/Irish.
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: Nailer1 on Thursday 19 January 17 23:02 GMT (UK)
If John was Irish,  a strong alternative spelling of his name would be Kearns or Kerins.  Put a Scottish accent to that and it could easily sound and be written down as Cairns.
Just a thought. !!
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: mclaughlan on Friday 20 January 17 06:45 GMT (UK)
Thank you.
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: familyroutes on Friday 20 January 17 17:31 GMT (UK)
There is a record of a John Cairnes   DOB   14-Mar-1905 with an address in Kyle's Brae Killowen Coleraine.
Father:   John Cairnes   Mother:   Maggie Hinds
Occupation:   Labourer      
Can't find Margaret or William
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 20 January 17 20:33 GMT (UK)
Fantastic find, Mary  ;D

Had a look at the Valuation Revision book covering Kyle's Brae 1900-1912 (after not finding the family in 1901 or 1911 census records in the area) but no trace of them which just means that John Cairns wasn't head of a household there.

Though I might have found Maggie under a different surname (birthdate 16/3 in school register) but when I looked up the birth certificate date listed as 1 April  :-\

Back to the drawing board...
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: familyroutes on Friday 20 January 17 23:55 GMT (UK)
There is a record of a Margaret Hinds  DOB 23-Oct-1868 in Craigtown More, Portrush
 Denomination: Presbyterian
Father:Thomas Hinds,railway labourer   Mother:   Anne Galt
      
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 21 January 17 00:37 GMT (UK)
There is a record of a Margaret Hinds  DOB 23-Oct-1868 in Craigtown More, Portrush
 Denomination: Presbyterian
Father:Thomas Hinds,railway labourer   Mother:   Anne Galt

Except that Margaret is supposed to have been born in Scotland, not Ireland?
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 21 January 17 09:31 GMT (UK)
I think that we have absolutely no idea where Margaret Hinds was born since the family have not been identified in any census records yet.

The best lead so far seems to the the 1905 birth for a John Cairnes in Coleraine, Co. Derry, Ireland that familyroutes found.

I can't find the family in 1901/1911 census in the area yet, nothing showing up under Kyle's Brae in the valuation revision books for the period.

In view of the location of the 1905 birth I keep coming back to a one local family but I want to check one or two more details before posting the names and information that I already had on them.
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 21 January 17 09:55 GMT (UK)
Marriage of Mary Ann Hindes (1897) lists her father as John Hinds, labourer, and her residence as Cullyvenny (Macosquin Parish) just outside Coleraine. The witnesses were local men and probably not related to either bride or groom.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10469/5812407.pdf

Mary Ann died after giving birth to twins in 1902 and had a daughter Margaret Ann (born 16 Mar.1900 according to school register but birth certificate 1 Apr.1899) but she married in 1931 and stayed in Ireland.

Now, to Thomas Hinds & Ann Gault (birth certificate of their daughter Margaret posted earlier)-

son born 1864
   https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03630/2340072.pdf
Mary born 1866
   https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03533/2300276.pdf
Eliza Jane born 1870 Scotland
   https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ89-J5D
Thomasina born 1872 in Scotland-
   https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQHG-7LX

Wonder if that Margaret Hinds didn't marry and go to U.S.-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KFWV-2W8
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: mclaughlan on Saturday 21 January 17 10:42 GMT (UK)
The details seemed really promising with Margaret Ann born 16 Mar 1900   Such a shame about the further details not matching.  It is a mystery how I have never found any records of her living in Scotand except for details on her marriage certificate.    Many Thanks though. 
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: mclaughlan on Saturday 21 January 17 10:46 GMT (UK)
Does anybody know if records were held travelling from Ireland to Scotland between 1899 - 1921 if so could anybody recommend any sites i could search maybe May Cairns might show up travelling on one of the ships.  Many thanks.
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 21 January 17 11:02 GMT (UK)
Ireland was part of U.K. so no records kept of people traveling from Ireland to England, Scotland or Wales.
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: mclaughlan on Saturday 21 January 17 11:07 GMT (UK)
Thank you for letting me know.
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 21 January 17 11:14 GMT (UK)

If May McLAUGHLAN nee CAIRNS died leaving young children, who looked after them?.

Did Alexander McLAUGHLAN marry again?

CAIRNS relatives might have been around to assist?
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: mclaughlan on Saturday 21 January 17 11:59 GMT (UK)
May had 6 children  Lilly born 1921, Mary 1923, William 1924 all born in Port Glasgow Scotland.  Lilly for some reason unknown to the family lived in Scotland around 1927 May and Alexander moved to Birkenhead, Merseyside.  My mum Ruth born 1936, Patricia 1938 and Eileen 1940.  So in all 6 children with a 12 year gap.   ALexander died 1944 and May died 1950.  Alexander and May lived in Birkenhead until their respective deaths.  When May and Alexander died William took over the roll of the man of the house.  All records of any life events disappeared.  My mum never remembered any family interaction with any other relatives. 
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 21 January 17 12:57 GMT (UK)
Did a bit more checking on family of Thomas Hinds & Ann Galt mentioned earlier and my head is spinning! These details are not complete.

Thomas' parents were Adam Hinds (born Portglenone, died Portrush according to an online tree) & Nancy McNeil (born & died Belfast according to same tree).

1871 census- Cadder, Lanarkshire: Thomas Hynds (29, Ireland), wife Ann (31, Ireland) & children Maryanne (5), Margaret (2), Eliza Jane (7 Months). All fits with the births I found. However an Archibald Hynds (20, Ireland) also in household- more about him shortly.

1881 census- Moodiesburn, Cadder: John Carcairn (50), wife Ann Carcairn (38) stepdaughter Thomasina Hynds (8 ), stepson Henry Hynds (6), dau. Helen Carcairn (4), son John Carcairn (2).

1891 census- New Monkland: John Fox (45), wife Ann Fox (42), Henry Routledge (16), John Corcoran (12), Thomasina Hynds (18), Ellen Corcoran (14), Rachel Hynds (3), Mary Hynds (1).

1881 census- Archibald Hynds (31), Jane (26), Agnes (2).
1891 census- Archd Hynds (38), Agnes (12), Archd (10), Faney (8 ), Jane (6).
1901 census- Cadder: Archibald (47), Archibald (19), Jane (15), Robert (11).

John Alexander Hinds, son of Adam, married 1894-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1894/10568/5849964.pdf

Adam Hinds of Bushmills died 1893 Colerawine Workhouse-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/05988/4703428.pdf
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: familyroutes on Saturday 21 January 17 13:26 GMT (UK)

Wonder if that Margaret Hinds didn't marry and go to U.S.-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KFWV-2W8

Definitely looks like Margaret remarried even though May listed her as deceased on her marriage cert.
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 21 January 17 16:28 GMT (UK)
We don't know that Thomas Hinds & Ann Galt are the parents of Margaret (Hinds) Cairns . At the moment all we are sure about is the parents to the child born Coleraine 1905 are the same names as those listed on Margaret's Scottish marriage certificate.
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: familyroutes on Saturday 21 January 17 16:31 GMT (UK)
True!
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: heywood on Saturday 21 January 17 16:39 GMT (UK)
Are you looking for Margaret or May?

I think it has been written that some names are interchangeable but usually it is Margaret/Maggie or Mary/ May.

You say that Lilly stayed in Scotland. Do you have any other information? Who she stayed with; her marriage?
Any clues there?
Title: Re: Cairns birth 1899.
Post by: mclaughlan on Saturday 21 January 17 17:04 GMT (UK)
I was told her name was May but I suppose her birth name could of  been Margaret or Mary.  Her mother was called Margaret.   Lilly was adopted by my Grandfathers sister.  Lilly married in Scotland.  I found details about her birth and traced her from the Salvation Army as details of her as a child were here say.