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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: tomhawking on Tuesday 17 January 17 21:07 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I have been doing my research on and off for a few years, but have recently got back into it. I am, however, stuck on one of my primary research lines with a gentleman called William Hutchings Hawking. I've amassed the below records and am stuck connecting him with what I believe is his baptism in St Dominick, Cornwall. There are no census records I've found where I can get another recording of his birthplace either. The rarity of the name makes it likely that he's the same Hutching(s) born in Cornwall; indeed, his mother and father's (Elizabeth and Samuel) marriage shows his mother's maiden name as "Hitchins", and the change in spelling seems plausible. I also kind find his death, so can't get a birth certificate to check any other details. The other anomaly is the change in the occupation at certain points.
If anyone has any suggestions or thoughts, I'd be really grateful and interested to hear from you!
Tom
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I also kind find his death, so can't get a birth certificate to check any other details.
Do you mean you can't find a death registration for him?
What is the probate diary 1868?
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Hi Milliepede,
Yes, I can't find him in the GRO (under Hawking/s and Hawkin/s), or in local parish records or other databases, such as the IGI.
Tom
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Date of death 7 Nov 1868 but no I can't find an entry either :-\
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How old should he be in 1868?
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70, if he was baptised in the same year of his death.
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Ah in that case then how about this one which is in the right district and right age
Dec 1868 Holborn
William Hawkins 70
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There's 2 entries for him on the opc baptism records for the parish
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jaz/
now to decide which one.
Good luck
M
Note: the variations in spelling used have you found these with any other of the family?
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Milliepede - thanks for the death entry; I might have to bite the bullet and order that!
Mair - well that's put a spanner in the works, but good to know! In answer to your question, there's an Elizabeth Hitchins Hawking, but the rest, bar the two Williams, bear no middle name: http://bit.ly/2iNNkx3 (http://bit.ly/2iNNkx3). I also kind find a burial in St Dominick for the first William, so perhaps he didn't die in childhood, which was my first thought. Also, the second William seems to have a fairly consistent spelling of the "Hutchings", with the "s" at the end being the only change, except for his baptism in the name of "Hutchins". On his second marriage entry, his father is listed as Samuel Hawking, which fits with the gentleman in St Dominick because Samuel's occupation is given as "Hosier", and he was a "Taylor" in his will, dying not long after William's birth (although William's marriage entry does not say that Samuel is deceased).
To corroborate things, as you can see in the table, I contacted the Charterhouse School, as he died at the Charterhouse and was a schoolmaster, so I thought he might have taught there. He didn't, but he was a "poor brother", so I have two more consistent entries of his name and something to corroborate the 1868 death. I have written off to the actual Charterhouse almshouse, still in London, to see if they have more detailed records than the school kept, as the school moved just after William's death.
I suppose I won't get any further without something from the Charterhouse or the death certificate now.
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When did his wife die?
No trace of him in 1851/1861 census?
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No trace of him in 1851/1861 census?
I spent time yesterday looking for him see reply #8 here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=763182.msg6147532#msg6147532, no success at all.
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When did his wife die?
According to several trees on Ancestry she died in Lambeth in October 1847 :-\
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Don't know if you have the marriage cert but his wife was Elizabeth Priscilla Caunter they married 03/10/1822 witness by Ro. H Hawkings and Esther Eliza (looks like) Harrison
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Sorry I meant the second wife Jane.
Presume this is the death registration for her.
Dec 1867 W.London
Jane Hawking 42
So William and Jane should both be somewhere in 1861 but ???
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The second marriage is another thing that makes me suspicious/exasperated/confused, because his residence in the Charterhouse was on the proviso that he was a widower, which he can't have been unless Jane died prior to him entering the Charterhouse in 1865.
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Have you got a copy of the marriage to Jane?
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There's a Jane married to a Richard Hawking who is 38 in 1861 Westminster so I suppose it's possible the 1867 death is hers.
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Have you got a copy of the marriage to Jane?
St John the Evangelist Westminster.
10 July 1856
William Hutching Hawking, 58, Widower, Collector, 3 St Johns Terrace. Father Samuel Hawking, Hosier
Jane Battershall, 32, Spinster, Milliner, 52 Marsham Street. Father James Battershall, Farmer.
Frustratingly, I can't find Jane in 1851 either ::)
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That's William's son and his wife - William and Jane's marriage entry here: http://imgur.com/a/VieTt (http://imgur.com/a/VieTt).
Thanks all for the continued help, by the way - I love this community already!
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That's William's son and his wife -
I'm losing the plot here. The marriage I gave in my reply was exactly the same one you have now linked to.
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Sorry Jen - I think our posts must have crossed over.
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Looking at marriage details we go for 1798 baptised in the year of birth
I don't have subs to anywhere but noticed that there are a couple of undeciphered surnames that are listed and could be possibles?
M
P'S subs are in hand!
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Thank you to all - the help has been phenomenal.
The Ancestry family trees, which I have never trusted without source citations, have given me a helpful tip - the first William Hawking was buried in St Dominick in 1790: http://bit.ly/2joi7Pv (http://bit.ly/2joi7Pv). I have also ordered the death certificate for the William Hawkins who died in Holborn in the right year with the right age, so helpfully that will shed some light.
The two issues I have left are the changes in William's occupation, from Schoolmaster to Collector and then back and forth once more, and the lack of corroborative census evidence for his place of birth.
Can anyone help with the following questions:
Are the changes in occupations very odd?
Is the lack of census data particularly strange or suspicious, or par for the course in London in this time period?
Can anyone suggest any records of teachers in this period? I know the SoG has some records, but I'm not quite ready to spend £50 on a subscription.
Thank you all so much.
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I'm mystified. I've searched until I am blue in the face for William in 1851 and William & Jane in 1861, but I really can't find anything.
Wherever they are, they are pretty well hidden >:(
(Now that I've said that I expect someone will come along and produce them like a rabbit out of a hat ::) )
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I just remembered that there are some missing pieces in the 1861 census, and some of them are in Middlesex.
It isn't beyond the bounds of possibility that William and Jane were living in one of the 'missing' areas.
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/census-for-england-wales-and-scotland-missing-pieces
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Just checking, the 1841 census you have I take it says "no" for not born in County?
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Hi Millie,
Yes, it does, for all the family - the census entry is in Lambeth, which, according to Phillimore's, was Surrey then, so anyone born across the river would have a "No" entry for this field anyway. The children were baptised in Middlesex, so this definitely fits, at least.
Jen - I have gone through William's and Jane's addresses on their 1856 marriage entry and cross-referenced these with the missing bits of the census. I don't think they lived then in any of the parishes with missing info, but they could have moved; plus, it's not inconceivable, I suppose, that other bits of the census for other areas are slightly missing, I suppose. I even checked the streets they had lived on in 1856 using the FindMyPast search (which allows street-by-street searching) and there's nobody with names that might be mistranscribed from Hawking to something else.
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Milliepede - I ordered the death certificate and you were right - the perennial problem of Hawking/Hawkins that I get almost every week was rearing its head even in 1868: http://imgur.com/a/97E6B (http://imgur.com/a/97E6B). Thanks all for your help.
Before I close this off, can anyone suggest another way to verify this person and the one born in Cornwall are one and the same, without the census records I can't find. I just need something, other than a census, that states his place of birth as St Dominick, or Cornwall at least?
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It's good news that you have at least verified his death thanks to Milliepede :)
At the moment I can't think of any way to verify his birthplace apart from the census, I'm afraid, and have drawn a complete blank on that despite, despite hours of searching :'(
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Thanks Jen - and thanks so much for searching! I'm still waiting to hear from the Charterhouse to see if there are any records, but other than that I might just have to go on the uniqueness of the name.
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I don't have subs to anywhere but noticed that there are a couple of undeciphered surnames that are listed and could be possibles?
M
If you can, if you have not already, looked at some of these - one surname was transcribed as " H " but in roughly the right location
But as JenB has said apart from the census you are going to have to rely on Lady Luck and gut instinct as you say.
I hope something turns up!
M
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I'm still waiting to hear from the Charterhouse to see if there are any records
Most records relating to Charterhouse pensioners in the 1800s are deposited at London Metropolitan Archives (ACC/1876/PS).
Summary here ...
http://www.aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/vcdf/detail?coll_id=15829&inst_id=118
Full details in the LMA catalogue here ...
http://search.lma.gov.uk/LMA_DOC/ACC_1876.PDF
(section starting p. 401)
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Glad it was the right death :)
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Has anyone had any luck with tracing the Richard H. Hawking who witnessed the marriage to Elizabeth Priscilla?
I see there's a Richard Hawking on the 1861 census. Living in Clerkenwell, but born c.1793 in St. Dominick, Cornwall. He's living with his niece Rebecca Fairweather age 20 from Framlingham, Suffolk.
Rebecca married George Williams in 1866
Unfortunately, this Richard Hawking didn't marry. So we can't compare signatures.
Richard died in 1866. His probate mentions niece Rebecca Fairweather and nephews Richard Henry Martin and Tobias Edwin Martin. I can't tie these families together though.
The Will was contested in 1875 by a Jane Eveline Williams - spinster.
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Tobias Edwin baptism has parents Susannah and William Martin and family tree has
Richard Hawking
Suzanna Hawking baptism 30 Nov 1794 St Dominick Cornwall
William Hutchins Hawking
as siblings.
So that would fit with Tobias being a nephew of Richard (and of William) if Susannah married a William Martin.
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Richard Hawking seems to acquire his family in an unconventional manner.
On 1861 census - (name written down as Hanking) he is with his two sons, William and John Wright from Saxmundham, Suffolk!! This can't be right. Plus Rebecca Fairweather as servant.
ADDED In 1861 Richard Hawking is a retired schoolmaster. So ties in with William with that
Another later edit - Above should read 1851
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Richard Hawking seems to acquire his family in an unconventional manner.
On 1861 census - (name written down as Hanking) he is with his two sons, William and John Wright from Saxmundham, Suffolk!! This can't be right. Plus Rebecca Fairweather as servant.
ADDED In 1861 Richard Hawking is a retired schoolmaster. So ties in with William with that
In 1861 Richard Hawking, born St Dominick in Cornwall is living in Clerkenwell, and is a 'Proprietor of Houses'.
RG 9 / 192 / 66 / 11
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Sorry That should read 1851
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I'm still waiting to hear from the Charterhouse to see if there are any records
Most records relating to Charterhouse pensioners in the 1800s are deposited at London Metropolitan Archives (ACC/1876/PS).
Summary here ...
http://www.aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/vcdf/detail?coll_id=15829&inst_id=118
Full details in the LMA catalogue here ...
http://search.lma.gov.uk/LMA_DOC/ACC_1876.PDF
(section starting p. 401)
In case it helps, the Charterhouse Pensioners' Admissions Register at LMA (ACC/1876/PS/01/013, p. 15) gives his date of birth as 2 February 1798, his date of admission to the Charterhouse as 23 November 1865 (sponsored by the Earl of Derby, in succession to J. Banister), his age on admission as 67, and his date of death as 7 November 1868, which you already have. No place of birth is given in the Register.
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Thanks again all - I have a lot to go through. Looks like I need to do a whole generation analysis for Richard and the other siblings.
Before that though - Bookbox: where did you find those records? I can only get the LMA catalogue online, and there's nothing in Ancestry or FindMyPast.
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where did you find those records? I can only get the LMA catalogue online, and there's nothing in Ancestry or FindMyPast.
The records are not online. I was working at LMA today.