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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: eileenwilson on Monday 16 January 17 19:12 GMT (UK)

Title: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: eileenwilson on Monday 16 January 17 19:12 GMT (UK)
The marriage of Henry McAfee (McPhee) and Eliza Neill took place on 28 September 1845 in Donaghcloney (registered in Lurgan).  The oldest child that I know about is an Alice McPhee, who says she was born in Co. Armagh about 1854, so I suspect there were a few born between 1846 and 1853 that are unaccounted for.  Does anybody have access to the parish records that could have a look? Given that the parish borders Armagh, it's not surprising that the marriage was registered in Lurgan, so they may have lived in a townland on or near the border as well.
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: hallmark on Monday 16 January 17 19:18 GMT (UK)
Which Parish?

C of I?
RC?
Presbyterian?
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: eileenwilson on Monday 16 January 17 19:21 GMT (UK)
Oops, sorry, Presbyterian.

Church Marriage Record
Date of Marriage: 29-Sep-1845
Parish / District: Donaghcloney County: Co. Down
Husband Wife
Name: Henry McAfee Elizabeth O'Neill
Address: Banagh Banagh
Denomination:
Occupation: WEAVER WEAVER
Age: 21 19
Status:
Husband's Father Wife's Father
Name: Patrick McAfee James O'Neill
Address:
Denomination:
Occupation: WEAVER WEAVER
Husband's Mother Wife's Mother
Name:
Address:
Denomination:
Occupation:
Witness 1 Witness 2
Name: Edward O'Neill Robert O'Neill
Address:
Notes:
Church: Donacloney Presbyterian
 Other possible spelling: ELIZABETH NEIL Minister/Priest: MOORHEAD
JAMES.
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: hallmark on Monday 16 January 17 19:27 GMT (UK)
Have you tried Civil Reg on irishgenealogy?
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: eileenwilson on Monday 16 January 17 19:29 GMT (UK)
Civil registration for births did not begin until 1864 and all of the kids were born by then (according to later census in Scotland), so I'd need to be looking at the parish records for the children.  I know of Alice (born 1854), Henry (born 1855), John (born 1856), Margaret (born 1858), James (born 1860), Annabelle (born 1863) and Walter (born 1864).
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: hallmark on Monday 16 January 17 19:48 GMT (UK)
 Birth results in Lurgan from 1845 to 1865

Displaying results 1 - 100 of 4355. ................!!
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: eileenwilson on Monday 16 January 17 19:53 GMT (UK)
From Irishgenealogy.ie:

The Indexes to the Civil Records of Irish Births, Deaths and Marriages date from 1864 with non-Roman Catholic Marriages recorded from 1845.

Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: hallmark on Monday 16 January 17 19:54 GMT (UK)
Birth results in Lurgan from 1845 to 1865

Displaying results 1 - 100 of 4355
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: eileenwilson on Monday 16 January 17 19:56 GMT (UK)
Then perhaps you can provide the link because the only results I get at irishgenealogy.ie for births are for those after 1864.
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: hallmark on Monday 16 January 17 19:57 GMT (UK)
Birth results in Lurgan from 1845 to 1865

Displaying results 1 - 100 of 4355
.
.
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: eileenwilson on Monday 16 January 17 19:59 GMT (UK)
And if you actually looked at the entries, you would see that they are all from 1864 and later. There are no civil birth records prior to 1864.  I am  not a neophyte at researching in Ireland.
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 16 January 17 20:05 GMT (UK)
And if you actually looked at the entries, you would see that they are all from 1864 and later. There are no civil birth records prior to 1864.  I am  not a neophyte at researching in Ireland.

Glad to see there's at least one sensible person posting on the thread so far  ;)

Presbyterian churches are organised into Presbyteries not parishes and since Presbyterians did always attend their nearest church and congregations frequently split, merged and re-formed it can be difficult to find families in existing records (not all of which are online).

Have you checked to see what Presbyterian churches might be in the area? this map for graveyards might give you a start, then you can check PRONI to see what records might be available.
http://www.historyfromheadstones.com/index.php?mapofulster&denomination=PR
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/proni-guide-church-records
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: eileenwilson on Monday 16 January 17 20:09 GMT (UK)
And if you actually looked at the entries, you would see that they are all from 1864 and later. There are no civil birth records prior to 1864.  I am  not a neophyte at researching in Ireland.

Glad to see there's at least one sensible person posting on the thread so far  ;)

Presbyterian churches are organised into Presbyteries not parishes and since Presbyterians did always attend their nearest church and congregations frequently split, merged and re-formed it can be difficult to find families in existing records (not all of which are online).

Have you checked to see what Presbyterian churches might be in the area? this map for graveyards might give you a start, then you can check PRONI to see what records might be available.
http://www.historyfromheadstones.com/index.php?mapofulster&denomination=PR
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/proni-guide-church-records

Thanks. I was beginning to wonder if I had indeed lost my mind!  Appreciate the info and I have checked into the Presbyterian Churches in the area.  The minister who performed the wedding, James Moorhead was at Waringstown from 1830 to 1880, so suspect that this congregation was likely relatively stable during the period of the time when the kids would be have been baptized.
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 16 January 17 20:15 GMT (UK)
Marriages usually take place in the bride's church which may, or may not, be the groom's church.

According to page 165 of PRONI's church guide the records of Donacloney Presbyterian Church show cover the dates you need so that would be worth checking.
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: eileenwilson on Monday 16 January 17 20:18 GMT (UK)
I did see that they have the records available; unfortunately, I don't have ready access as I'm in Canada so was hoping to find someone who might already be working in those records to see what they can find.
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 16 January 17 20:40 GMT (UK)
This might help you-

Baptismal Records for Donaghcloney (Donacloney)Presbyterian Church, Co Down, have now been added to the database.
These entries cover the period 1844 to 1864. Listed on the database is the Child's name, Father's name, Mother maiden name, residence, date of baptism.

The following are prevalent family surnames included in these records:-
Alexander, Adamson, Anderson, Andrews, Anthony, Beatty, Brown, Carson, Craig, Findlay, Frackleton, Gamble, Hoy, Huston, Johnston, Kerr, Lyons, Major, McCammon, McConnell, McMullen, Mercer, Peden, Rodgers, Thompson, Shields, Waugh & Wright.

https://www.emeraldancestors.com/news/Donaghcloney_Presbyterian,_Co_Down._Baptisms_1844_-_1864/23/

They do a 1 month subscription for under £10-
https://www.emeraldancestors.com/membership/
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: hallmark on Monday 16 January 17 20:43 GMT (UK)
And if you actually looked at the entries, you would see that they are all from 1864 and later. There are no civil birth records prior to 1864.  I am  not a neophyte at researching in Ireland.

Sorry... senior moment!!   :(
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: eileenwilson on Monday 16 January 17 20:45 GMT (UK)
Sorry... senior moment!!   :(
[/quote]

NP, I thought I was going crazy!

This might help you-

Baptismal Records for Donaghcloney (Donacloney)Presbyterian Church, Co Down, have now been added to the database.
These entries cover the period 1844 to 1864. Listed on the database is the Child's name, Father's name, Mother maiden name, residence, date of baptism.

The following are prevalent family surnames included in these records:-
Alexander, Adamson, Anderson, Andrews, Anthony, Beatty, Brown, Carson, Craig, Findlay, Frackleton, Gamble, Hoy, Huston, Johnston, Kerr, Lyons, Major, McCammon, McConnell, McMullen, Mercer, Peden, Rodgers, Thompson, Shields, Waugh & Wright.

https://www.emeraldancestors.com/news/Donaghcloney_Presbyterian,_Co_Down._Baptisms_1844_-_1864/23/

They do a 1 month subscription for under £10-
https://www.emeraldancestors.com/membership/

Thank you.  I will have to check that out!
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: hallmark on Monday 16 January 17 20:48 GMT (UK)
A man multitasking!!   ;D
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: KatC on Monday 16 January 17 22:31 GMT (UK)
Donaghcloney Church of Ireland  April 19? 1854 John baptizeedd by Henry and Eliza McAfee Tullyheron

There is another child in 1856, probably February.  I think it is Elizabeth something.  The middle name perhaps  starts with a Ble (then 2 letters) and ends with a Y.  Henry and Eliza McAfee  Tullyheron  Same church.

The records I have go up to July 1856, so you'll have to find another source.  I can check to see if McAfee went to that church earlier but my baptisms begin 1829, so I may not catch Henry's baptism. I have marriages for a longer stretch, but assume you have any records of a later date.
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: eileenwilson on Monday 16 January 17 22:49 GMT (UK)
Thanks for those.  Birth dates are fluid, as I have John born about 1856. Next child is about 1858 is named Margaret, but there could be one in between.  Prior to 1856 are Alice and Henry.  Since Henry and Eliza were married in 1845, there must be children between 1846 and 1854. Appreciate the help.  I only just found their marriage a couple of days ago, so searching in this area is new to me.
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: hallmark on Monday 16 January 17 22:59 GMT (UK)
Did they all leave Ireland before marrying?

Could there be marriages for them online??
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: eileenwilson on Monday 16 January 17 23:04 GMT (UK)
The earliest I find them is in the 1881 Scottish census in Glasgow, with the ones I know about all unmarried, altho' I think Henry Jr. was married and widowed, as there is a grandson in the household.  I thought I had accounted for all of the children until I found Eliza and Henry's marriage in 1845 which leaves a gap of about five years before the children I have listed begin to appear.
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: KatC on Monday 16 January 17 23:29 GMT (UK)
Donaghcloney Church of Ireland
Alice bapt Aug 26, 1846  Henry and Elizabeth McAfee Banogue
Elizabeth  bapt Sept 3, 1851  Tullyheron

Did not see Henry
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: eileenwilson on Monday 16 January 17 23:37 GMT (UK)
Super.  Much appreciated.  Alice got younger and younger as she got older!  And I didn't have Elizabeth.
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: eileenwilson on Tuesday 17 January 17 20:03 GMT (UK)
Donaghcloney Church of Ireland  April 19? 1854 John baptizeedd by Henry and Eliza McAfee Tullyheron

There is another child in 1856, probably February.  I think it is Elizabeth something.  The middle name perhaps  starts with a Ble (then 2 letters) and ends with a Y.  Henry and Eliza McAfee  Tullyheron  Same church.

The records I have go up to July 1856, so you'll have to find another source.  I can check to see if McAfee went to that church earlier but my baptisms begin 1829, so I may not catch Henry's baptism. I have marriages for a longer stretch, but assume you have any records of a later date.

I see on the marriage of Annabella McPhee and Thomas Anderson in Glasgow in 1886 that one of the witnesses is Elizabeth Bleaney McPhee, so that's the baptism in February 1856 that you found.
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: jackolyn on Wednesday 16 August 17 21:58 BST (UK)
Hello Eileen,
I have information on Walter Hugh McPhee, son of Henry McPhee and Elizabeth O'Neill. I just got through posting some of it on Wiki Tree. Here is the link ..
https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=McPhee-548&public=1
My main research is with the Cumberford/Cummerford etc families. I am more than willing to share information on this family. If you are interested, please contact me either through Wiki Tree or direct at smith27 at myemc.net....written as such to avoid the email being "picked up".
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: eileenwilson on Wednesday 16 August 17 22:25 BST (UK)
I have replied directly to your email, so let me know if you don't receive it.  Thanks!
Title: Re: McPhee/McAfee - Neill (Donaghcloney)
Post by: jackolyn on Wednesday 16 August 17 23:03 BST (UK)
Got it Eileen...just responded to you direct. Thank you!