RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: cupcake on Saturday 14 January 17 09:42 GMT (UK)
-
I have been for many years trying to find my GGG Grandparents burial place -William MOFFAT & Christian MOFFAT (Fraser)
I was sent information that they died Carlisle - William 1848 Christian 1846 Have ordered Christian's death Certificate from GRO - which may or may not be her. Unfortunately, searched for Williams - Vol 25 Page 48 but not there.
I understand Cemeteries in Carlisle did not open until 1855 any burial before this were in the many Churchyards around the city.
cupcake
-
When were they born. :-\
The death cert that you mention for Christian gives an age at death of 58
MOFFAT, CHRISTIAN age 58
1846 March Quarter in CARLISLE Volume 25 Page 62
The death cert in Carlisle 1848 for William has age as 22
Both taken from new GRO index pages
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
-
William was born 16 April 1772 Christian was born 1777 so, it looks as if the certificate I have ordered, isn't her.
I had hoped if it had been her, the informant would have been William. I didn't see an age for Christian when I ordered the certificate.
Looks as if I am back to square one.
ADD That was the site I ordered from. Thank you.
cupcake
-
The information I was given for William MOFFAT was Vol 25 Page 48 and obviously, incorrect.
-
Definitely not yours :-[
MOFFAT, WILLIAM 22
GRO Reference: 1848 Dec Quarter in CARLISLE Volume 25 Page 48
GRO indexes have only recently added the age at death to the earlier records, they now also have mothers maiden name prior to 1911. They were running a trial in November for PDF copies and have left the information there.
You can but hope that someone has the age of Christian wrong and that she is yours. I can't see one that would fit that death on the 1841 census ???
-
Yes, definitely not my William :(
Will see what the certificate has to give and hope someone has the wrong age for Christian.
I have no trace of William & Christian other than their marriage at Annan on the 10 September 1796.
On their son James MOFFAT's death entry Annan -10 May 1857 - it gives his parents William & Christian as deceased. The problem there are no BMD's for Annan before 1855. So, when I was given the Carlisle details, I thought or, rather hoped, I had found them.
Have looked on the census's for 1841 they seem to have disappeared without a trace.
Thank you for your help.
cupcake
-
I realise that one of their children ended up in Carlisle so that was an obvious choice. The lack of PR's for Annan is anyones worst nightmare. I don't have Scottish ancestors so sadly no access to Scotlands people.
I can't see any trace of them on 1841 census which is strange with regards to the death for Christian.
Rosie
-
Could you tell me which of their children ended up in Carlisle - was it James as I can't find him on the 1841 census?
Yes, the lack of PR's for Annan is any ones worst nightmare. I have William as a Blacksmith. Was able to get William and Christian's marriage from Scotland's People which just gives their name place of marriage and date.
I haven't been able to find them on 1841 census :(
Many thanks for all your information no matter how small.
ADD From James MOFFAT's death entry he was a shoemaker and died in lodgings in Annan. There is also a marriage in the Annandale People in Carlisle Newspaper 1812 -1858, for James MOFFAT shoemaker to Janet IRVING 1822 could be my James.
cupcake
-
I was only going by an online tree so possibly wrong
Andrew Moffat died 2 January 1872 Carlisle - supposedly at 73 Milbourne Street, Carlisle in 1871
William Graham 35 Police Officer bn Little Bampton
Isabella Graham 43
Catherine Graham 12
Andrew Moffat 80 Father in law - widower
Isabella A Moffat 15 Niece in law
Rest born Scotland
They have his brothers James dying in Annan 10 May 1857 and Joseph in Newton Stewart 29 June 1871
If this is your family then they obviously were in Scotland before the 1861 so you could even eliminate Carlisle as a place of death
-
William & Christian had a son Andrew born 1797, possibly named after Christian's father Andrew - that's all I have on him.
The brother's are mine - James dying in lodgings Annan 10 May 1857 (have his death entry to confirm this) Joseph in Newton Stewart (my GG Grandfather) also have his death entry.
Thanks again.
Cupcake
-
If William & Christian died in Annan is there likely to be a gravestone :-\
-
I have checked the MI's for both churchyards in Annan and no William or Christian MOFFAT. That is not to say they aren't buried in Annan, just no headstone, which surprises me as he was a Blacksmith and could possibly afford one.
-
That is a shame. No sign of a will either then.
-
Just a thought - if the James MOFFAT (shoemaker)living in Carlisle and married a Janet IRVING in Annan as she was from Annan, then her death would possibly be registered in Carlisle, and would have given me some information.
On James's death entry 1857 he was a widower (no name) and then he returned to Annan, where died in Lodgings.
-
That is a shame. No sign of a will either then.
Yes, it is a shame :(
-
I have checked the MI's for both churchyards in Annan and no William or Christian MOFFAT. That is not to say they aren't buried in Annan, just no headstone, which surprises me as he was a Blacksmith and could possibly afford one.
I did check with the burial ground department to see if the their records could tell me where William & Christian could be buried - but their records don't start till 1872.
-
There is a record of a William Moffat aged 76 Being buried on the 10th Aug. 1848 at Dumfries.
-
There is a record of a William Moffat aged 76 Being buried on the 10th Aug. 1848 at Dumfries.
The age of this William MOFFAT fits in with the year he was born 1772. Do you have anymore details as to where in Dumfries he was buried.
cupcake
-
My apologies the burial was 13th of Aug.
No the record was from the Church of Scotland, Dumfries (town not county) and there may have been more than one of those?
-
My apologies the burial was 13th of Aug.
No the record was from the Church of Scotland, Dumfries (town not county) and there may have been more than one of those?
Thank you for the change of date. Not sure where to get the Church of Scotland records.
There is an entry in the Dumfries People in Carlisle Newspapers (marriage and Deaths 1775 - 1858) for an Andrew who died 18 Nov 1815 - Montego Bay - son of William MOFFAT, Blacksmith Dumfries. Pacquet. My William had a son Andrew ( wonder what this Andrew was doing in Montego Bay.
Will be worth contacting the Carlisle Library to see if they can give me any information, I have nothing to loose.
cupcake
-
Have been on Scotlands People and there are 4 William MOFFAT deaths - two from Dumfries I looked at the first one - but not my William - should have looked at the one you mentioned, first. Will have to buy more credits this week, to see the other one. It gives the burial place as St Mary's Churchyard, Dumfries.
Thank you.
cupcake
-
I was only going by an online tree so possibly wrong
Andrew Moffat died 2 January 1872 Carlisle - supposedly at 73 Milbourne Street, Carlisle in 1871
William Graham 35 Police Officer bn Little Bampton
Isabella Graham 43
Catherine Graham 12
Andrew Moffat 80 Father in law - widower
Isabella A Moffat 15 Niece in law
Rest born Scotland
They have his brothers James dying in Annan 10 May 1857 and Joseph in Newton Stewart 29 June 1871
If this is your family then they obviously were in Scotland before the 1861 so you could even eliminate Carlisle as a place of death
I think you could be right to eliminate Carlisle as a place of death.
cupcake
-
rosie99
I have come to the conclusion this William doesn't want to be found.
Been at it for most of the day and now my brain is mush.
cupcake
-
I was only going by an online tree so possibly wrong
Andrew Moffat died 2 January 1872 Carlisle - supposedly at 73 Milbourne Street, Carlisle in 1871
William Graham 35 Police Officer bn Little Bampton
Isabella Graham 43
Catherine Graham 12
Andrew Moffat 80 Father in law - widower
Isabella A Moffat 15 Niece in law
Rest born Scotland
They have his brothers James dying in Annan 10 May 1857 and Joseph in Newton Stewart 29 June 1871
If this is your family then they obviously were in Scotland before the 1861 so you could even eliminate Carlisle as a place of death
Going back to this - it says Andrew died 2 January 1872 Carlisle which would make him 75 as he was born 1797, this gives his age as 80 - could this be a mistake. Will have a look on the GRO site.
-
Have just looked up Andrew in the GRO - there is only one entry giving his age as 83 - March quarter vol 10b page 313 :-\
cupcake
-
rosie99,
Could you please tell me where you got the online family tree - may have information that could help me.
cupcake
-
Hi cupcake
There are a couple of trees on Ancestry I just searched William Moffat wife Christian Fraser.
Rosie
-
My apologies the burial was 13th of Aug.
No the record was from the Church of Scotland, Dumfries (town not county) and there may have been more than one of those?
Managed to get the William MOFFAT burial for the 13 August 1848 - just says he was buried in Dumfries (anno)1848, whatever that means. Will have to go to my local library and see if they can assist.
cupcake
-
Rosie
Thank you again :).
-
Rosie
Will have a look on Ancestry when I visit my local library.
cupcake
-
rosie
Have been on Ancestry at the library and there are several Family trees.
A few of them have a William MOFFAT died June 1871 at the age of 99 also his wife Christine died June 1871 age 97. Will check on Scotlands People which should confirm or eliminate.
The William MOFFAT age 76 (age fits in with his DOB) and buried in Dumfries - no burial records to confirm this.
cupcake
-
rosie
Have been on Ancestry at the library and there are several Family trees.
A few of them have a William MOFFAT died June 1871 at the age of 99 also his wife Christine died June 1871 age 97. Will check on Scotlands People which should confirm or eliminate.
The William MOFFAT age 76 (age fits in with his DOB) and buried in Dumfries - no burial records to confirm this.
cupcake
Will have to put on my thinking head on - just realised William & Christian were deceased by 1857 from info on James's death certificate. However, I found a daughter of William & Christian, Mary born 1806 died 1867 widow, aged 61 yrs. She was married to a Joseph Haining, shoemaker, Lochmaben.
cupcake
-
When were they born. :-\
The death cert that you mention for Christian gives an age at death of 58
MOFFAT, CHRISTIAN age 58
1846 March Quarter in CARLISLE Volume 25 Page 62
The death cert in Carlisle 1848 for William has age as 22
Both taken from new GRO index pages
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
I have received the death certificate I ordered from GRO, but it isn't my Christian MOFFAT - this Christian is 58yrs. and a Spinster.
cupcake
-
It looks as though she probably remained in Scotland then :-\
-
It would seem that way.
Heaven knows where she and her husband William are buried :-\