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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: mgraham1 on Tuesday 10 January 17 18:36 GMT (UK)

Title: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: mgraham1 on Tuesday 10 January 17 18:36 GMT (UK)
I am looking for any info to go deeper into my family tree - regarding John and Mary Graham - they are supposedly the parents of Allan Graham born 1818 in Torpenhow Cumberland - he was married to Mary Graham and they had children Ann, Elizabeth Mary and Robert

Info info would be appreciated
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 10 January 17 22:48 GMT (UK)
I can see an 1851 entry for a widowed Allan Graham aged 33 but he was born Bothel.  Children Robert 7 and Mary 4 also born Bothel

HO107 Piece 2435 Folio 411 Page 17
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 10 January 17 22:53 GMT (UK)
Quote
he was married to Mary Graham and they had children Ann, Elizabeth Mary and Robert

GRO maiden name search on son Roberts birth shows mmn Scott

Marriages December qtr 1843 
Allan Graham/Ann Scott     Cockermouth    25   107

There are a number of Ann/Mary Graham deaths in the Cockermouth RD from 1846-1851
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: mgraham1 on Tuesday 10 January 17 23:07 GMT (UK)
That could well make sense

as i have him also living with a Mary Graham and there were 2 children born after 1851 -

so timeline could be

marries Ann Scott  in 1843
has 2 children Mary and Robert

between 1847 and 1851  Ann dies

before 1851 is living with Mary

has 2 children Ann and Elizabeth

ok thank you for that - i will look into it further






 but havent got the date for that yet
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 10 January 17 23:09 GMT (UK)
The 1843 marriage is the only one for an Allan/Allen Graham but see this 1861 entry - children b Bothel


Allen Graham   43 b Torpenhow
Mary  44 b Wigton
Ann  8
Margaret  8
Elizabeth  5
RG9 Piece 3940 Folio 66 Page 16
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 10 January 17 23:12 GMT (UK)
GRO maiden name search on the twins shows mmn Barnes
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 10 January 17 23:20 GMT (UK)
Quote
before 1851 is living with Mary

has 2 children Ann and Elizabeth

Has 3 children - twins plus another - see 1861 entry above
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 10 January 17 23:25 GMT (UK)
Mary & Robert from his 1843 marriage were both working as servants in 1861 - both b Bothel

In 1871 - there is a 3yr old granddaughter Maria A Graham b Torpenhow.  Maiden name search on Maria indicates she was illegitimate
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 10 January 17 23:43 GMT (UK)
Maria's mother was Mary - this is from FS

Name    Maria Ann Graham
Gender    Female
Christening Date    25 Apr 1868
Christening Place    TORPENHOW,CUMBERLAND,ENGLAND
Mother's Name    Mary Graham
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: mgraham1 on Wednesday 11 January 17 00:07 GMT (UK)
I now have Allans siblings Ann, Joseph, Alexander and Jane

His father John Graham as born in Ireland in about 1791

Is there a way to find his parents in ireland?
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 11 January 17 00:20 GMT (UK)
Quote
I now have Allans siblings Ann, Joseph, Alexander and Jane

Quote
His father John Graham as born in Ireland in about 1791

Where has that info come from?

Family Search shows 6 baptisms in Torpenhow to a John & Mary Graham - none of whom match the names you have given above apart from Alan

Robert 28.5.1816
Alan 10.9.1818
John 3.7.1819
William 16.9.1821
Sarah 27.7.1823
Thomas 7.8.1825
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 11 January 17 00:31 GMT (UK)
There is a possibility Allan's "wife" Mary was previously married to a John White.  There is a widowed Mary White born 1818 Wigton - no children - living next door to a William Graham & family in 1851.

Mary Barnes married John White in 1844 in Wigton

When a widow "re-marries" and has children to her second marriage - the birth certs will always show her maiden name and not her previous married name

I would recommend you buy a copy of Allan's 1843 marriage cert to confirm his father was John
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: mgraham1 on Wednesday 11 January 17 00:43 GMT (UK)
After updating the previous info for Allan, it gave me some more hints on ancestry

one of these was a family tree that provided the dates for john and mary (mary born in bothel)

also there were their children including an alan graham born 1818 

all the births etc seem to be in and around cumberland
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: mgraham1 on Wednesday 11 January 17 00:52 GMT (UK)
Then in the 1841 census for bothel we have

:   
Name   Age
John Graham   50
Mary Graham   40

Mary Graham   14
Maria Graham   12
Ann Graham   10
Joseph Graham   8
Alexander Graham   6
Jane Graham   4

im assuming Allan would have left here by now
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 11 January 17 00:52 GMT (UK)
Graham was quite a popular surname in Cumberland and I never trust anybody else's research.  This is the 1841 entry for Torpenhow the tree you have viewed is taken from

John Graham   50 agric labourer b Ireland
Mary  40
Mary   14
Maria  12
Ann  10
Joseph  8
Alexander 6
Jane Graham 4
HO107 Piece 163/9 Folio 9 Page 13
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: mgraham1 on Wednesday 11 January 17 00:56 GMT (UK)
Yes - i have a few to buy before i have them as confirmed
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 11 January 17 01:11 GMT (UK)
There is an 1851 entry for a widowed Mary Graham b Bothel 1796 living in Bothel & Threapland with sons William 29  and Thomas 26 which match the Family Search baptisms I found  in my earlier reply.  On the next page is the 1851 entry for Allan Graham
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: mgraham1 on Wednesday 11 January 17 09:18 GMT (UK)
In the Irish records there is a John Graham born 1791  which goes with what i have already

Parents are  George Graham and Ann Darcy - from a baptism record

but there seems to be no marriage record for them - was hoping that if they married close to the year John was born  it might give me more to go on - i have searched the irish and british records that i can get access to

and then to see if he has any siblings - looks like another birth cert needed lol
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: mgraham1 on Wednesday 11 January 17 09:22 GMT (UK)
I think i may have to get certs for Ann, Margaret and Elizabeth to see if they are Allans children or if Mary is a relative living with Allan (would explain no marriage cert)
Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 11 January 17 12:09 GMT (UK)
Please see replies 5 and 11

Title: Re: Grahams of Cumberland (Torpenhow and Bothel)
Post by: mgraham1 on Wednesday 18 March 20 22:27 GMT (UK)
Sorry its been a while, life got in the way lol

something i have come across, Allen graham who it says died in 1880, who seems to be the father of robert,  on roberts 1864 marriage certificate it says that allen his father is deceased

would there be a reason for putting deceased even if he wasnt?