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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: bullzeye on Friday 06 January 17 12:42 GMT (UK)

Title: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: bullzeye on Friday 06 January 17 12:42 GMT (UK)
Can anyone tell me where Sundial Cottage, Gilmerton is please?  I cannot find it by searching postal addresses and would like to locate it within the village and visit later this year when I go to Edinburgh.  My husbands relatives (Mitchell) used to live there in mid - late 1800's.
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: KitCarson on Friday 06 January 17 13:07 GMT (UK)
I live not too far from Gilmerton, but I couldn't tell you where Sundial Cottage was.  I expect that in the mid/late 1800's Drum Street, and possibly a couple of streets leading off it (Ravenscroft?), were all that Gilmerton consisted of.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Gilmerton+Cove/@55.9017121,-3.1373785,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x52dd3e88314a5fd4!8m2!3d55.9056212!4d-3.1331548

Hope that someone can help.
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: isobelw on Friday 06 January 17 13:28 GMT (UK)
The Canmore site mentions a Hudson Cottage which was at 389 Gilmerton Road and had a sundial over the gate. I wonder if maybe locals called it Sundial Cottage.
Isobel
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: KitCarson on Friday 06 January 17 13:42 GMT (UK)
I expect someone more experienced than I could find you a decent map on the NLS or Canmore sites.  This very blurred image is all I can find:

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=55.9038&lon=-3.1418&layers=5&b=1

link attached now

Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: isobelw on Friday 06 January 17 13:45 GMT (UK)
If you put 389 Gilmerton road into Google streetview you will see Hudson cottage which still has the sundial above the gate.
Isobel
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: KitCarson on Friday 06 January 17 14:05 GMT (UK)
I think 389 Gilmerton Road is closer to Moredun/Liberton than Gilmerton settlement itself.

Hopefully this map will show you the general area around the time you are interested in.

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=55.9038&lon=-3.1418&layers=5&b=1

Kit
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: suzilad on Friday 06 January 17 18:20 GMT (UK)


Hi,
    I think Sundial Cottage is at the top of Ravenscroft Street Gilmerton (this was previously Main Street )
. If you google  Westland Cottages I am pretty sure the cottage is directly opposite them .

There was a company in the area known as "Sundial"  a few years ago which I believe was based in this area.

If it is the Mitchells who had the "Mechanic Arms" Public House in Gilmerton that your husband is connected to --- there is a descendant of this family still runs it which is locally known as "Mitchells "

suzilad
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 07 January 17 08:52 GMT (UK)
Interesting thread on RootsWeb.  Open all the posts listed at the bottom of the thread.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/MIDLOTHIAN/2010-07/1278345327

Kit
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: suzilad on Saturday 07 January 17 10:16 GMT (UK)


Thank you for the link I sometimes go back to Gilmerton and have a walk down "Memory Lane " family were  in the area in mid 1880's until recently.
The other public house "The Gardeners Arms " known locally as "Marshalls " in the 1940's/50's or the "top shop" Mechanic Arms as the "bottom shop" is now closed
The hall at the crossroads is "The Society Hall " and Mr Cumberland was the fishmonger his son was Alan I was fascinated as a child at the water continually running down the window of the shop.
Violet Mitchell had two daughters Molly who had the shop on the opposite corner of Main Street as it was then and Patsy it is her daughter who runs the pub now. Violet's son was known as Mac he run the pub until his death many years ago .
Hope this helps fill in some blanks .
I hope to be in the area soon and will see it I can find the cottage .
I think the company I refer to known as Sundial was in fact a laundrette /laundry business.

suzilad
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: Forfarian on Saturday 07 January 17 15:17 GMT (UK)
It may well be that Sundial Cottage is Hudson Cottage, but you cannot be sure of that.

Have you got them in any of the census? And have you looked at the originals of the census to see what the addresses of the neighbours were? Is Hudson Cottage also listed? Because if so it obviously isn't Sundial Cottage.

Have you looked at the Valuation Rolls? I don't see a house called Sundial Cottage, but you might recognise the name of one of your Mitchells. The original will tell you what street (if any) Sundial Cottage is/was in.

This map http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=55.9044&lon=-3.1334&layers=168&b=1 was surveyed in 1893. Were your Mitchells in Sundial Cottage in the 1891 census and/or 1895 Valuation Roll?
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: suzilad on Saturday 07 January 17 15:28 GMT (UK)


Hudson Cottage is on the Gilmerton Road practically next door to the Robin's Nest Public House it many years ago had a sundial above the gate and backs on to Liberton Golf Course .

The Mitchells had the Mechanic Arms in the early 1900's as I recall my grandmother remembered Violet's grandmother from then.

suzilad
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: bullzeye on Saturday 07 January 17 17:37 GMT (UK)
To fill in a bit of my Mitchell family in Gilmerton. My grest grandfather Charles Mitchell and his wife Janet (nee Blackwood ) lived in Ferniehill.
My Grand father  was James Blackwood Mitchell,born1878 in liberton,
His elder brother was John Charles Mitchell born1871 in Newton
His younger brother George Blackwood Mitchell born 1882
His sisters were Isabella Taylor M born 1873
E Watt Peebles Mitchellborn 1875
Jane Anderson Mitchell born 1880
[Sundial ]was the house that my Grand aunt (widow of John Charles who  was a surgeon in Egypt and then South Africa ) He died in Africa  and his family returned to Gilmerton in the 1920s.
They returned to Rhodesia after several years and their houses out there were always called SUNDIAL.

I visited Gilmerton about 10 years ago and visited Sundial . We stopped at the post offic and one of the postmen directed us . I think it was a road off the main road opposite the Post office along about 50 yards on the left near  right angled corner and opposite an office building /buiders yard.

If I remember correctly it had a double bay window on the ground floor and the name Sundial on the glass panel above the front door.
I've tried street view but no success yet.
Can anyone help please to locate it and are there any other Blackwood Mitchell relative still in the village.

I look forward to reading any information you can provide.
Thank you . Happy New Year.
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: suzilad on Saturday 07 January 17 18:30 GMT (UK)


Hi bullzeye,
                The house I am thinking of is at 89 Ravenscroft Street  Gilmerton . The main street you are thinking of is Drum Street if you are heading south out of Edinburgh  Ravenscroft Street or Main Street as it was is on the right . The church was on the right and further up on left post office office.
As you get to the top of the street there is a farm on the left  and a   lane known locally as "The Middle Strip " this took the miners down to the local pit known as "The Brosey " straight ahead is a dead end -- on the right is Westland Cottages and right opposite is Sundial .
Ferniehill was a big estate at one time now there are lots of houses built on it.
Can't think of  any Mitchells who might be connected to you but will get back if i do

suzilad
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: bullzeye on Saturday 07 January 17 20:01 GMT (UK)
dear Suzielad,
thanks for the directions to Sundial . I remember looking at Street map before and thought the house looked familiar but was put off by the name Glencairn on the gate post.
I will be up in Edinburgh in March and will visit Gilmerton. maybe I'll get a bit more time to search around for the Tofts and Fernihill as well.
many thanks again. Angus.
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: suzilad on Saturday 07 January 17 20:10 GMT (UK)

Hi again,
             You mentioned Ferniehill could your relative have lived  in Ferniehill Road by any chance I remember a woman living in quite a substantial house there and my granny calling her Teen Mitchell .
The other thing you mentioned the church did you go up a lane beside the church was it a type of market garden -- I remember going there for vegetables and pretty sure the name was Blackwood ring a bell ?
suzilad

Just noticed the Tofts are what were small cottages at the left hand side of the road at the top of Newtoft Street which was once New Street,
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 07 January 17 22:13 GMT (UK)
Maybe checking the actual image for the 1920 Valuation Roll might give some clues on surrounding properties to this entry (from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk):

Mrs Janet Mitchell, Proprietor Occupier, House and Stable, Sundial, Gilmerton, Liberton
1920
VR010800048

Janet Mitchell still showing for the 1925 and 1930 VRs. The address showing on both entries as House and Stable, Sundial, Main Street Gilmerton

Monica  :)
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 07 January 17 23:00 GMT (UK)
What a great find Monica.  I expect Angus will be very pleased.

Kit
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 07 January 17 23:08 GMT (UK)
The 1931-32 Post Office Directory also shows two likely connected entries:

Mrs Janet Mitchell at 'Viewbank' New Street, Gilmerton, and

Mrs John C Mitchell at 'Sundial' Main Street, Gilmerton

https://archive.org/stream/postofficeann193132edin#page/396/mode/2up

These directories also give an address listing. A useful way of seeing where a property actually was by seeing where it was next too (like the valuation rolls). Not sure why the name Mitchell doesn't feature there https://archive.org/stream/postofficeann193132edin#page/912/mode/2up

Added: From the 1925-26 Directory, Janet Mitchell shows at Sundial on the street listing https://archive.org/stream/postofficeann192526edin#page/818/mode/2up Suzilad and Kit, can you get any clues on location from this listing?

Monica
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 07 January 17 23:39 GMT (UK)
A number of the place names are shown on the map Forfarian posted at #10.  If it was next to/close to the Manse, that should be easy enough to find on the ground?  Not sure if I have time tomorrow but if I do, I might just pop over to Gilmerton and have a look :)

Kit
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 08 January 17 00:42 GMT (UK)
Not sure if I have time tomorrow but if I do, I might just pop over to Gilmerton and have a look :)
I was thinking the same thing - might bump into you!
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: suzilad on Sunday 08 January 17 10:38 GMT (UK)

Gosh I was thinking the same thing !!! Lived in Gilmerton until five years ago .

Mum right back to my great great grandparents were all born there lived and died there.

suzilad

ADDED -- It might be of some interest to bullzeye that in the directory which Monica posted there is

a James Blackwood Mitchell --(D.McLaren)  a pharmacist at 58 South Clerk Street Edinburgh and the house is given as 2 Bernard Terrace.

Might this be his grandfather ?

suzilad

Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: suzilad on Sunday 08 January 17 12:58 GMT (UK)


I had a spare few credits on SP and had a look at the Valuation Roll for 1930

At Venture Fair which is along the lane beside South Farm is a piggery which belonged to a Alan Repdath
coming back on to Main Street is Glencairn which is owned by a Mrs. Marion Kerr (and later by her son Thomas Kerr  ) next is Mrs. Janet Mitchell Sundial  then a Mrs. Susan Watson who owned all the houses in Ravenscroft Place as my grandfather was born there moved a few doors down when he and my gran married and my mother was  also born there he is on the sheet listed as a tenant
We found the rent book for the property when my gran died and it named the owner as Mrs. Susan Watson Saxe Coburg Edinburgh.
It appears that Sundial is where I thought.


suzilad
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: KitCarson on Sunday 08 January 17 13:16 GMT (UK)
So, are we saying that Sundial is on the same side as Glencairn (not the Westland Cottage side) and accessed at the very end of the off-shoot lane?

Streetview with 'Glencairn' on the left:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.902556,-3.1359939,3a,75y,183.33h,85.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_1D9Qx7w_6WhcCa6hOlyUA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

End of off-shoot lane
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.9022904,-3.1363683,3a,75y,184.85h,63.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3xiaJ8tsHdEvxPF6X-S4Xg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

which looks like 'Hay Cottage' in the side by side map:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=18&lat=55.9024&lon=-3.1360&layers=168&right=BingHyb

or, have I got it completely wrong  :P

Kit

Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: bullzeye on Sunday 08 January 17 16:19 GMT (UK)
Dear Suzielad, kit and Monica,
You certainly have been busy . Now I'm being spurred into getting my family history out again.
Sundial is beginning to come to life again.
Mrs J.C .Mitchell was my grand uncles widow and I think ther were 5children, three girls and two boys
,Joyce, born 1893,Catheriine born 1895,Richard born 1902 (emigrated to Canada in late 1940's),John Charles Gibson Mitchell born in South Africa 1905, Grizel , born 1909 in South Africa. All three followed their father into medicine.
their father died in in 1913 in Johanesberg of tuberculosis and the family returned a to Gilmerton.
John returned to South Africa after graduating in medicine at Edinburgh.inthe late 30s and then later to Souther Rhodesia.

My great grandmother Janet( aka Jennie) married Charles Mitchell born in Newton 1847.
Janet died 23/12/1930 at Ferniehill Road Gilmerton . CHarles was a Carter,haulier and dairyman .

The Mitchell family I belong to was from Woolmet, Liberton,Inveresk And Gilmerton.
the search continues.
Many thanks for all your help.
Best regards, Angus
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: suzilad on Sunday 08 January 17 18:19 GMT (UK)


Hi Kit,
         Yes it is last cottage next to Glencairn . The other cottage I think was a worker's cottage on the estate next door -- it was in the 50/60's a market garden owned by a Bob Ritchie ,
 I'm sometimes meet up with a lady who had a shop in the area and  I am hoping she will confirm a few other things about the Mitchell family for Angus.

Angus if I can help in any other way please just ask I am often in Gilmerton .I am actually trying to find out a bit more about the Mitchell lady who lived in Ferniehill Road and the Blackwoods.

suzilad

Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: bullzeye on Sunday 08 January 17 18:46 GMT (UK)
Hello again Suzielad,
Thank you for all your efforts to locate" Sundial ". We are coming up to Edinburgh in March and will visit Gilmerton.
As far as Charles and Janet Mitchell , I can give you birth dates, census details etc when I get my act together. I haven't really done much family history for 5 or so years as I was working away.

do you subscribe to Ancestry as I have put some. Information there on the Mitchell and Blackwood Mitchell trees.
Please let me know how I can help.
Best regards, Angus
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 09 January 17 16:10 GMT (UK)
Well done Suzilad - enjoyed reading this one -  ;D

Regards
Sandra  ;D
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: suzilad on Monday 09 January 17 18:14 GMT (UK)


Oh thank you Sandra my happy hunting ground .

suzilad :)
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: bullzeye on Sunday 05 March 17 12:30 GMT (UK)
Belated reply. Just confiming that James BLACKWOOD Mitchell  was my grandfather.
John Charles Mitchell and George Blackwood Mitchell were his older and younger brother respectively.
has anyone any details of George Blackwood. he was a mechanical engineer and served through
WW 1 with the Oxford and Bucks  . HE survived and married in Aberdeen after the war but I have no further information of him or his family.
Best regards, Bullzeye
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: tidybooks on Sunday 05 March 17 19:59 GMT (UK)
Hi bullzeye,

On Scotland Peoples website, https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk), I found the marriage of George Blackwood Mitchell to an Elizabeth Clark or Paterson in St Nicholas, Aberdeen in 1920, however, in 1921 there is a death of a George Blackwood Mitchell in Ayr, aged 39, certificate 578/1 421. Not sure if he is yours, but it ties in with his year of birth 1882.

Tom
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: tidybooks on Sunday 05 March 17 20:16 GMT (UK)
Hi Bullzeye,

Got a stroke of luck, looked up "The Scotsman, Edinburgh, Scotland 05 Oct 1921" and there is an article, " Gilmerton. Mans Fatal Injuries in Motor Accident". It states that a George Mitchell, motor mechanic, of Cassilis Road, Maybole died 04 Oct 1921, as a result of a motor cycle accident on Howmoor, Maybole. It states his father was Charles Mitchell, Fernieside Lodge, Gilmerton and had taken up residence in Maybole recently, he left a widow and 2 children.

Tom
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: bullzeye on Sunday 05 March 17 20:30 GMT (UK)
Tom,
Thank you for your research. This is a brilliant result.
I had heard somewhere of a motor cycle accident in the family but there was no name given.
my father and uncle never talked about George Blackwood Mitchell and When I was doing research he seemed to disappear after the age of 17 until Ifound his army details and then his marriage in Aberdeen.
The Blackwood family originally came from New Cumnock in Ayrshire so I wonder whether he caught up with the old folk when he returned.
THe two children  I think may be from his wife's previous marriage.

Many ,many thanks  Tom for this breakthrough....I'm pretty sure I would have struggled without your help.
All Best regards, Angus
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: suzilad on Sunday 05 March 17 20:53 GMT (UK)

That's great news for you bullzeye  I hope your  find everything you are looking for at NRH  when you visit.

 I wonder Fernieside Lodge would on the Ferniehill Road  -- it was a big estate until the late 1940's early 50's when they started building local council houses.
There was a nice  lodge house which was turned into a public house called Ferniehill Inn or known locally as "The Eagles "  as there were iron gates with eagles above them wonder if this was it .
Unfortunately it was knocked down a few years ago and houses erected on the site

suzilad
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: ADP on Monday 06 March 17 00:19 GMT (UK)
Fernieside lodge is shown on this 1890s Ordnance Survey map.

http://maps.nls.uk/view/74400788

To find it: Liberton Parish is yellow-ish coloured parish to the south-east of the City of Edinburgh Parish (pink). Fernieside Lodge can be found not far from Liberton Parish's boundary with Newton Parish (light blue).

In today's terms, I reckon that places it near the corner of Fernieside Drive and Moredun Park Road. See  the following street map.

http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=329366&y=669495&z=110&sv=329366,669495&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf&dn=818&ax=329366&ay=669495&lm=0

Then see the old walls and building in Fernieside Drive on street view of Google Maps.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.9136089,-3.1322725,3a,75y,86.09h,77.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ3MOoTeV13fqsGnNnaTWFA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

The 1894 25" Ordnance Survey map shows Fernieside Lodge in much more detail (top centre of the map). You see the gateway and gatehouse as shown on Google Maps streetview above.

http://maps.nls.uk/view/82878012

The 1932 25" Ordnance Survey map shows the "big house" as Fernieside House.

http://maps.nls.uk/view/82878021

The City of Edinburgh Council website refers to the house being demolished in the 1950s, and this part being set out as a public park.

ADP
Title: Re: Gilmerton, near Edinburgh
Post by: bullzeye on Monday 06 March 17 07:52 GMT (UK)
Many thanks for all the information. The maps are a great help and I really appreciate the time and effort you have put into to helping me with my research. I am coming up to Edinburgh next week to have a walk around Gilmerton and will use your maps as a guide.
Thank you again.
Bullzeye