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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: squinn5 on Monday 19 December 16 21:13 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I am trying to work out the children of Christopher Todd & Eleanor Hart, who were married in 1779. Refer previous post on their son George Todd
I have been reviewing all of the trees on ancestry and they all basically have the same information but I am wondering why many of the trees have two ‘Christopher’s being born to Christopher & Eleanor:
• Elizabeth Hart 1778–1853
• Robert Todd 1780–1837
• Christopher Todd 1782–1847
• Eleanor Todd 1784–1848
• Mary Todd 1787–
• William Todd 1789–
• Ann Todd 1791–
• Joseph Todd 1793–1797
• George Todd 1797–1872
• Christopher 1803-1850
This can’t be accurate as from what I can tell, they only had son named Christopher (born 1782 and died 1847).
To verify the children of Christopher & Eleanor’s children, I’ve been going through Family Search, FreeReg & Durham Records on line to find their baptism and marriages myself along with the children of those marriages (some of the trees have dates, some don’t).
According to the photo on find my graves, the Christopher listed is aged 52 (making him born 1798), but the headstone says ‘son & brother’ of the above, this would indicate to me that he is the son of Robert and brother to the three females listed
The trees on Ancestry for Robert Todd & Isabella Apedale, all have them having a different son named Christopher being born in 1803 and no death date.
• Elizabeth Todd 1802–
• Christopher Todd 1803
• Ann Todd 1805–
• Eleanor Todd 1808–1849
• Hannah Todd 1813-1835
• Margaret Todd 1810–
• Mary Todd 1820–1823
Am I right in thinking that the Christopher on the headstone is this Christopher (born 1803) and that age on the headstone is not accurate? I wrote to a few people to ask to clarify why there were two Christopher’s being the son of Christopher & Eleanor but only got one reply with ‘I’ve taken the information from other trees’.
Appreciate thoughts:
Thanks
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‘I’ve taken the information from other trees’.
That is probably your answer - one person posted it and everyone else just copied it! Could the Christopher born 1803 be with his grandparents in the 1841 census, and because there are no relationships there, someone has assumed it is their son?
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Hi
Did you see this baptism on DRO ~
St Laurence, Pittington
27 Nov 1803
Christopher Todd of Shadforth b. 22 Oct. 2nd child, 1st son of Robert Todd (mason)
by Isabella Apedale (daughter of Anthony Apedale a shoemaker of Bishop Auckland)
Gadget
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That's a good find Gadget - so he was Christopher and Eleanor's grandson, not their son.
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Looks like it.
Looking for a baptism for Eleanor Hart at the moment to check her age.
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Thanks
I haven't attempted to try the 1841 census yet, though one tree does have Christopher aged 35 living in Chelsea with a Isabella Todd (aged 17) in Chelsea. Isabella being the sister apparently, but I need to check further.
Another tree has the same Christopher living in Durham with a Dorothy. Though this Christopher is aged 55.
Another two trees has this Christopher death in 1856. But I can't help but think that I should take what is on the headstone being the prove where it says 'son & brother' of above. Son of Robert and brother to the three females.
I've just though had another look at the headstone - I'm doubting the year is 1850, I think now it says 1856 and I can't find a death for a Christopher in 1850.
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Looks like it.
Looking for a baptism for Eleanor Hart at the moment to check her age.
Hi
I think I found Eleanor's baptism yesterday to be in 1752 to a William Hart & Elizabeth Vint - though not sure:
Birth 25 MAY 1752 • Kirk Merrington,Durham,England
This is on FamilySearch - can't find it on DRO or FreeReg.
Name
Eleanor Hart
Gender
Female
Christening Date
25 May 1752
Christening Place
KIRK MERRINGTON,DURHAM,ENGLAND
Father's Name
William Hart
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Hi
Did you see this baptism on DRO ~
St Laurence, Pittington
27 Nov 1803
Christopher Todd of Shadforth b. 22 Oct. 2nd child, 1st son of Robert Todd (mason)
by Isabella Apedale (daughter of Anthony Apedale a shoemaker of Bishop Auckland)
Gadget
Yes I also found that yesterday on England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 though the surname of Isabella says 'Akedale'
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RE Eleanor Hart bapt - That would fit with the naming of her first daughter.
I think I'd take the trees with a pinch of salt.
I've found a possible Christopher in Darlington in 1841 but not sure. Married to a Mathilda.
Sorry, I'm having probs with small keyboard and low light. Think I'll stop for tonight :-\
Re the baptism of Christopher - DRO would be the most accurate.
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What were the names of the sisters on the headstone?
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all good thanks.
George's baptism is 1796 so I would suspect that would be her last child if the baptism is correct for her in 1752 - would make her 44.
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Hi
Christopher Todd born 1782 and Robert Todd b 1780 seem to have both married daughters of Anthony Apedaile - Christopher to Ann and Robert to Isabella. (both marriages in Auckland St Andrew in 1800).
If the Christopher Todd who died in 1847 did so in Byers Green he left a will. If the Robert Todd is the one who died in Willington there is an administration bond for him. Both can be accessed on the North East Inheritance Database..
William
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Both can be accessed on the North East Inheritance Database..
William
Hi Thanks, am looking at the will of Christopher Todd now - throughs out a few more questions than it answers...he mention's his wife Dorothy (probably why I find a Christopher Todd living with a Dorothy in 1841). Also some children in the will that isn't in any of the trees' I found for Christopher & Ann.
More work to figure this out...
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You might also find it useful, if you have not already done so, to use the Bishop of Durham's Transcripts on Familysearch. At present there are only 127 images for Auckland St Andrew if you access from search records. However you can access them right up to 1851 if you find them using their catalogue: type Auckland St Andrew in the search box, click on church records and then from the list given click on Bishop's Transcripts. Scroll down until you see a camera symbol, click on it and you then have access to over 1,000 images for the parish. It is a bit fiddly but would enable you to see what a lot of the transcribers elsewhere have been transcribing from.
William
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Just a thought might Christopher have remarried? There is a marriage for a Christopher Todd Jul- Sep 1840 in Auckland - one of the possible spouses is Dorothy Black.
William
Added: the Durham County Council Civil Registration Indexes give the names of spouses in their marriage indexes. A Christopher Todd did marry Dorothy Black in 1840.
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The Christopher who died in 1848, buried Auckland, was aged 64 - so born circa 1784. (Added - GRO has him as 66)
Also, the Christopher in Chelsea in 1851 gives his birthplace as Brompton, Middlesex.
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Just looked at the gravestone on Findagrave - it does look more like 1850 to me but I can also see that it could be 1856!
From the new gro indexes there is no death for a Christopher Todd in 1850 but there is one in 1856...and it is in St Luke Chelsea in the Jan - Mar quarter and his age at death was 52. This Christopher Todd also left a will - it is in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills which you can access on Ancestry. There are lots of references to co Durham in it - including "my brother Robert of Willington in co Durham". He also refers to his mother Isabella Todd. I think this is your man!
Just to add there is a George Todd living in Chelsea in 1851 - born co Durham 1820 with wife Mary and children Christopher and Ann ( Think this could be the George who is named as son in the 1847 will of Christopher Todd, Byers Green- he was baptized in Auckland St Andrew in 1820).
William
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I've been doing the same and have played with it in Photoshop. It says that he was buried in Brompton Cemetery in London. Aged 52 in 1850 :-\
I'll see if I can put it up but if I make it small enough, I'll lose the clarity.
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Here it is
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If it was Jan 1856 not 1850 and he was 52, then it would be the son of Robert adn Isabella. They must have got the date wrong.
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The will was proved 16 Feb 1856 and is pretty detailed - I have only read it quickly but I think there is sufficient detail to conclude that he was the son of Robert and Isabella. Isabella is recorded living in Hurworth on the 1851 census - she left a will (probate calendar 1860 - the executors are also named in Christopher's will).
William
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I've checked the London Met Archves but don't see a burial for him - odd as I left the search criteria very broad - not even mentioning Christopher ::)
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Now why would he and Margaret say that they were born Brompton and Denham, Bucks, resp., on the 1851. ???
Will has the properties as 33-34 Oxford St but living in College Street, Chelsea in 1851 and dying there in 1856 - have I got the correct pair ' HO107/1473/300/51
I'm sure it is them.
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Thanks Gadget & Millmoor
In the 1841 census he is living with two females Isabella Todd age 17 and Elizabeth Phillips aged 7.
According to a 'tree', they are his nieces.
Elizabeth, I'm not sure which sister she would be the daughter of though. I did a search on FreeReg but there are 86 between 1832 & 1835 and none in Durham. Though it's possible it's the eldest sister Elizabeth - there is a marriage to a Thomas Phillips and an Elizabeth Todd in 1833 but in Middlesex but I'm not sure as the marriage says she was 21 (born 1812) but Elizabeth was born in 1802. Though Elizabeth Phillips is living with her mother in 1851.
Isabella got married to a Christopher Surrey in 1843 and her father is showing as Robert (the full marriage is on ancestry). Christopher Surrey is mentioned in the will.
I was also going to go looking for a will for Christopher so thanks for finding that, am looking at that now.
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If I can jump in maybe a little late and haven't read everything, but! This mob are my relies and there is no correct tree up because I have not published it.
Two Christopher Todd's born in the 1750's had everyone stumped they are cousins and almost lived in one another laps to make it worse. Oh yes they sort of named their kids the same too, so that gets very confusing.
If you want better details pm me and I can then go over what I have in emails. By the way there are quite a few others on here that have the same line as you.
Neil
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Neil
PM sent
Thanks
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I have only one son born to Christopher Todd 1757 and Eleanor Hart that is Robert Born 1780. He went on to marry Isabel Apedaile the sister of My line Ann Apedaile who married Christopher Todd 1782-1847.
I was very thorough with my direct line but am sketchy with the associated families.
These families are all closely related and as I stated earlier they lived if not in the same house, close by.
The line I have traced back via University records of the Bishops early writings to 1268 ad where Robertus (Robert) and Guilielmus (William) Todd were employed to cut woods at "The Biers" (BYERS)
From what I can gather they were allotted a fair amount of land there and went on to Mine Limestone and supply masonry.
May you have a happy Christmas.
Cheers :)
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Here it is
Hi
I thinking that the headstone is incorrect - as Christopher's will is signed on the 28th January 1856 and was 'proved' on the 16th February 1856. There is only one death in 1856 for a Christopher and that is in the March quarter. Maybe who ever did the headstone wasn't aware of the actual date of death.
In the will he mentions:
His mother 'Isabella'
His sister 'Margaret' - (executor)
Thomas Wilkie of Durham the son of Thomas Wilkie (his sister Ann married Thomas Wilkie')
Ann Wilkie
Christopher Surrey (his sister Isabella married Christopher)
His Brother Robert
Elizabeth Halliday Widow (assuming his eldest sister?)
There is also another name that I can't work out - widow of William? I think it looks like 'Jane'.
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I think that's what William and I were discussing - wrong daste on the headstone and then the date of the will. See the posts before and after the image :)
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Has anyone actually seen the headstone or just photos? Could it be that the 6 has weathered to look like a 0?
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I have only one son born to Christopher Todd 1757 and Eleanor Hart that is Robert Born 1780. He went on to marry Isabel Apedaile the sister of My line Ann Apedaile who married Christopher Todd 1782-1847.
Thanks but am a little confused , are you saying that Christopher (1782) is not the son of Christopher & Eleanor or have I misunderstood?
I have see the baptism for their son George Todd (my connection) which says his parents are Christopher & Eleanor so they did have more than one son as well as another 4.
Thanks
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I think that's what William and I were discussing - wrong daste on the headstone and then the date of the will. See the posts before and after the image :)
Thanks, I only just got to reading the will in full detail this morning..
I still think it looks like a 6 but the actual date can't be correct (13th January) when he signed the will on the 28th January.
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Has anyone actually seen the headstone or just photos? Could it be that the 6 has weathered to look like a 0?
It could also be that the stonemason misread the information given. This happened on one of my 4 x grandparents gravestone.
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Brompton Cemetery burials are at www.deceasedonline.com.
Christopher Todd, buried 7 Feb 1856. Grave details are pay per view.
Merry Xmas.
Alan.
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Christopher Todd, buried 7 Feb 1856. Grave details are pay per view.
Thanks Alan - just want I needed
Merry Christmas
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Hi all,
the following may be of help to some of you.
Christopher TODD and Eleanor HART
Husband: Christopher TODD (1757-1827) Bap 15th May 1757, Auckland St. Andrew, Durham, England
Wife: Eleanor HART (1752- )
Children: Elizabeth HART (1778-1853)
Robert TODD (1780-1837)
Christopher TODD (1782-1847)
Eleanor TODD (c. 1784-1848)
Mary TODD (1787- )
William TODD (1789- )
Ann TODD (1791- ) married Henry Crosby
Joseph TODD (1793-1797)
George TODD (1796-1872)
Marriage 25 Jul 1779 Auckland St Andrew, Durham, England
Husband: Christopher TODD
Name: Christopher TODD
Father: Robert TODD (1743-1802)
Mother: Mary Allison (1739-1791)
Birth 15 May 1757 Byers Green, Durham, England4
Baptism 15 May 1757 Auckland Saint Andrew, Durham, England3
Death 11 Feb 1827 (age 69) Nutty Hagg, Byers Green, Durham, England4
Burial 11 Feb 1827 Auckland-St. Andrew, Durham, England4
Wife: Eleanor HART
Name: Eleanor HART
Sex: Female
Father: William HART (1710- ) marriage 22 Sep 1747 Kirk Merrington, Durham, England. FHL film No 91097 &94097
Mother: Eliz. VINT (1715-1777)
Birth 25 May 1752 Kirk Merrington, Durham, England
Baptism 25 May 1752 (age 0) Kirk Merrington, Durham, England
Child 1: Elizabeth HART
Name: Elizabeth HART
Spouse: Stephen GREEN (1784-1860)
Birth May 1778 Byers Green, Durham, England
Baptism 24 May 1778 (age 0) St Andrew Church, Bishop Auckland, Durham, England
Baptisms, Auckland District - Record Number: 613314.0 Location: Whitworth Church: Whitworth Parish Church
Denomination: Anglican 24 May 1778 Elizabeth Hart of Byers Green, spurious daughter of Eleanor Hart
Death 9 Jul 1853 (age 75) Monkwearmouth, Durham, England
Child 2: Robert TODD
Name: Robert TODD
Sex: Male
Spouse: Isabella APEDALE (1783-1860)
Birth 7 Apr 1780 Bishop Auckland, Durham, England
Baptism 7 Apr 1780 (age 0) Auckland Saint Andrew, Durham, England
Death 29 Dec 1837 (age 57) Bishop Auckland, Durham, England
Residence 1841 (age 60-61) St Andrew Auckland, Durham, England
Burial Durham, Durham Unitary Authority, County Durham, England
Child 3: Christopher TODD
Name: Christopher TODD
Spouse 1: Ann APEDALE (1780-1838)
Spouse 2: Dorothy TOULSON (c. 1796- )
Birth 4 Aug 1782 Nutty Hagg, Byers Green, Durham, England
Residence 1841 (age 58-59) St Andrew Auckland, Durham, England
Death 15 Mar 1847 (age 64) Auckland St. Andrews, Byers Green, Durham, England
Child 4: Eleanor TODD
Name: Eleanor TODD
Sex: Female
Spouse: Joseph MARLEY
Birth c. 1784 Nutty Hagg, Byers Green, Durham, England
Death Jan 1848 (age 63-64) Weardale, Durham, England
Child 5: Mary TODD
Name: Mary TODD
Birth Feb 1787 Nutty Hagg, Byers Green, Durham, England
Baptisms, Auckland District - Record Number: 613404.0 Location: Whitworth Church: Whitworth Parish Church
Denomination: Anglican 25 Feb 1787 Mary Todd of Nutty-hag, daughter of Christopher & Eleanor Todd
Child 6: William TODD
Birth May 1789 Nutty Hagg, Newfield, Byers Green, Durham England. Died 1859 NSW
Baptisms, Auckland District - Record Number: 613428.0 Location: Whitworth Church: Whitworth Parish Church
Denomination: Anglican 31 May 1789 William Todd of Nutty Hag, son of Christopher & Eleanor Todd
Child 7: Ann TODD
Birth Jan 1791 Nutty Hagg, Newfield, Durham, England
Baptisms, Auckland District - Record Number: 613448.0 Location: Whitworth Church: Whitworth Parish Church
Denomination: Anglican 27 Jan 1791 Ann Todd of Nutty-hag, daughter of Christopher & Eleanor Todd
Child 8: Joseph TODD
Name: Joseph TODD
Birth Jul 1793 Auckland St. Andrews, Nutty Hagg, Byers Green, Durham,
England
Baptisms, Auckland District - Record Number: 777216.0 Location: Auckland Church: St. Andrew Denomination:
Anglican 28 Jul 1793 Joseph Todd of Nutty Hagg, son of Christopher Todd
Baptism 28 Jul 1793 Auckland Saint Andrew, Durham, England
Death 16 Apr 1797 age 3 Auckland St. Andrews, Nutty Hagg, Byers Green, Durham,
England
Child 9: George TODD
George TODD
1st marriage: 2nd Dec 1815, Bishop-Wearmouth, Durham. Item 1 p129 Ann BEECROFT b.1791 d. 1825 burial 28th July, Chelsea, London Baptism date 30 Jan 1791.Place: Witton Gilbert, county Durham. Father Matthew Beecroft, mother Margaret. Children of George and Ann: John Todd b.1817 Sunderland, Durham d.1897, Mary Ann Todd 1820 Bap. 15 Oct 1820, FHL Film No 585471,585472. George Todd birth and Bap. 23rd July 1825 burial 4th Aug 9 days old buried with his mother.
2nd Marriage: Phoebe ROGERS (1792-c.Tooting London d. 1869 Wandsworth, Surrey
Marriage 13th January 1826.
Children: Eleanor, Phoebe, Christopher William, George sometimes referred to as George Jr. or the younger, Thomas Osborn, Henry.