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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: NZfitzy on Friday 16 December 16 03:15 GMT (UK)

Title: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: NZfitzy on Friday 16 December 16 03:15 GMT (UK)
Can someone help me locate the birth certificate of my GGrandfather Francis McHugh Reid. He was supposedly born 1867/8 Napier NZ to David Glen Reid and Rose Gray. They arrived in NZ on the Belgravia in 1865. David was married to an Anne Robertson in Derry  prior to his marriage to Rose Gray and had a daughter Johanna by Anne Robertson. I can find no trace of the  birth  of Francis on the BDM site although some of their other children Rose 1869,Henrietta 1872, and Florence 1876 are all there. He married Margaret Kennedy in Feb 1898 and their first son Douglas Glen is born 18/10/1898 Pahiatua. The birth cert  for Doug states he is 30 and born in Napier. The McHugh in his name I felt was a bit odd then I discovered David's first daughter Johanna married a Bernard Francis McHugh in 1868 in Napier before leaving for Australia. Could he be their son but has been passed off as her Fathers? No record anywhere. Does anyone have any ideas where I could look next?
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: minniehaha on Friday 16 December 16 04:02 GMT (UK)
A McHugh - Reid marriage (1868).......

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/HBH18680201.2.7?query=francis%20mchugh%20reid

Is this the marriage referred to above?

Minniehaha.



Minniehaha.
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: NZfitzy on Friday 16 December 16 04:21 GMT (UK)
That's the wedding of Johanna Reid daughter of David Glen Reid and Anne Robertson. It's not my GGrandfathers wedding. He married Margaret Kennedy.
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: Janette on Friday 16 December 16 05:24 GMT (UK)
Hi

Where and when did David marry Rose?I don't see Rose on the passenger list

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: minniehaha on Friday 16 December 16 05:31 GMT (UK)
Death.......

1940/26789   Reid   Francis McHugh   75Y

Birth year nearer 1865?

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: minniehaha on Friday 16 December 16 05:36 GMT (UK)
Passenger list (including Rose)...........

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZ18650511.2.3?query=rose%20belgravia


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: minniehaha on Friday 16 December 16 06:22 GMT (UK)
Death notice.

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19400916.2.2.4?query=francis%20mchugh

Burial Waikumete Cemetery.

REID, FRANCIS MCHUGH

  Plot :                                  ANGLICAN DIVISION H Row 10, Plot 55

  Interment Type:              Burial

  Title:                                  MR

  Surname :                        REID

  Given Names:                 FRANCIS MCHUGH

  Age :                                  75

  Gender :                            Male

  Occupation:                     LABOURER

  Date Of Death :                14-Sep-1940

  Date Of Cremation :       N/A

  Date Of Burial :                16-Sep-1940   

  Funeral Director :           A W GOOD

  Head Stone Details :      Y

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: minniehaha on Friday 16 December 16 06:38 GMT (UK)
Bernard McHugh included in the Belgravia passenger list above............


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: NZfitzy on Friday 16 December 16 07:03 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all your help with this. I think that the Bernard McHugh on the Belgravia is the man who marries Johanna Reid in 1868 in Napier. Perhaps they knew one another in Londonderry before coming to NZ not sure. As to when did David Glen Reid and Rose Gray marry that was on 13 Nov 1855 in Templemore Derry. I know they  had a daughter Mary in Derry in 1864. I saw a list of Reids on the Belgravia and I saw a Glen Reid and I wondered if that was Rose as she did not seem to be mentioned on the passenger list. It is a mystery of when and where Francis McHugh Reid was born and to who I feel.
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: minniehaha on Friday 16 December 16 07:14 GMT (UK)
See reply #5.....

Here Rose is mentioned in the passenger list along with David G. and the rest of the REID family.  :)


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: minniehaha on Friday 16 December 16 20:03 GMT (UK)
Some newspaper items about David G. & Rose.......

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP18750603.2.13?query=david%20g.%20reid

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP18750622.2.12.6?query=david%20g.%20reid

Funeral notice of David Glen Reid.

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP18840612.2.35.3?query=david%20glen%20reid

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: NZfitzy on Friday 16 December 16 20:33 GMT (UK)
Very interesting especially the court case. Looks like they may split for very good reasons. That newspaper article listing the passengers on the Belgravia listed a lot of Reids with David Glen Reid. Would they have all been his family do you think or just all Reid passengers. Could Francis have been born on the ship perhaps.Is there a record of births on ships do you know.?
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 16 December 16 20:58 GMT (UK)
Hi

I looked earlier through a number of records for evidence of the birth of the child Francis McHugh REID ... to no avail I'm afraid.

In a report of the voyage in 1865 of the "Belgravia", it was mentioned that there had been one death (of an infant), ... and one birth (no surname given). 

Unfortunately, Archives New Zealand don't appear to have a copy of the passenger manifest / or a list of the immigrants aboard the 1865 voyage of the "Belgravia" which might have offered much more detail.   [The only "passenger list" available appears to be that sourced from the newspaper. ]

*   Is the death at Wellington in December 1885 is for your Rose REID ??
[Rose G. REID - aged 47 years - died or buried 10 December 1885 - Bolton Street Cemetery ]

*  Do you have the Death records (preferably "printouts" - images of registry entries) for David Glen REID and Rose REID ??

   ~ Lu



Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: NZfitzy on Friday 16 December 16 21:39 GMT (UK)
Yes that is my David Glen Reid  died 1884 and Rose Reid died 1885 In Wellington and I do have copies of death Certs for both. Yes I also cannot find Francis Reid. There is a mystery here.
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 16 December 16 21:55 GMT (UK)
Hi

Okay, do those death certs give the "ages of their issue"  (that is, the ages of their living children) ?

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: SignalHill on Friday 16 December 16 22:00 GMT (UK)
Bernard Francis McHUGH apparently usually known as Francis is shown in St Paul's Marriage Register as a Trooper
see Presbyterian Archives - Hawkes Bay Presbytery : St Paul's Napier
There do not appear to be any other Reids of that generation at least in the St Pauls Marriage register.

My guess is that Francis McHugh REID was the pre-marriage child of Francis McHUGH and Joanna REID given the family names of both parents and the forename of his Father.   Francis McHUGH then made an honest woman of Joanna by marrying her soon after Francis junior was born.

Where and when did they get together ? 

Further information may be available from St Pauls
"St Paul’s plans to make it’s historical records available for research and public inspection. The originals are held in the Regional Archives at the Hawkes Bay Museum and Art Gallery in Napier.
Note: at present access is not available to our records until the alterations to the Hawkes Bay Museum and Art Gallery are complete."

There may also be some record of the movements of Trooper McHUGH in the 1860s

Signal
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: NZfitzy on Friday 16 December 16 22:33 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all this everyone. Firstly the ages of the children on David Glens Cert are 3 males 26,22,17 and 5 females 24,20,12,10,7 the non Roses death cert 3 males 28,23,19 and 5 females 27,21,13,9,3. I think David's are more likely to be correct.Mind you this was David's second marriage and he bought children with him from Londonderry. His first wife Ane Robertson died in 1854 in Londonderry and he married Rose in 1855.

Yes where did Johanna and Francis Bernard MCHugh get together? Was it on the boat as they both were on the Belgravia or did they know one another in Londonderry. They married in 1868 Jan 28 in Napier and moved to Melbourne where they have a family. Like you we now think he was bought up by his grandparents. He is the spitting image of Bernard Francis McHugh as I have seen a picture of him on Ancestory on a tree in Australia but of course my Francis is not mentioned in that tree. Maybe those St Paul Records may show up something when they become available or his military records as you say. He was actually born in Warrington.
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: minniehaha on Friday 16 December 16 23:38 GMT (UK)
Further to reply #12 and the birth which occurred on the voyage of the Belgravia....

I'm only guessing but this may have been the 'infant' referred to. See 4th & 5th lines of newspaper report listing passengers (at reply #5):

"Charles Dunkley and infant".....

Just a thought, but a possible reason for not finding the birth for Francis is that it was never registered. It appears that his birth year was actually around 1865. Rose was possibly pregnant on the voyage and gave birth perhaps not long after arrival here. With a large family to cope with, registration may have been the last thing on the minds of the parents.

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 17 December 16 01:15 GMT (UK)

In a report of the voyage in 1865 of the "Belgravia", it was mentioned that there had been one death (of an infant), ... and one birth (no surname given). 


... and further (again) to my reply # 12 .... can now confirm the birth and death aboard the "Belgravia" (London to New Zealand - 1865).

Death (at Sea)

Thomas LIPPETT - aged 18 months -died 10.2.1865 of pneumonia.
[He would appear to have been the son of the couple named as Edward and Emily LIPRATH [sic] on the passenger list, (travelling with Wm., Thomas and George).

Birth (at Sea)

SHORT - female (no christian name given)
born on 28.3.1865

Parents:   John and Hannah*
[*  A  John and Harriet SHORT appear on the passenger list. ]

Note:  Have not followed up further on the above as the purpose of my search was only to determine if there was a registration for a "Birth at Sea" for the child Francis REID.

    ~  Lu
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: minniehaha on Saturday 17 December 16 01:21 GMT (UK)
Funeral notice for Rose.........

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP18851211.2.33.3?query=r.%20reid


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: Birth lookup for Francis MCHugh Reid
Post by: NZfitzy on Saturday 17 December 16 01:47 GMT (UK)
That rules out any ship births thanks. I am now inclined to think as was suggested previously he has just not been registered at all.