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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: robinislander on Sunday 11 December 16 19:20 GMT (UK)
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Hello
I am trying to find a mystery woman! According to free BMD Frederick William Paine married Violet Rachel Baron in the Kingston Upon Thames District September Qtr 1908, and yes according to the census for 1911 she is listed at 24 London Road with the marriage has lasted two years. Her age is given as (about) 35 could be 55 and her place of birth as Wigan Lancs though part of this could have been crossed through.
I can find no mention of any Violet Baron in Wigan or any death of Violet Paine to confirm her age.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks
PS It is said the marriage was not a happy one!
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Her age is given as (about) 35 could be 55
If she was 33 or 53 when she married, the chances are that it could be a second marriage and therefore she wouldn't be born as Violet Baron.
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I read her age as 35. There is a Rachel BARON born Wigan 1875 who would fit. Maybe she added the 'Violet' later?
It might pay you to access the 1939 Register for a Rachel PAINE in Wigan (FindMyPast). We can't do lookups in that resource.
As regards her death, if she was the Rachel BARON born as above, she might have remarried as Rachel PAINE in Portsmouth in March Quarter 1948, to Stanley William McAllister BAXTER. This Rachel BAXTER died 7 December 1960 in Portsmouth (from the probate calendar), aged 85. That would fit the 1875 birth of Rachel BARON in Wigan.
But it's a long shot, and it's all speculation without the 1908 marriage certificate. That should give you her father's name, which in turn should help locate her in a census before she married Frederick W. PAINE.
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Agree age is "about 35"
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according to the census for 1911 she is listed at 24 London Road
Probate Calendar
PAINE Frederick William of 24 London-road Kingston-upon-Thames died 20 March 1945 Probate Llandudno 15 September to National Provincial Bank Limited and Ida Kate Moatt married woman. Effects £152630 19s. 1d.
Death
Mar Qtr 1945
PAINE Frederick W age 74
Surrey North East 2a 52
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Ida Kate Moatt was Ida Kate PAINE
She married Charles Ashley Moatt in 1909 in Farnham and they had a son in 1910
Moatt, Charles Montague James mmn PAINE
1910 J Quarter
Fulham
Volume 01A Page 177
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Ida Kate Moatt is nee Paine, b 1883, so presumably related to Frederick
Snap - by the way the marriage is in Fareham not Farnham
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Her death?
Ida Kate A Moatt
Birth Date: 7 Jul 1884
Death: Jun 1969
Age at Death: 84
Yeovil Somerset
Volume: 7c
Page: 1628
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Ida Kate Paine
Birth Date: 8 Jul 1883
Baptism : 30 May 1886
Parish: Cheam Common, St Philip, Surrey, England
Father: Charles James Paine
Mother: Mary Ann Paine
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She was Frederick's sister
1891 New Malden, Surrey
RG12; Piece: 609; Folio: 5; Page: 4
Big family!
Charles J Paine 43 Furniture Dealer
Mary A Paine 39
Fred W Paine 21
Bryan C L Paine 18
Eliza M Paine 17
Mabel S Paine 14
Patrick H Paine 12
Martin M Paine 9
Ida K Paine 7
Charles P M Paine 5
William E Paine 3
Dennis F Paine 1
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Thank you everyone. I think that Bookbox may be right. Though why she has the added name of Violet escapes me. I think I will order the marriage certificate to be sure.
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She was Frederick's sister
1891 New Malden, Surrey
RG12; Piece: 609; Folio: 5; Page: 4
Big family!
Charles J Paine 43 Furniture Dealer
Mary A Paine 39
Fred W Paine 21
Bryan C L Paine 18
Eliza M Paine 17
Mabel S Paine 14
Patrick H Paine 12
Martin M Paine 9
Ida K Paine 7
Charles P M Paine 5
William E Paine 3
Dennis F Paine 1
For info.
Frederick William Paine Bpt. 6 Aug 1871 Norbiton, St Peter
Charles James Paine occ carpenter
Mary Ann Paine
A snippet from this link
http://www.kingstononline.co.uk/kingstons-history-frederick-paine-funeral-directors/
Frederick William Paine was born 4 April 1870 on Burritt Road in Norbiton.
As the eldest of 11 children he took over the family business of house furnishers, estate agents an funeral directors at the age of 24 and developed their funeral service………….
Using the above dob +/-1 free search 1939 Register
shows a Frederick W PAIN b1871 Kingston-upon Thames
click preview and it shows
Charles A Moatt 1884 and 3 more people are on this record
you will need credits to view the original
https://billiongraves.com/grave/Frederick-William-Paine/3441268#/
Surname PAINE
Charles James
Mary Ann
Gladys Ethel
Cecil George
Bryan Charles Sargent
Bottom inscription reads
In affectionate rememberance of Frederick William Paine
“undertaker of this town”
who passed away suddenly March 20th 1945 in his 75th Year
New GRO search shows following
BARON Rachel mmn HAMPSON
1875 S Qtr, Wigan Volume 08C Page 117
You can also search birth & marriages on Lancashire BMD
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
and on
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
26 Dec 1875 St John the Divine, Pemberton, Lancashire
Rachel Baron born 15 Sep 1875 dau of James Baron occ collier & Ellen Abode: Newtown Pemberton
James & Ellen's 1872 marriage details can be found on Lancashire OPC
Hopefully her marriage certificate will confirm if the above is correct Rachel
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family business of house furnishers, estate agents and funeral directors
What a strange combination of jobs. Although I suppose he could have buried someone, cleared their house and sold the furniture and then sold the house - perhaps not so odd after all! ;)
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26 Dec 1875 St John the Divine, Pemberton, Lancashire
Rachel Baron born 15 Sep 1875...
Hopefully her marriage certificate will confirm if the above is correct Rachel
But first you may want to look at the 1939 Register for Rachel Paine in Wigan, as already recommended above, because now you can compare the date of birth given there with the date of birth that has been found by Ladyhawk for Rachel Baron.
ADDED - I did say it was a long shot :(