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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: MercianSte on Thursday 01 December 16 14:10 GMT (UK)
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I have just received a birth record from the GRO but it has completely baffled me! I just cannot seem to find the parents of the child anywhere, no marriage index, census records, nothing!
The child in question was called Charles Cato, the son of Charles Cato and Elizabeth Cato late Wakley formerly Simpson. He was born on the 25 January 1874 at Fleet Street, Burton upon Trent, Staffordshire. Charles Snr was a Railway Labourer and Elizabeth could sign her own name, so I guess Cato would be the correct spelling of the name.
I just cannot find a marriage between Charles and Elizabeth, or between an Elizabeth Simpson and Mr. Wakley on the GRO index's. Neither can I find Charles Snr & Jnr or Elizabeth on the 1881 Census.
Does anybody have any idea where I could look next?
MercianSte
Edit: Sorry, I should also have mentioned that I was hoping that Charles Cato was in fact my ellusive ancestor Charles Simpson who was born around this time in Burton. I guess there is still a slight chance that he might be in there is no marriage between Charles and Elizabeth.
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Freebmd
Charles Simpson registered March Quarter 1874 Burton ref 6b 384.
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Freebmd
Charles Simpson registered March Quarter 1874 Burton ref 6b 384.
Based on GRO birth index the mother's maiden name is listed as Smith
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Thank you for your reply's.
It is not actually a birth for Charles Simpson I am looking for as I have searched for this until I am blue in the face. The entry outlined above is for the son of Sampson and Sarah Simpson whereas my Charles states that he was illegitimate on his marriage certificate. Also the Charles from the Birth registration was born Willington and can be found living at Mickleover on the 1901 census whereas my Charles was living at Stapenhill on the same census.
I am actually after information in regards to Charles Cato. The more I look into this the more I am starting to believe that he may well be my Charles Simpson. I have been unable to find a marriage between Charles Cato and Elizabeth Wakley nor a marriage between Elizabeth Simpson and a Mr Wakley so I am beginning to think that Elizabeth was not actually married to either and reverted back to her maiden name after her relationship with Charles Snr broke down. Of course if a marriage could be found for either the Cato-Wakley or Wakley-Simpson relationship's then this theory will break down and I can disregard the record.
After spending the whole of yesterday evening on this if anybody is up for a challenge I could do with an extra pair of eyes to see if they can find the following;
- Marriage of Charles Cato Snr and Elizabeth Wakley (No other Cato births with MMN Simpson on the GRO Index within a 5 year period)
- Marriage of Elizabeth Simpson to a Mr. Wakley
- On the 1871 Census their is an Elizabeth Wakley living on High Street, Aldershot, Hampshire. She is aged 30 years, a Stay Maker and was born Oxford Street, Middlesex. Can anybody find her on any other census?
These are the main three at the moment. The reason why I have taken an interested in the Elizabeth living at Aldershot is because I have long believed that Charles' mother was the Elizabeth Simpson who married John Abberley in Burton-upon-Trent. She was born around 1840 on Oxford Street, London and was a Stay Maker on the 1861 Census, I am sure you can see why I am started to get a bit exited about this one! (There is a Charles Abberley born circa 1874 on the 1881 census living with John & Elizabeth and it certainly looks like he was not John's child).
Thanks,
MercianSte
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This conundrum has had been scratching my head since yesterday and looking at previous posts on the Simpsons. I would agree that Charles Abberley in 1881 was unlikely to be the son of John Abberley whose first wife Dorothea died and their son John French was born in 1874 the same year Charles Abberley was born
Not that it helps much but I did wonder if Elizabeth Wakley living in Aldershot in 1871 and listed as married was the wife/partner of a soldier as many of the wives lodging in the town were?? I noticed a William Wakeley b 1833 Lincoln in 1871. A soldier in the barracks at Aldershot and although listed as unmarried this might indicate their legal status. At the moment I can't see him in another census or a marriage :-\
Kay
Edit - I don't suppose that the birth cert lists the number of the property in Fleet St where Charles was born?
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I can't offer much at present, but can see why you are excited about Elizabeth Wakley the stay maker.
Presumably you have seen 11 yr old Elizabeth Simpson at 127 Oxford St in 1851, one of the daughters of Elizabeth Simpson, 45 b Northamptonshire, stay maker. HO107/1487/413/32.
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Baptisms, St James Piccadilly, Westminster
16 Sep 1832: Emma Simpson, born Aug 6th 1832.
16 Aug 1840: Elizabeth Simpson, born Dec 26th 1839.
Both daughters of Thomas (watchmaker) and Elizabeth, of Oxford St.
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This conundrum has had been scratching my head since yesterday and looking at previous posts on the Simpsons. I would agree that Charles Abberley in 1881 was unlikely to be the son of John Abberley whose first wife Dorothea died and their son John French was born in 1874 the same year Charles Abberley was born
Not that it helps much but I did wonder if Elizabeth Wakley living in Aldershot in 1871 and listed as married was the wife/partner of a soldier as many of the wives lodging in the town were?? I noticed a William Wakeley b 1833 Lincoln in 1871. A soldier in the barracks at Aldershot and although listed as unmarried this might indicate their legal status. At the moment I can't see him in another census or a marriage :-\
Kay
Edit - I don't suppose that the birth cert lists the number of the property in Fleet St where Charles was born?
Hi Kay,
Thank you for your reply.
I did not realise that there was a John Ffrench Abberley! The only thing that was holding me back putting Elizabeth Simpson as Charles' mother was there was always the chance that Dorothea could have died giving birth to Charles Abberley and for whatever reason his birth was not registered. Well, now I know that Dorothea probably died giving birth to, or shortly after, John's birth - So it looks like Charles has to be a Simpson!
I did think that Elizabeth Wakley could well have been the wife of a soldier, there does seem to be quite a few around the area. I did also find William Wakley's army records and did wonder if it was him as he was discharged in 1872 at Aldershot, but like you I have not been able to find a marriage. I have not yet had a look for William on any census.
I have had a look at the certificate and it does just say Fleet Street.
MercianSte
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I can't offer much at present, but can see why you are excited about Elizabeth Wakley the stay maker.
Presumably you have seen 11 yr old Elizabeth Simpson at 127 Oxford St in 1851, one of the daughters of Elizabeth Simpson, 45 b Northamptonshire, stay maker. HO107/1487/413/32.
The Avm228,
Thank you for finding the information about Elizabeth. Her mother was a Stay Maker original from Byfield in Northamptonshire. On the 1871 census both of her daughter's are also Stay Makers. Thank you for pointing out that their was a birth date of Elizabeth's baptism, I had the date but for some reason not the birth date in my records.
MercianSte
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I am just putting the following information here so that I have somewhere online to keep my notes (I have a habit of loosing them if I keep them in writing or save them on a computer!).
William Wakley
The William Wakley shown on the census as being in the barracks at Aldershot is down as being born at Lincoln around 1833. However, his army records state he was born at Leicester in 1832, and was discharged from Aldershot in January 1872. The records also state that he intended to become a Tailor in Leicester after his discharge. There is a death in the December Quarter 1872 for a William Wakely (note the slightly different spelling) at Leicester, aged 40 years (1832 again). If Elizabeth was living as William's wife then she has just moved a lot closer to Burton and William's death would explain why there relationship ended.
Charles Cato
I have narrowed down Charles Cato to two likely individuals. One was living on the 1871 Census in London with his parents and was down as a Coachman aged 33 years (born 1838). This Charles is still in London on the 1881, now living with his "wife" Sarah and I presume his step son William (aged 17). Charles is still a Cab Driver, and I can find no record of his marriage to Sarah between the census's.
The second Charles is living on the 1881 Census in Ealing, London with his "wife" Mary. Charles is 48 years old (born 1833) and born Tring, Hertfordshire. Charles describes himself as a Labourer, by the 1901 census he starts calling himself a Navvy which I believe meant Railway Labourer by the late 19th century (this fits perfectly with the Birth Certificate that started off my search). Once again, I can find no record of his marriage to Mary, but Mary is down as being born in Kegworth, Leicestershire on the 1881 census, this points to the possibility that Charles may have travelled to the East Midlands (in particular Leicester) at some point in his life. Also, interesting to note is that I believe this Charles was in the Army up until the early 1870's, so perhaps there was some sort of connection between Charles Cato and William Wakley (even though they served in different regiments).
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Sorry, duplicate post