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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Gillum on Friday 25 November 16 20:01 GMT (UK)
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Hiya ll
My problems starts with a family Axon. I know that John Axon bachelor aged 17, married
Gladys Bickerdye Lindley spinster aged 17, Jan 18 1930 at St Thomas's Church Hyde, Cheshire.
John Axon, a Labourer, living at 2 Manor Street Audenshaw – Father Henry Axon, a Moulder.
Gladys Bickerdyke Lindley, 15 Charles Street Hyde, Cheshire- Father Joseph Findley Dec's.
John and Gladys have three children, John Joyce and Harry, details all known.
That is all I have at present. I think I have pieced together Gladys past on the Bickerdyke side, but with John Axon I have hit an absolute brick wall. All I have is family fireside rumours and handed down tales, no concrete evidence. Frustrating. I can find no trace of John Axon prior to the marriage or afterwards, some maybes, nothing concrete in censuses or BDMs.
Rumours
John Axon and a brother Harry were born in Wales? John Axon went missing Xmas day before war ended in 1944? Friends of family heard he was on an Atlantic convoy when he joined a party which went missing, a secret mission on a convoy to Zanzibar supplying ammunition to Montgomery's war in Africa??? The family state that there are medals to be awarded? Because it was a secret mission, one way ticket?? Obtained from Archives, BT382CRS1..Docket Books..Record of Seamen Records BT390??
The above all sounds very dramatic though stranger things etc! I'm told I cannot access the above records on line. Can anyone access the Archive down south as a look up?
OK - any clues as to how I proceed would be much appreciated.
The Axon family are I think loosely related to mine through an unofficial liaison on the Bickerdyke side, complicated, no payment to me is involved. Expenses no problem.
Thanks everyone for looking & reading
Gillum
???
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Hi
This could possibly be him, the date of birth tallies with a record in 1939, possibly born JFM 1912 Ashton John Axon mmn Vernon
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=john+axon&_p=1925&Refine+dates=Refin
Although there is another John C Axon born that quarter.
Cathy
Added...sorry I see you probably have that info
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His military records will still be with the MOD ::)
It will cost £30 to get a copy.
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/overview
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Hi Gillum,
Have you found John and Gladys on the 1939 register to establish John's date of birth? By doing a free search there is a John Axon born 1912 living with Gladys Axon and three others, details are officially closed, Hyde M.B., Cheshire.
There is a Sarah E Axon born 1880 living at Audenshaw U.D., Lancashire, which could be worth a look.
A marriage of a Henry Axon -
q1 1902 Ashton, Vol 8d Page 680
On the same page is Sarah Elizabeth Vernon.
Birth record of a John Axon -
q2 1912 Ashton, Vol 8d Page 964
Mother's maiden name -Vernon
JJ
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In 1929, Henry Axon, a moulder is listed as living at 2 Manor Street, Audenshaw in Kellys directory
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Hi Cathy
Yes I forgot to include I've seen the 1939 census for John and Gladys, this gives Johns date of birth as 14 Mar 1912 which tallies with your third find in the National Archives. You obviously have a good touch on a keyboard I tried and found nothing! Now I know the family romours were write about him being a seaman. Thanks a lot I have a reference number to chase up.
David
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In 1929, Henry Axon, a moulder is listed as living at 2 Manor Street, Audenshaw in Kellys directory
I wonder if these are relevant - Iron Moulder and BOTH surnames are Axon and lived next door to each other
Marriage: 14 Dec 1895 St Bartholomew, Salford, Lancashire, England
John Charles Axon - 23, Pattern Card Maker, Bachelor, 28 Prescott Street
Isabella Axon - 22, Laundress, Spinster, 30 Prescott Street
Groom's Father: Samuel Axon, Iron Moulder
Bride's Father: James Axon, (deceased), Iron Moulder
so 3 Axon family members - the 2 fathers at that wedding and also Henry Axon as Iron Moulders ??
I would think they are related somehow ??
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Hi Garrard
Many thanks
Great, checked the website got the forms and details to fill in, by the look of it its going to be a long job. eg 6 months for a reply! Everyone please note I now have Johns Service number and his record reference as a Merchant Seaman, his birth date 14 Mar 1912 also.
David
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Hi Jen
Many thanks
Yes I have the 1939 census return for John and Gladys i forgot to mention as it didn't give much more detail than the marriage record, except the exact birth date, sorry. Doh I hadn't noticed that three people closed, will rectify if possible. Proving kinship might be difficult!
Will ckck out the Sarah E Axon lead.
Thanks again
David
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Hi Julie
Thanks
Did not check out all Kelleys. I had his address Audenshaw but his occupation as a moulder is potentially useful.
Thanks again
David
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Hi Jen
Looking at the Henry Axon, Sarah E Axon (Vernon) marriage 1902 and Johns birth record
could be a breakthrough for me will send of for copy certificates and let you know.
Again many thanks
Its shaping up for me folks
David
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Hi Garstonite
Thanks-Got the 1929 Kelly's tip. The marriage record John Charles Axon, and Isabell and the other Axons mentioned definitely worth a look-up, on it.
Thanks again
David
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Is this him?
John Axon
Rank: Lance Serjeant
Death Date: 29 May 1943
Number: 3525605
Birth Place: Lancashire
Residence: Lancashire
Regiment at Enlistment: Manchester Regiment RA
Branch at Enlistment: Infantry
Theatre of War: Malaya
Regiment at Death: Manchester Regiment RA
Branch at Death:Infantry
John Axon
Age: 29
Birth Date: abt 1914
Death Date:29 May 1943
Cemetery: Thanbyuzayat War Cemetery
Burial Country: Burma
Regimental Number: 3525605
Region or Memorial: Burma
This is the only one on www.cwgc.org that seems to fit.
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John Axon
Birth Date: 14 Mar 1912
Christening Date:7 Apr 1912
Christening Place:Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire, England
Christening Age: 0
Father:Henry Axon
Mother:Sarah Elizabeth
If the record isn't online, it might be on Find My Past, I can check it at Ashton Local Studies but not until the middle of next week. They are closed mondays
Heather
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Incoming passenger lists have the following, the address is relevant as Gladys and John were living there at the outbreak of war.
Date of Arrival 30th Jan 1948 Southampton from New York
John Axon 35 9, Garden Street, Newton Hyde, Cheshire SEAMAN
Gladys seems to have married again in 1968 .
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The baptism that I posted for John fits in with the Axon /Vernon marriage in 1902 at Droylsden St Mary
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Probate
John Axon of 120 Cheadle Old Road Stockport Cheshire died 9th February 1957 at the Railway Station (South) Chapel-en-le Frith, Derbyshire. Administration Manchester 2nd April to Gladys Axon, Widow. Effects £391 1s 5d.
added: this one was born 1901
John Axon
abt 1901
Mar 1957 - Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, England
It looks like this one was a fireman married to Gladys Richardson.
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I'm a little confused, If he was Merchant Navy his records won't be with the MOD. You can get a quote from the National Archives for a copy of his Seaman's pouch as given in Cath151's post.
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On the site www.ww2talk.com someone was asking about John Axon in September. The poster states that their John was born in Mellor Derbyshire. They have also been given the reference to the seaman's pouch on the National Archives site.
The marriage in 1943 is also give as John Axon to Gladys Harrop according to the GRO search engine.
Perhaps you should contact the poster to see if you could sort the mystery out together.
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I'm a little confused, If he was Merchant Navy his records won't be with the MOD. You can get a quote from the National Archives for a copy of his Seaman's pouch as given in Cath151's post.
Merchant Navy Seamen were automatically in the Royal Naval Reserve!
I have in the past applied for a Merchant Seaman's RN records.
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Probate
John Axon of 120 Cheadle Old Road Stockport Cheshire died 9th February 1957 at the Railway Station (South) Chapel-en-le Frith, Derbyshire. Administration Manchester 2nd April to Gladys Axon, Widow. Effects £391 1s 5d.
added: this one was born 1901
John Axon
abt 1901
Mar 1957 - Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, England
It looks like this one was a fireman married to Gladys Richardson.
You may already be aware of this but this particular John Axon was "Driver" John Axon awarded the George Cross for sticking with the runaway train which crashed at Chapel-en-le-Frith. The story is well documented and was featured in one of Ewan MaColl's "Radio Balads" - "The Balad of John Axon".
His grandson, the actor, also, John Axon, who died some years ago, at the early age of 48, was a friend of mine.
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I was aware you could get RNR records from the Royal Navy but have always understood that the Seaman's pouches at the National Archives were different. You live and learn. Do you get a photo of the seaman as you frequently do with the seaman's pouch?
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I ended up with both service records, and CR1 and Identity Card.
And, yes we did get a photo.
Not found his pouch, and my friend (whose grandfather this was) wasn't keen to spend the extra money?! :-\
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Good to know, thank you.
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Hi Julie
Many thanks for the reply. Yes 1929 Kelley lead noted. A moulder is useful which I hadn't noted. The address I have on John Gladys marriage record.
Thanks again
David
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Hi Garstonite
Thanks for the reply. Yes I have the 1929 Kelley data and the address on John Gladys marriage record. Marriage 1895 - now that's interesting will certainly follow that one up, the moulder and same street connections - yes. Great thank you again.
David
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Hi Julie
Thanks for the info re Lance Sergeant John Axon. I do believe though that the info given by cath151 is my John Axon i.e. a National Archives entry John Axon Service number 308839, birth 14 Mar 1912, Ashton on Tyne. Ref BT391/4/122. Also Gladys is still alive but with bad dementia, her son and daughter are positive they heard no more about John after 1944. So a death of 1957 is unlikely to be him (Not impossible at this stage) he is likely to have died in service?
Cheers
David
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I am a little confused to say the least. Do you have a positive date of birth or Discharge A number for your John Axon?
The only Record I can find in the series BT390 is this one. He would be a little young to marry Glady's
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_st=adv&_ep=axon&_cr1=bt390&_dss=range&_ro=any
BT390 covers Merchant seamen who served under T124X agreements. WW2 Merchant seamen who served on Merchant Ships requisitioned or commandeered by the Royal Navy. They kept their Merchant Navy pay and conditions but were subject to Royal Navy orders and discipline. (see also BT382 below)
BT391 Are similar to the records in BT372 and Covers Merchant seamen who took part in combined operations in Europe, during and after D-Day.
BT372 Covers Merchant Seamen's "Pouches" 1941-1972. Pouches can contain MN ID Card complete with photo details of qualifications gained and other euphoria. Also if a person had MN service before 1941 his/her records should be included in the "Pouch" Many of these records have been lost or destroyed.
BT382 Covers Merchant Seamen 1941-1972 and is divided into 7 sub series. Basically this series contains CRS10 forms, catalogued alphabetically in blocks of 60 names. They give the persons name, rank and details of vessels served on with the dates and places of engagement and discharge. This series also contains (In part 7) some records of seamen who served under T124 agreements. If it applied to your man it should be here
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11001344
For a detailed explanation see TNA's Research Guides.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/merchant-seaman-serving-after-1917/
I repeat. Unless you have a positive date and place of birth or a positive Discharge A number you will be forever running round in circles.
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Hi Julie
Yes spot on. John Axon Christening 7 Apr 1912, Date of Birth, Father Henry, Ashton under Lyne (Registration District for Audenshaw - all confirmed on the Marriage certificate I have.
No problem got a print out also from FindMyPast. Many thanks you confirm Sarah Elizabeth as mother maidenname given on FindMyPast as Vernon. No need for Local lookup.
Cheers
David
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Hi Cath151
Thank for this reply cath but I don't think this is my John. As I have said on another reply Gladys is still living, a widow and has never been abroad. She is suffering from dementia and her memory is suspect unfortunately, most info I have obtained is from her children.
Cheers anyway
David
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Hi Cath
Your reply #15 agreed see my response re your reply #13
Thanks again
David
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Hi Julie
Re the Probate for a John axon died 1957 doubtful, Gladys is still alive with severe dementia surely she would been informed and her children told. (Will place on back burner)
Thanks
David
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Hi Julie
Re the Probate for a John axon died 1957 doubtful, Gladys is still alive with severe dementia surely she would been informed and her children told. (Will place on back burner)
Thanks
David
It isn't him, I found a marriage for him to another Gladys.
Heather
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Baptism
St Michael and All Angels, Ashton under Lyne
7th April 1912
John Axon born 14th March
Father Henry Axon Inn Keeper ???
Mother Sarah Elizabeth
Address The Clarence Hotel, Old Cross Street
Baptised by AD Johnson
I don't know whether this clarifies things or not.
Heather
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I don't know if this has already been mentioned but it looks like the John born in 1912 Ashton had a brother Harry born in 1904 Manchester mmn Vernon.
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Hi Julie
Yes John had a Brother Harry. Tell me more PM details please if OK.
David
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Hi Gibel
Re your ww2talk pick this was me in the early days of fumbling about. I had found three marriages for a John Axon, a spouse Harrop was one of them. I was trying allsorts back then this one put me onto pouches (first i'd heard of them). CWGC turned up nothing. Sorry for the delay.
David
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Hi Ray
Thanks for the interesting tale of the Railway Driver John Axon your friend. A Ballard named after him and decorated to boot. I'm sorry such a colourful character was not my John Axon. Sorry for the delay. Thanks again.
Cheers
David
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I have sent you a message. Do you know when brother Harry died?
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Hi Ray
Thanks for the interesting tale of the Railway Driver John Axon your friend. A Ballard named after him and decorated to boot. I'm sorry such a colourful character was not my John Axon. Sorry for the delay. Thanks again.
Cheers
David
You're welcome. In case you, or anyone else, is/are interested -http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/radioballads/original/johnaxon.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/radioballads/original/johnaxon.shtml)
As for John Axon jnr see - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Axon_(actor) (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Axon_(actor)).
R
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Harry Axon was the landlord of the Clarence Pub in Ashton from 1909 to 1923.
Is this his death?
Henry Axon buried in Droylsden Cemetery 24 June 1936 (died 20 June 1936)
in the same grave is Sarah E Axon buried 16 Jan 1951(died 10 Jan 1951)
In 1939, there is a Sarah Axon in Manor Street, Audenshaw.
It looks like son Harry was living on Wood lane in Ashton in 1939.
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Dear All,
I am a granddaughter of John Axon. My mothers mother was Gladys Rose Bickerdyke who married John Axon. Gladys mother, Hannah was married twice to a Mr Bickerdyke then to a Mr Lindley.
My Grandma Gladys did remarry to a Robert Moss. My Grandma Gladys died and I attended her funeral and later Robert Moss funeral.
I know little about my Grandma's first husband, I was told that his brothers were Harry and Arthur, and that their mother Sarah Elizabeth ran a hotel. I also was told about a connection with Wales, was Sarah from there. I was told that John Axon was taken to Pennselveyna with the family returning back to the UK when he was 12. I was told that John Axon before the war worked as a ships engineer for Ellerman and Wilson, during the war as a ships engineer for the Merchant Navy. I was told that Grandma Gladys received a missing presumed dead telegram just before Christmas towards the end of the war,and then after that, no official information, I too have heard about the secret mission off Zanzibar. All, I can say is that John Axon was never seen again by my mother, her brothers and their mother Gladys. This created hardship for them. I would be grateful to learn more about John Axon. Did he die, any official records, did he go missing, did he have another life?
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Hello Northern Woman
A warm welcome to Rootschat.
If any of the people mentioned are still living, please will you remove their names as there is a no living person policy on the site.
John Axon born 14th March 1912 was working as a Lead Castor at Accumulator Safety Lamp works in 1939. His address was 9 Garden Street Hyde -the same address given in an earlier reply.
by Cath151. He was still alive in 1948.
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From Familysearch.org
John Axon
Event Type: Immigration
Event Date: 1945
Event Place: New York City, New York, United States
Gender: Male
Age: 32
Birth Year (Estimated): 1913
Birthplace: British
Ship Name: Empire Arun
Affiliate Publication Number: T715
Affiliate Publication Title: Passenger and Crew Lists of Vessels Arriving at New York, NY, 1897-1957
Affiliate Film Number: 6918
GS Film Number: 002310723
Digital Folder Number: 007264335
Image Number: 00135
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Dear All, This is really interesting, it has been a life time of not knowing. So, it seems he went to New York in 1945 and returned in 1948 giving the Garden Street address. As a child I was told his father had been in mining in Pennyslvania. I had never heard about him working in a Safety Lamps works, I had been told Engineering on ships.So, what did he do in America. I was told that he had wanted to emigrate to South Africa. I was told that he was widely travelled and that was the life he liked best.
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Hi NW
I am the instigator of the John Axon thread. I am acting (as a Maybe distant cousin) on behalf of another grandaughter of Gladys, who married John Axon aged 17, 18 Jan 1930 at St Thomas' Parish Church, Hyde. Johns address 2 Manor Street, Audenshaw. Full name in the record Gladys Bickerdyke Lindley, father Joseph Lindley. Your post appears to tick quite a few boxes for me.
I can put you in touch with the person I am acting for, please send me a private message if possible if not, contact support.
Regards
Gillum
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Thanks Gilum, I have written to support to find out how to private message you, as there is a lot of interest here.
Regards
The Northern woman
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First you have to make 3 posts - you have done that!
Now you click on the document icon, on the left, underneath the user's name and avatar.
The document icon is green if the user is online, and white if they are offline ;D
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Hi Northern Woman,
I have sent you a message.
Look at the top of the page where it says My Messages.
Heather
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Thanks Gilum, I have written to support to find out how to private message you, as there is a lot of interest here.
Regards
The Northern woman
I have sent you a Testing private message to help you see how it works ;D
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Got hold of the seamans "pouch" and CRS 10 of John Axon R308839
Nothing much in the pouch, only a card CR1 and the attached photograph.
His CRS 10 is too large to send electronically. If you would like a copy send me your postal address via PM. After serving on several ships (16) post June 1944 he deserted the ship PRINCE ALBERT PARK on 12/11/1949 in Newcastle NSW.
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Thankyou Heather god your help
I was wondering if anyone had any local history on the Clarence Hotel, Ashton u Lyne.
Many thanks
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Heather thankyou for all your help