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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: ironbark on Wednesday 23 November 16 04:39 GMT (UK)
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Searching for marriage of Thomas Moss born 12/11/1799 Almondbury son of William Moss and a Maria bap. 7/12/1799 @ Lane Independant Church Holmfirth Yorkshire. I am hoping to find that he is one and the same with a convict sent to Tasmania as Charles Moss, his wife Sarah also sent same time seperate ship along with a child Levi 2 yrs. Charles or Thomas (as stated by Sarah to be his name) sentenced 4/7/1831 York (Leeds) transported on the England 7 Yrs. I cannot progress unless I can find his mothers maiden name or Sarah's maiden name as after Charles Thomas) died Sarah married as a Pilkington, I assume to cover her convict past. Hoping to discover that Maria's or Sarah's name may have been Pilkington. When Charles (Thomas) died in Tasmania 11/5/1845 his death cert stated that he was 45 yrs and his name was Thomas Pilkington Moss. Sarah remarried in Tasmania 1848 as Pilkington and her son Levi my 2 x G grandfather from then on was called Thomas Levi Pilkington. It is quite possible that the Thomas I have selected b. Almondbury is not the correct person but he is my best bet I believe, if his mother Maria was a Pilkington or Sarah herself was then I would be on the way to solving.
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Posting this just in case it could be relevant (from freereg) though not Yorkshire
St Mary, Nottingham
Baptism 24 Mar 1830
Levi
Father Charles MOSS
Mother Sarah
Fathers occupation Labourer
I can't see this Levi on later census
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Rosie
Thank you for that info, it also tells me that Thomas was using the name Charles, well prior to being sentenced. He was sentenced and transported as Charles and even had another child in Tasmania as Charles and Sarah, although Sarah says he was Thomas and he was buried as Thomas. Sarah's transportation record says she had left a child behind in England who I assumed must have been older or possibly even younger that Levi. Could I be bold enough to ask whether a second child was baptized at that church, although I will try to find myself. I have a few possibles for Sarah's maiden name but also possibles if he married as Charles and not Thomas. Sarah was a native of Armagh, Once again thank you, I seem to have a bit of luck with rootschat.
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This is such a strange one. Especially as Charles Moss' Tasmanian convict records list his birth year as about 1803, his occupation as "gentleman's servant" (a far cry from "labourer") and his native place as "Lincoln". And yet it is the right person as it mentions his wife, Sarah Moss, and their two children and that she was coming out on the "Hydery". And that Sarah Moss' record mentions her husband's name as Thomas Moss.
No wonder you're having a tough time tracking him down. ::)
How sure of the baptism record are you? Is it just one of many possibles? Or do you have some other supporting info that says he was born in Yorkshire or that these were his parent's names? Should we widen our search?
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Difficult, but what I know working backwards
William James Moss born 18/2/1837 New Norfolk Tasmania to Charles and Sarah Moss
Death of Thomas Pilkington Moss 11/5/1845 aged 45yrs buried at New Norfolk 14/5/1845
Levi Moss transported with mother Sarah Moss wife of Charles Moss, Sarah on Hydery and Charles per England, child 2-2½ (Levi) Levi re-united with parents 1840 from Orphanage
1848 Sarah marries John Robinson as Sarah Pilkington and they reside near New Norfolk along with her sons William James Pilkington and Thomas Levi Pilkington.
William James Moss and William James Pilkington birth date (from family records) both share same birth date 18/2/1837.
Thomas Levi and William James (are brothers) from later documents.
Sarah's death places her birth closer to 1799/1800 as does Charles's
You mention Charles as native of Lincoln I cannot locate the indent for Charles which would have his native place but sure I have seen and agree (would you have a copy)
The Thomas I have shown as son of William and Maria, is the only one I have been able to make fit, that was why I have tried to find Maria's maiden name, I cannot prove he is the correct one and I cannot select the correct marriage between Sarah and her husband Charles (Thomas).
I have calculated that Levi was born March/April 1830 from his Orphanage records. This also matches Thomas Levi's death age.
When I started this search years ago I had no knowledge of where my 2 x G GF Thomas Levi Pilkington or his mother Sarah Pilkington originated. My first break through was connecting William James Pilkington and Thomas as brothers and the William James Moss birth.
Did not go into all this on my first post as it would have been too confusing.
Even though I have not been able to find the baptism that Rosie99 has supplied it is the only Levi Moss that possibly matches.
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Levis baptism is on here
http://freereg2.freereg.org.uk/
Just select Nottinghamshire as county as Moss Levi
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Sorry Rosie I meant that I had not previously found that baptism and thank you again for the link. ; 8)
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Here is the link to the record in the Tasmanian Archive showing Charles Moss' Native Place as Lincoln:
https://stors.tas.gov.au/CON23-1-2
You will need to select M988 to M1010 on the left hand side. He is number 996 on the page.
For others who wish to help, here is a link to the Tasmanian Archives page which links all of Charles Moss' convict records together:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01iwd/
And this is the link for the convict records for his wife, Sarah Moss:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01iwf/
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hsfam
The form with the native place mentioned I had overlooked for some reason I have seen the others via the Tas linc site, the indent book I mentioned where I had seen the native place mentioned I now cannot find, I have the Indent page for Sarah still though it is a rectangular book (landscape) and pages were scanned separately. I probably overlooked the faded pages doc you have pointed out. If you want to see what the book looks like the site "Founders and Survivors" has a link beside Sarah Moss convict record
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I know this isn't going to answer your question immediately, but I sometimes find it helps to back track where people were physically in their lives.
So, for example, the newspaper report on the incident (robbery of silver coin and a gold seal from Thomas Ellis by three men - one being Charles) which led to Charles Moss' conviction has the location as in Kirkgate near White Swan Inn, Call-lane in Leeds. This occurred on 10 May 1831.
The newspaper report for Sarah's incident: convicted of stealing a roll of black ribbon from the shop of Mr. Bennington Wakefield. (Newspaper report: Leeds Intelligencer 12 January 1832)
So they were hanging around the Leeds, Yorkshire district at this time.
Before that, they apparently baptised Levi in Nottingham in 1830.
I notice a conviction for a Charles and Sarah Moss in Nottingham for "uttering counterfeit coin" in July 1829 in Nottingham. They were sentenced to imprisonment for 12 months and sureties. Ostensibly, this couldn't be your Charles and Sarah if they baptised Levi in March 1830 since they should be in prison. But I was wondering if Levi was born while Sarah was in prison and the prison authorities arranged for the baptism?
Interestingly, two other people were also listed next to them for the same offence and received the same punishment - Sarah and Elizabeth Johnson. However, it is not clear if it was the same incident and I cannot find a newspaper account to clarify. There are plenty of examples of this kind of crime being committed so it may be a coincidence. However, if they were involved in the same incident, they may be friends or relations and might give you a further clue.
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hsfam
I have "Leeds Intelligencer 12/11/1832 and 22/031832 newspaper clippings re the Wakefield roll of Black ribbon and transportation news and Yorkshire Gazette re transportation. Also one re Pontefract QS 1832 Charles and Sarah Moss of Liverpool charged with stealing a piece of print property of Messrs Ullathorne and Routledge. Acquitted. I have not seen the I know nothing of the Nottingham 1829 coin utterance w. 12 months sentence, could she also be let out early to have the child or Charles parents arrange the baptism, as Sarah had already a child I assume someone else must have been looking after this child. Sarah does mention an earlier offence on her convict report.
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I don't know for sure what they did with pregnant women in prison, but I suspect they don't let them out early. More likely she would have to give them over to someone else to care for - whether family, friend or institution - until she was released from prison.
I found the uttering counterfeit coin conviction records on FindMyPast.
I've been rummaging around like crazy trying all kinds of sites and combinations of names etc, but the only thing I've come up with is that Thomas Moss born 12/11/1799 to William and Maria Moss had a sister:
Name: Ann Moss
Born: 12 November 1799
Baptised: 7 December 1799
Place: Lane Independent, Holmfirth, York, England
Parents: William and Maria Moss
Residence: Green House
Parish: Kirkburton
I also checked Thomas' original baptism record on Anc. and it also states:
Residence: Green House
Parish: Kirkburton
I often find it helps researching collateral lines. For example, I managed to figure out a mother's maiden name by working out a 2nd cousin relationship for her grandson and working backwards. I've also found wills of aunts and uncles helpful. So, if you can follow Ann, you may find extra information to help flesh out the tree a bit.
You've got your work cut out for you on this one! Sorry I couldn't find more. If I do, I'll post it.
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Thank you for your efforts hsfam that Thomas did have a sister Ann and I will spend some time looking for her as you suggest.
regards
Kenneth
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Oh Gosh! The dates for Ann should be:
Birth: 4 November 1797
Baptism: 9 December 1797
Sorry about that. I was looking at Thomas instead of Ann. The details are almost exactly the same.
And I was trying to be so careful, too. :-[
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Not to worry already had them noted, and did not realise your typo