RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: BradMajors on Saturday 19 November 16 18:50 GMT (UK)
-
What is the name of the parish in the attached image?
-
Perranzabuloe?
I Googled Truro parishes and the above came up.
Giggsy
-
Looks like penguin :D
-
Quote
Looks like penguin
Well I didn't like to say!
-
Where did you get this record from? It would be good to see the whole of the page that you have given on here.
-
Hello -
I would read the first three letters as 'Per' and I think that Perranzabuloe is probably the most likely parish.
craggagh.
-
I think it says "Per quin libellor", which is Latin for "by that certificate". Without seeing more of the entry, I'm not sure what document it refers to.
It is possible that someone copied the wrong text from a previous baptism or birth record.
Steve
-
Hmm I'm a bit dubious about that Steve
We've got .....born in the Parish of (then unreadable word(s)) in or near the Town of Truro
I wouldn't have thought latin words would have been used for a birthplace??!!
As you said we really need to see more of the document.
-
I think it says "Per quin libellor", which is Latin for "by that certificate". Without seeing more of the entry, I'm not sure what document it refers to.
It is possible that someone copied the wrong text from a previous baptism or birth record.
Steve
That's how I read it too before I saw your answer...but it's written as Perquin Libellor and I googled it!
There isn't a Truro parish that come close to what is written that I can see.
Carol
-
It`s part of an enlistment document so perhaps the person produced his birth certificate as proof of age and place of birth. Totally agree with with Per quin Libellor.
Mo
-
It does read Perquin Libellor, maybe referring to a previous document as mentioned by snbny357 or as mosiefish says. He was 42years old at the time. There are no parishes in Cornwall, let alone Truro district that match,, in English or Cornish language form.
-
Hi,
Perranbuloe parish in the 100 of Pyder,poor law union is Truro,and the reg dis.is Truro.
Regards
Joburg
-
Just for the record, it’s written Perquin Sibellor (not Libellor).
It is not Latin, and it does not mean ‘by that certificate’.
It appears to be an attempt to render the name of a Cornish parish that was unfamiliar to the writer. As has been suggested, Perranzabuloe is the most likely (not Perranbuloe).
-
Looks like L to me, not an S.
-
Looks like L to me, not an S.
The clue is in the bottom of the letter. In this sort of italic hand, a capital L would normally have a final stroke or hook that leads forwards, not backwards as here.
-
I think it is just a sloppy L. Apart from that, why the q and also the i, which is dotted.
-
I think it is just a sloppy L.
In my view, and from the small part that we can see here, the hand is not at all sloppy – it is well-formed and precise, with a clear distinction made between letters.
Apart from that, why the q and also the i, which is dotted.
I’m suggesting that the parish name is mis-spelt because the writer was unfamiliar with it. This is a military discharge paper, which may have been written up a very long way from Cornwall. The details would almost certainly have been copied from another document, possibly with a long copying-chain behind it, and there may have been mis-copying or mis-hearing anywhere along that chain.
-
I agree the hand is neat and tidy but the L [or S] seems to be slightly unformed, it could be a personal trait of the writer maybe. The wording does seem,as previously mentioned to be displaced. Maybe more of the document, if shown, could help.
I must say, that although I had to write everything in copperplate at school up to the age of eleven, my writing is not a touch on this.
-
I have to say that I doubted that the third letter was an "r" as it doesn't match the other "r"s in the writing and thought it could be an "n"...but agree the second word begins with "S" and it does look at first glance like "Penguin"
Carol
-
I see “Perquin Sibellor”. Apparently “Zabuloe” is pronounced something like “ZEE-b-le”, so getting close to “Sibellor”. “Perquin” bothers me, but if it’s copied from another handwritten document it’s feasible. “Perran” derives from Saint Piran, variously spelt Pyran/Pirayn/Peran and so on. I can readily see “Peryan” transcribed as “Perquin”.
It would be handy to know where and when the record was made.
But, in short, I agree 100% with Bookbox (and Giggsycat earlier) - a parish in and around Truro in Cornwall, looking something like “Perranzabuloe” has to be meant for ‘Perranzabuloe”,
Cheers,
Peter
-
I agree the hand is neat and tidy but the L [or S] seems to be slightly unformed
I think you've put your finger on it. The L appears to be ‘slightly unformed’ because it is actually S. ;)
Regardless of that, the parish name has clearly been mis-spelt in this military discharge paper. So the issue is to determine which parish was intended. So far, Perranzabuloe seems to be the best candidate, and especially if the second word does begin with S.
-
Before I had seen any of the other replies is had read it as Perguin/Peryuin Sibellor. *
Given the actual pronunciation of the second part of Perranzabuloe (reply #19) I think it's a poor attempt at a phonetic rendering of that name.
* Copperplate 'S' and 'L' are often confused. This is why a lot of people who were actually sawyers are mistranscribed as lawyers :D
-
Don't discount a Cornish accent making things harder to understand, too! ;D
-
Update. These images are from Army discharge documents:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8828942
Here is another image from another document for the same person:
-
The capital letters L and S are often confused, it is a common mistake. I have lost count of the number of people who have been surprised to find a Lawyer amongst their Ag. Labs, when they were actually Sawyers.
Jebber
-
That is a g, I discounted it in the first document. It does also look more like a S than a L in this one. Still makes no sense though.
-
Seems to me you have enough info at this point to check baptism or birth registration records to see if he is in that parish or not. That's really the only way to know for sure whether this is a simply a misspelling or something else.
-
Perranzabuloe?
I Googled Truro parishes and the above came up.
Giggsy
It looks like this is the answer to your question supported by Bookbox's explanation for the odd spelling.
Carol