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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Painterleo on Saturday 19 November 16 18:29 GMT (UK)

Title: Place of birth
Post by: Painterleo on Saturday 19 November 16 18:29 GMT (UK)
Im trying to trace my great grandfather,whose name i know,but cant find where he was born to further my search in records history
So my question is if i cant find where exactly he was born where do i go next,as there are some people with same name.
I know where & date he was married,but no details of birth.
Could someone please give me some suggestions,so i can move forward.
Thank you all in anticipation
Title: Re: Place of birth
Post by: ScouseBoy on Saturday 19 November 16 18:43 GMT (UK)
Do you know  where and when he died and was buried?
Title: Re: Place of birth
Post by: ScouseBoy on Saturday 19 November 16 18:44 GMT (UK)
Im trying to trace my great grandfather,whose name i know,but cant find where he was born to further my search in records history
So my question is if i cant find where exactly he was born where do i go next,as there are some people with same name.
I know where & date he was married,but no details of birth.
Could someone please give me some suggestions,so i can move forward.
Thank you all in anticipation
    What age was shown on his marriage certificate, please?
Title: Re: Place of birth
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 19 November 16 18:48 GMT (UK)
Are you going to let us into the secret of what his name was?  That might help to trace him  :o :o
Title: Re: Place of birth
Post by: Painterleo on Saturday 19 November 16 19:25 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately ive no ideas at this point to when he died or where he was buried,sorry i wish i was more helpful
Title: Re: Place of birth
Post by: davidft on Saturday 19 November 16 19:28 GMT (UK)
If the person you are looking for is the father of Brian (Bryan) Fury then have a look at the 1911 census as it names his father and where he was born. You can then follow this person back through the censuses. However if this is the person you are after you may have a problem as the 1881 census has him down as a nurse child and there is no obvious birth for him
Title: Re: Place of birth
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 19 November 16 19:28 GMT (UK)
BUT - his name  :o :o  We can't find birth, marriage, death or burial without a name?   ;) ;)
Title: Re: Place of birth
Post by: Painterleo on Saturday 19 November 16 19:33 GMT (UK)
Hi yes he was a nurse child you are correct
On his marriage cert his father is showing as Thomas fury who is deceased,& was a farmer
Title: Re: Place of birth
Post by: ScouseBoy on Saturday 19 November 16 19:36 GMT (UK)
What is the man you are searching for called, please?
Title: Re: Place of birth
Post by: davidft on Saturday 19 November 16 19:45 GMT (UK)
OK sorry to say but when you find someone as a nurse child on the census there is a high correlation of the alleged father that later appears on the childs marriage certificate to be false.

So what we know is that Bryan's father is John Fury supposedly born circa 1876 in Knighton Radnorshire, Wales. I cannot find John on all censuses so that is something to follow up it might give some clues.

John marries Susan Nicholas in 1895 when you get the name of Thomas Fury deceased. So you could look up all the Thomas Fury's (there are not many) who die 1875 to 1895 and find them on the census to see if they can be ruled out or in.

You could also look for a baptism of John Fury either in Radnorshire or in Ludlow as sometimes these name the real father.

In short it may be hard work but worth a try. Good luck
Title: Re: Place of birth
Post by: Painterleo on Saturday 19 November 16 19:52 GMT (UK)
Thankyou bery much for all the useful information,as you say its well worth pursuing some of the other avenues to try to pinpoint a little better.
Many thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Place of birth
Post by: davidft on Saturday 19 November 16 20:20 GMT (UK)
Found John in 1891. He is recorded as John Fury Blakeway. He is still in the Blakeway household although the head of the house John has died and his widow Mary is now head of house. He is now shown as "son" although we know from the nurse child this is incorrect. It could be that an elder Blakeway daughter was his mother but at this stage that is just a guess. His place of birth is given as Knighton Radnorshire although it has been badly transcribed as something completely different
Title: Re: Place of birth
Post by: Painterleo on Saturday 19 November 16 20:27 GMT (UK)
Thankyou very much re about John fury,its still his father,Thomas im having trouble tracking down but going to keep plugging away.
Thank you
Title: Re: Place of birth
Post by: groom on Saturday 19 November 16 20:43 GMT (UK)
Thankyou very much re about John fury,its still his father,Thomas im having trouble tracking down but going to keep plugging away.
Thank you

I think what David has said could be very true - there may not be a Thomas Fury. If that is the only time that his name appears with John, it could well be that it was made up to look respectable on the marriage certificate. This happened quite frequently.

 
Title: Re: Place of birth
Post by: groom on Saturday 19 November 16 20:59 GMT (UK)
There appear to be only two John Furys born in Wales around the right time - both in Brecknockshire.


FURY, JOHN       mother MCDONOGHUE 
1875  Sept  Quarter
BRECKNOCK 
Volume 11B  Page 107   

FURY, JOHN  PATRICK  mother   WILLIAMS     
1875  March Quarter 
BRECKNOCK 
Volume 11B  Page 105
Title: Re: Place of birth
Post by: iolaus on Saturday 19 November 16 22:57 GMT (UK)
I have an ancestor who was illegitimate (his father is named on the baptism record) - on his marriage certificate his father is given with the correct first name and his (the mothers) surname - this person clearly never existed.
Whether he deliberately misled them to appear more respectable I don't know - or whether they just asked for his father's first name, he said, correctly Thomas, and the person recording the marriage made the assumption about the surname - the profession was also correct

So it may well be Thomas SomethingotherthanFury - a farmer who is the father - where did John's mother work before his birth - if she worked on a farm I'd look to see if a Thomas is there
Title: Re: Place of birth
Post by: davidft on Saturday 19 November 16 23:09 GMT (UK)
Thinking laterally I decided to look to see if there were any Fury births in Ludlow around this time. Interestingly there is a birth and death for a Edwin Fury. Looking on the GRO index no mother's maiden name is given. The only way you are going to find out if there is anything on the birth certificate that may help you is if you buy it I am afraid.

Familysearch names the mother as Anne Furey (sic)

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXTZ-M6Y

Births Sep 1879   
Fury    Edwin        Ludlow    6a   579    

Deaths Dec 1879
Fury    Edwin    0    Ludlow    6a   387

There is a further birth in 1885 this time the mother's maiden name is given as Fury

Births Jun 1885 
Fury    Male        Ludlow    6a   562