RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: coombs on Friday 11 November 16 19:42 GMT (UK)
-
A thread on names different to unusual names, as first and middle names that sound more like surnames are not necessarily odd, more that it was the name of a local figure or more importantly to us family historians, a family name.
For instance my ancestor is Nathan Jackson Quilter born c1752 in Essex. Died 1817 in Rettendon, Essex aged 75. I have scoured many, many SEAX Essex registers for a baptism to no avail yet but his middle name is food for thought. I did find a Roger Quilter wed a Mary Jackson in north Essex in 1604. But this could be name coincidence, then again sometimes a family name given as a first or middle name can be from a few generations back.
These are particularly common in East Anglia. I have a Mary Newman Smith in my tree who wed in Foulness, Essex in 1780. Such occurrences can be helpful.
I have a Amis Hempson in my tree and the Amis link is several generations back.
-
This happened a few times in my family, in most cases the child's first name was the mothers maiden name (Eustace, Barbour, Carpenter)....
-
It's happened in mine too.
My grandfather's middle name was Simla, named after his (I think) godfather whose family had been missionaries in India (Simla).
I also have the usual instances of mother's maiden name, e.g. Isaac Handscomb Branson plus the odd illegitimate child whose middle name was a big clue as to the identity of the father ;D
A branch of my family who emigrated to Western Australia from Colmworth, Bedfordshire. later gave two of their children the middle name of Bedford - obviously not wanting to forget their origins :)
What is really annoying is when you find a middle name which is obviously a surname but you have no idea where it came from.
Bev
-
Very common in Scottish guys.
Skoosh.
-
Verra true Skoosh. Of my mother and her 7 siblings, only one didn't have a former family surname as a middle name. Her mother, my gran had two. ;)
-
Shockin score the night Seoras, I still like wee Strachan though!
Skoosh.
-
Three good headers Skoosh but the score didn't reflect the game really. I think it's best to stick with Strachan too.
-
And common practice amongst Scots-Irish ...
Johnston Ambrose (surname)Crozier is a recent example in my family
Or early days ...
Cadwalander Blaney who married mary Sproule and yup very kindly named a son Sproule Blaney
I could go on haha
-
I have a Horatio Ross McGregor, born 1848, who was born after his family moved to Ross-shire. I thought he was named after Horatio Nelson and the county they’d moved to, until I realised that it was probably more likely that he was named for Horatio Nelson’s god-son, Horatio Ross, a famous sportsman of that era.
-
Great coincidence there McG,
Must have been good when you realised the actual connection/reason.
Annie
-
Sinclair used as a forename but also with a female version of Sinclairina (Scotland) although elsewhere too was fascinating to discover.
Of my mother and her 7 siblings, only one didn't have a former family surname as a middle name. Her mother, my gran had two. ;)
Lucky you Seoras ;)
What is really annoying is when you find a middle name which is obviously a surname but you have no idea where it came from.
Can relate to that Bev, still searchin where the middle name Morris appeared from as I haven't found anyone with that surname (YET)!
Annie
-
My gt grandfather was named Robert Thomas Blake Shearing, whose father had named him in favour of the man who gave him his first job = Thomas Blake.
One of my cousins and her husband gave their son one name and that was of an old estate in Scotland. This was a recognition of which branch of the Clan he and his father originated from.
-
Surnames as middle names are fairly common (including my grandfather), it's less common to find them as first names, though I have a branch of my family where there are a lot of boys named Johnson, even decades after Miss Johnson married into the family.
Often a surname-as-middle name comes from the mother's maiden name, but sometimes it comes from an earlier generation. It's helped me trace one line of family - I have a Robert Seager Dash who takes his middle name from his maternal grandmother's family. I found the link by putting the surname Seager into familysearch and eventually finding a link to Robert's mother.
-
I have a number of people on my tree with these first names: Chancellor, Farrer and Attiwell (sometimes Attwell or Ottewell). Note these are first names and not middle names. Just doing a search using unusual first names like these, and nothing else, can be highly informative. I recently did this on the new Scotland's People for the first name Chancellor and came to the conclusion that they are probably all connected and that the name emanated, and not through kinship, from the Chancellor family who owned Shieldhill in Libberton, Lanarkshire.
William
-
In my Suffolk family it was not unusual for daughters who married and lost their maiden name, to give that name to one of their sons as a first name. The downside of this was that the surname was Pearle... I often think how those poor lads must have suffered!
-
I've mentioned before how my gt-gt-grandfather commemorated several of his (and his wife's) ancestors in naming his offspring. He was only forced to think outside the box at about the seventh child - which helped me a great deal in deciding who some further ancestors may have been, in particular his wife's parents, whose surname had been wrongly recorded at their marriage in 1806.
-
My husbands Great Grandfather gave one of his sons the forenames William Ewart Gladstone.
No prizes for guessing his political alliances then ;D
-
I have a number of people on my tree with these first names: Chancellor, Farrer and Attiwell (sometimes Attwell or Ottewell). Note these are first names and not middle names. Just doing a search using unusual first names like these, and nothing else, can be highly informative. I recently did this on the new Scotland's People for the first name Chancellor and came to the conclusion that they are probably all connected and that the name emanated, and not through kinship, from the Chancellor family who owned Shieldhill in Libberton, Lanarkshire.
William
Have you seen many with the first name Garner
-
SB - no as had no reason to look. You could look for yourself.
-
I find Essex ancestors are quite hard to research due to the poor coverage on the IGI although FreeReg is indexing more and more. Maybe I should help and start transcribing myself. SEAX is good but it still involves browsing only.
I have a Lorken Wallaker in my tree, but no record yet of a Lorken/Lorking in the family tree yet. And Otley Lucking of Foulness. Otley's paternal gran was Elizabeth Otley, originally from Suffolk.
-
In the Holmfirth area of West Yorkshire, there was a long tradition of giving one son his mother's surname as his first name.
Thus, we have a Sykes Briggs, a Schofield Sykes and a Ranfield Hirst in our immediate tree.
Such names as Brook Turner, Green Armitage, Mellor Haigh, Beaumont Swallow were very common at one time.
-
Four first names that occur in my tree, Leggett, Major, Ridgeway and Young.
Many more used as middle names, my own son has my maiden name as a middle name.
Jebber
-
I have a few instances of this.
Harrison Bunning, son of John Bunning and Rebecca Harrison.
Blanchflower Dack, son of Francis Dack and Susan Blanchflower.
Sweatman Revell, son of Thomas Revell and Frances Sweatman.
In those last two cases I think the sons did not appreciate it!
-
I found a Thomas Smith Plumb born 1785 in Leigh On Sea, Essex. Parents Thomas and Elizabeth (Saveall) Plumb.
And a Margaret Robjent Boosey, Robjent was the name of a married aunty of Margaret Boosey.
And Richard Otley Sparke born in Foulness in 1767, his dad was Richard Sparke, born in 1741, maternal half brother of Elizabeth Lucking (Nee Otley). Her dad Sam Otley died in 1736 and her mum Susan Otley (Nee Deeks) remarried to a John Sparke in 1737. So Richard Otley Sparke was given a middle name after his grandmothers first hubby Samuel Otley, who was no blood relation to him.
-
My grandfather's middle name was Cherry - which turned out to be his mother's maiden name, which then made more sense as up to then just wondered why he had a girl's name.
I've also got a Wookey in my family tree, which was from his mother's family
-
Richard Otley Sparke born in Foulness in 1767, his dad was Richard Sparke, born in 1741, maternal half brother of Elizabeth Lucking (Nee Otley). Her dad Sam Otley died in 1736 and her mum Susan Otley (Nee Deeks) remarried to a John Sparke in 1737. So Richard Otley Sparke was given a middle name after his grandmothers first hubby Samuel Otley, who was no blood relation to him.
I've found Ottley being used as a first name in 1917 by a descendant of our Lucking family - I wonder if they knew the origins of the name?
-
Sometimes the family connection to the surname goes back a few generations. I have William Redmore Ray, a clockmaker from Sudbury, whose middle name relates to his paternal grandmother Ann Frost's mother's maiden name (mind you she also had a brother Redmore Frost). Other members of the Ray family were given family names as middle names too. And Ann Frost's great uncle was Isaac Redmore from Glemsford, more than likely named after his mother Alice Isaak rather than just the use of the name Isaac which hadn't occurred previously in the Redmore family.
-
Certainly may be a help if the baptism and parents of the ancestor with the distinctive middle name cannot be found.
Claire and I are distant cousins thought the Lucking's of Foulness.
I think my Isaac Deeks came from Glemsford.
-
I think my Isaac Deeks came from Glemsford.
Ann Frost's great grandfather was Isaac Deeks the elder buried at Glemsford in 1658. We haven't followed forward many of the later lines, concentrating more on the immediate generations and researching backwards. There were quite a few Isaac Deeks in Glemsford and surrounding parishes.
-
My Father had the middle name "French" and I have yet to find anyone else in his family line with that name, nobody in the Family knows why.
Carol
-
In the Holmfirth area of West Yorkshire, there was a long tradition of giving one son his mother's surname as his first name.
And I have a Kinder Liversidge born 1807 in Lockwood (Huddersfield). The Kinder was passed down to later generations - I think the last one died early in WW1 aged 18.
-
The most prevalent family surnames as first names in my research come from Stanhope, County Durham and North Carolina, USA.
-
I think my Isaac Deeks came from Glemsford.
Ann Frost's great grandfather was Isaac Deeks the elder buried at Glemsford in 1658. We haven't followed forward many of the later lines, concentrating more on the immediate generations and researching backwards. There were quite a few Isaac Deeks in Glemsford and surrounding parishes.
We could be distant cousins then. Do you descend from Ann Frost directly?
My ancestor Thomas Stock was born in 1718 in Bardfield, to John and Ann and he had a brother Bush Stock. Maybe Ann's maiden name as I cannot find a likely marriage for John to Ann.
-
We could be distant cousins then. Do you descend from Ann Frost directly?
Yes.
-
The furthest removed I have seen a surname being passed down is the name "Healy" which appears in my family tree.
My 4x great grandparents had a son called Healy Thomas Knighton. It stood out because all the other siblings had either normal names like George, William and Sarah, or biblical names like Jabez and Amos.
Going back another generation, my 4x great aunt Ruth Knighton had a son called Healy Thomas Cunnington.
I expected to find the surname "Healy" by tracing the Knighton family further back, but it doesn't appear.
Both Healy Thomas Knighton and Healy Thomas Cunnington passed the name down to their children, and in the case of Healy Knighton it is still used by his descendants today.
One day I discovered that Ruth Knighton was once a housekeeper for a Healy Thomas Chapman! As far as I've checked, there is no family connection so he must have been well regarded by the family.
I wanted to see where Healy Thomas Chapman got the name from, so I traced his family tree backwards and found out it came from his great grandmother Mary Healy!
Hopefully you've been able to follow this!
-
I have a Stannard Plumb born in 1807. His great grandfather was Stannard Allen born in 1700 and Stannard Allen's mum was a Stannard. So it does show that a surname as a middle name can be several generations back.
-
This happened a few times in my family, in most cases the child's first name was the mothers maiden name (Eustace, Barbour, Carpenter)....
I have never heard of such a dastardly action! ;)
Cheers
Guy
-
Surname Browne; 1st name Browne. How imaginative was that!
-
Could have been worse,.......Gordon! ;D
Skoosh.
-
I like Gordon Brown.
The Browne Browne lived in a manor house. I'd forgotten the surname was hyphenated so it was Browne ****-Browne. The family line died out. Perhaps they stopped having children because they couldn't think what to call them.
-
I have a Stannard Plumb born in 1807.
How very serendipitous. Stannard must be connected with tin (Cornwall?) and Plumb with lead. ;D
-
That made me smile and think of tin bath.
Carol
-
My Garrad ancestors were veterinary surgeons, and closely linked to a Baker family, also vet's.
These families were also linked to the Golding and Whitmore families.
Consequently I have in my tree:
Baker Garrad
Garrad Baker
Whitmore Baker
Golding Constable
Golding Garrad
Seems to be prevalent in Suffolk?
-
Seems to be prevalent in Suffolk?
Yes
I have
Branwhite Stribling (numerous)
Branwhite Spurgin
Branwhite Westrop
Branwhite Burch
Brooke Branwhite Muriel (his father was Brooke Muriel, his grandmother was Mary Branwhite and 2xGGmother on the Branwhite line was Sarah Brooke)
Westrop Turner
And others plus numerous who had Branwhite as a middle name.
Also originating in Northamptonshire:
Sands Chapman (numerous)
Sands Read (numerous)
Sands Hitchcock
Sands Day
Sands Johnson
Sands Chapman Eedle
We've never found who the Sands was, probably a maiden name, but there are two missing marriages in the 1600s - well one and one where the parish clerk left off the wife's maiden name) so was probably one of those brides. :-\