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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: ellenbrora on Monday 07 November 16 13:46 GMT (UK)
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I wonder if anyone can help to identify the uniform in the attached photo.
A friend's family believe(d) the chap in the photo to be James Patrick Sutherland, 1898 to 1923, in his "WWI uniform".
I'm pretty sure this is not an army uniform, although I am no expert! I reckon it to be a police uniform. The man spent his whole (sadly short) life around the Wick, Caithness area, and was a Printer to trade. I can find no WWI forces record for him so far. The family have no knowledge of him having been in the police.
So... is this a police uniform? If so, which police force? What time frame? Could it be a special constable's uniform?
Another family member was a police officer in Glasgow in the early 1900's, and it is possible that the photo is actually he.
Would appreciate thoughts and suggestions as to where to further research.
Ellen
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He could have been in the Corps of Military Police.
Or he may have been Royal Dockyard Police, at Rosyth or Scapa Flow
Was the chain for his watch?
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Thanks ScouseBoy, all possibilities which I will have to look into I guess. There are no records or even family stories to date which would indicate that the man they believe this to be lived or worked anywhere but Caithness.
I'm afraid I don't know about the chain, the family have little or no additional info re the photo. If it is police, then this could be his whistle chain.
Ellen
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Hi ,
Could it be this cap badge ?
BADGE - Scotland - Caithness-shire Constabulary cap badge 1902 to 1930
https://www.flickr.com/photos/conner395/2300719826/in/album-72157628023732016/
ev
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Ellen, wearing his war ribbons & fancy frogging on the sleeve but No 14 is a very low number to be a Glasgow polis? don't recognise the badge. The Glasgow force was the oldest in Britain & traditionally manned by Hielan-men who never stood any nonsense, often single handed. ;D The police museum in Glasgow might be worth a try for his records.
http://www.policemuseum.org.uk/
Skoosh.
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If it's looking like it's Caithness (the badges do look similar), you could try contacting the Highland Archive Centre in Inverness. They hold some Northern Constabulary records, and should be able to tell you where records for Caithness are - they might be in Wick, at the archive centre there.
Their contact details are on their website at www.highlifehighland.com/highland-archive-centre/
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Ev - thanks, that really does look like the badge, which would fit with the time frame and location for James P Sutherland.
Skoosh - I thought too that No 14 would be a pretty low number for a Glasgow cop, although numbers were re-used. I know that because I spent some years in the police myself and was given a "second-hand" number :) It does look even more likely now that this chappie was in Caithness. I really need to try again and find some record of him having served in the forces during the war.
Thanks all for input so far. More welcome!
Ellen
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Thanks Archivos, will do that.
Ellen
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Ellen, just for reference, link to the Lanarkshire Police History archives www.glasgowlife.org.uk/libraries/the-mitchell-library/archives/collections/police-archives/Pages/default.aspx
Monica
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Thanks Monica.
It's looking increasingly likely that whoever the chappie in the photo is, that he belonged to the Caithness Constabulary, and Wick Archive Centre do appear to hold records of same, so since I live in Brora, a wee trip north also looks likely :-)
However, since the family also have another relative who served in Glasgow, I can pass on the Lanarkshire info to them to do the research themselves :-)
Cheers
Ellen
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Thanks Monica.
It's looking increasingly likely that whoever the chappie in the photo is, that he belonged to the Caithness Constabulary, and Wick Archive Centre do appear to hold records of same, so since I live in Brora, a wee trip north also looks likely :-)
However, since the family also have another relative who served in Glasgow, I can pass on the Lanarkshire info to them to do the research themselves :-)
Cheers
Ellen
Very handy! Glad there does seem to be something in Wick, so hopefully you'll be able to find out more when you visit.
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The badge & motto are for Sinclair so deffo Caithness.
Skoosh.
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Hello,
This may be your James Sutherland listed on the WW1 Medal Roll Index Cards 1914-1918.
Pte. James P Sutherland. R. Fus. Reg. No: GS/81599.
Awards: Victory Medal & British War Medal. Roll: TP/104 B31. Page:3887.
A little more information on the WW1 Service Medal & Award Rolls 1914-1920.
Pte. James Patrick Sutherland. 26/Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment) Reg. No:GS/81599.
Theatre of War: 1(a). 1/4/1918 - 11/3/1919.
Awards: British War Medal & Victory Medal.
Not sure what the 1(a) for Theatre of War means or whether the date 1/4/1918 is his enlistment date.
Regards, Dod.
Added. Code 1(a) may mean he disembarked in France on 1/4/1918. Lots of Rootschatters know a lot more about WW1 & Army Codes & will gladly help.
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The officer is definitely wearing police uniform, and the cap badge of the Caithness-shire Constabulary, but I can find NO record of any James P Sutherland having served in that force. Given the presence of medal ribbons, I reckon the photo relates to just post-WW1, when there was very little recruitment of regular officers. Number 14 would have (from his appointment date in 1920) been worn by PC Donald Beaton Cormack who went on to become an Inspector. It seems to be only after 1919 that officers were allocated a permanent number - seems as though numbers were changed before then to reflect seniority of service, and thus not recorded on official personnel records before then. From photos of the time, the number of the collar was usually prefixed by a letter "C" which is not apparent in the photo, so I wonder if the chap in the photo was actually a SPECIAL Constable - no records known to exist of these - in view of the mention that the Mr Sutherland was a printer to trade. So it could well have been him as a Special Constable (part-time unpaid auxiliary officer).
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Dave, I thought of you the other day when I saw this post ::) Great that you saw it :)
Monica
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Dave, I thought of you the other day when I saw this post ::) Great that you saw it :)
Monica
I received a "tip-off" :)
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Dave
Many thanks for that. My apologies for not acknowledging earlier, but I did not receive a notification of your posting.
I am with you in thinking that James may have been a Special. Now to try again to find a military record for him.
Thanks again.
Ellen
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Dod
My apologies, I have just noticed your post also! Thanks so much for that. I'll have a proper look at it all now.
Ellen