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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Leicestershire => England => Leicestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: ctrunfree on Sunday 06 November 16 11:48 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone
I'm wondering if anyone could assist in finding a marriage for Mary TAYLOR, b circa 1784. Her parents were Job TAYLOR and Eleanor, and they lived in Earl Shilton. She may have married someone called Ballieau (phonetic). Or not! And she may have also been called Eleanor!
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Familysearch has just 1 Mary Taylor marriage in Earl Shilton in the appropriate timeframe --
9 June 1814, Mary Taylor and Aaron Morley.
Can't see any Eleanor Taylor marriages listed.
Is this any help? Could it be her?
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Hi Annie
It's a little confusing. My 4 g grandfather Job TAYLOR (1750-bef 1812) and his wife Eleanor (surname unknown, died bef 1812) had four children all born in Earl Shilton who I believe survived infancy- Job (b 1775), Richard (b 1778, my 3g grandfather) James (b 1781) and Mary (b 1784).
What has thrown things up in the air is Job junior's will, which I recently found on Ancestry, and which I've had some help deciphering..
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=758842.0
This document suggests the existence of a sister for Job called Eleanor, but I can't find any reference to her birth or marriage. I was wondering if Mary could at some point have become called Eleanor? However, the 1814 marriage of Mary which you found suggests this is an unlikely explanation. However, Job's will seems to suggest that there is only one sister living.
I haven't been able to find a marriage for Job and his wife (Lucy?). Perhaps he was married to some Spanish beauty while on campaign in the Peninsular (maybe I've been reading too much Bernard Cornwell!
So, where is Eleanor TAYLOR hiding!
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1775 - 1784 is a timescale that would allow for the births of more than 4 children.
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Hi Annie
Yes, they had at least seven, not including the elusive Eleanor. Sarah (b 1773), Richard (b 1778) and Benjamin (b 1780) and did not live long.
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Hi
Job Taylor (bachelor) married Eleanor Heath (spinster) at Earl Shilton on 4th December 1771.
An Eleanor Taylor married Thomas Atkinson at St Mary, Hinckley on 21st December 1814.
Also an Eleanor Taylor (widow) married a Francis Tate at St Margaret Leicester on 29th October 1826 - Job's wife?
Do those help?
Regards
TB
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Hi
There is a marriage for a Job Taylor as follows
Earl Shilton 4 December 1771 by Banns
Job Taylor of this parish bachelor to Eleanor Heath of this parish spinster
Some others that looking into;
Kirkby Mallory 17 Feb 1822 by banns
Job Taylor of Earl Shilton to Elizabeth Jee of Earl Shilton
Kirky Mallory 18 April 1824 by Banns
Richard Taylor of Earl Shilton to Ann Lawrence
Earl Shilton 27 June 1815 by Banns
Richard Taylor of Earl Shilton bachelor to Rebecca Chesterton of this parish spinster
Kirky Mallory 5 March 1816 by Banns
Mary Taylor of Earl Shilton to John Lynes of Earl Shilton
Kirky Mallory 18 September 1817 by Banns
Mary Taylor of Earl Shilton to Thomas Queenborough of Earl Shilton
Kirky Mallory 11 May 1818 by Banns
Mary Taylor of Earl Shilton to James Toseland of Earl Shilton
Kirky Mallory 25 May 1820 by Banns
Mary Taylor of Earl Shilton to Thomas Maccartney of Earl Shilton.
Have looked for a marriage of an Eleanor Taylor to John Bailie from 1754-1837 in Leicestershire and sorry cannot find anything.
Bunnygirl
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Thanks Bunnygirl!
The Job TAYLOR/Eleanor HEATH marriage is great to see. I haven't been able to find definitive proof before, although I have seen it on people's family trees.
The Richard TAYLOR/Rebecca CHESTERTON marriage in Earl Shilton is interesting. I have my 3g grandfather Richard TAYLOR marrying Mary BRYAN on 23 May 1816 in Kirby Mallory (both were of Earl Shilton Parish). My 2g grandfather Joseph Taylor's christening has his mother as Mary, so I'm pretty sure that's right. However, there's always the possibility that Richard did marry Rebecca first and he remarried after she died. I'll have a look for a death of Rebecca TAYLOR death in 1815-16.
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Thanks Truebrit-missed you response just now.
The Job TAYLOR/Eleanor HEATH marriage is the father of the elusive Eleanor.
I don't think the other Eleanor's are Job snr's wife. She appears to be deceased in Nov 1812, going by her son Job's will of that date.
The other Eleanor TAYLOR marriages are probably not Job junior's sister. She was a married to a John Baillie by 1815.
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Hi
Yes looks like Richard did marry Rebecca Chesterton these are from the NBI
Earl Shilton St Simon & St Jude
Burial 31 October 1815 Rebecca Taylor age 20yrs
Burial 7 November 1815 Joseph Taylor aged 10days
So looks like Richard had his first son Joseph with Rebecca Chesterton who only lived for 10days
Hope this helps
Bunnygirl
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Bunnygirl
Wow, I didn't know that! Poor old Richard, he had a rough time. He got shot through the thigh when fighting the French in the Pyrenees. His brother died during the Peninsular campaign when serving with the Royal Artillery. He was probably looking for a quiet life when he was discharged in Nov 1814. I'm guessing that the dates suggest Rebecca was with child at the time of her wedding.
Can we tell if Richard is listed as a Widower at his marriage to Mary BRYAN (23 May 1816, Kirby Mallory)?
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Hi
On the disc I have it doesn't say that he was a widower but it also doesn't say he was a bachelor!!
Maybe the parish register or the banns could say something but you will need to look into that. Is this Richard Taylor the 1824 marriage to Ann Lawrence?
Bunnygirl
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Bunnygirl- no, my Richard was married to Mary BRYAN from 1816 until her death in 1849.
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Well, Eleanor the younger is a mystery - and I note that the will doesn't mention Mary!
One of my ancestors adopted her mother's first name after her mother's death, which made for lots of fun trying to find her ??? so maybe Mary did the same?
That still doesn't tell us where and when John Baillie m a Turner lass - and there are so many possible spellings of Baillie, that doesn't help either!
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Annie
I'm thinking that the most likely explanation is a situation like the one in your family, where the daughter takes on the mothers name. Not very sensitive to the future needs of family historians!
The BAILEY/BAILIE and TAYLOR marriage is indeed going to be hard to pin down.
It appears from the will that Job jnr's wife Lucy died some time between the will being made (Nov 1812) and it being finalised (25 Apr 1815). I'll go hunting for a death in this period.
I might see also if I can find any children of the 9 June 1814 marriage of Mary Taylor and Aaron Morley. If there's an Eleanor or a Job amongst them we might have the right lady!
EDIT: Given the time delay between a death in England reaching a husband in Portugal, I'll look for Lucy a bit earlier.
It also looks like the "Mary became Eleanor" theory is busted. The 1851 Census has an Aaron MORLEY living with his wife Mary in St Mary's Leicestershire. She was born in Earl Shilton so likely to be the same Mary. Oddly, she is not with Aaron in the 1841 Census.
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Hmm, there's a death registration at Leicester for a Job Morley in Q3 1871, aged 42. I can't find any birth record for him but if Mary was born in 1784 she might be a bit old to be his mother.
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The 1851 Mary Morley (with "Aron") was apparently 50 yo so not the one who was born in 1784.
I can't see Aaron or Mary in Welford cemetery, but Job Morley was buried 24 Sept 1871, age 42; address Lee St, St Mgt. He seems to have been buried in a common grave with no other Morleys.
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Ah yes, didn't do the maths! Back to the drawing board.
Job Jnr and Lucy I've now found both drowned coming back from Portugal after the war when their transport sank off Falmouth.
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Looking at census returns, there were several Job Taylors b in Earl Shilton over the years! I'm getting a bit lost as to who we're trying to follow and how we know that we've got the right family ---
One that has caught my eye is in Leicester in 1861: a Job Taylor age 37 (so b 1824), no place of birth given, but I can see him in 1851 and the pob was Ealr Shilton. His wife Eliza was also b Earl Shilton and they have a daughter Eleanor b Earl Shilton. This pair of names - Job and Eleanor - makes me wonder if this is another generation of the same family, and whether tracing them back might be any use ???
Edited -- I think this was son of Richard and Mary - maybe you already have this stuff.
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Sorry Annie, yes that was the son of Richard and Mary. All these families seem to be big, and they are keen on recycling christian names!
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The game's afoot, Watson!
This article
http://nmmc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Queen_Transport.pdf
has details about the wreck of the Queen, and the subsequent dispute about the will, and mentions Job (Jnr's) brother-in-law Thomas Stanford. So it seems it's a marriage of Eleanor Taylor and Thomas Stanford that I'm after.
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I've been following this post with interest. It looks as though you were right in the first place though and Eleanor's married name was Baillie:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ite/
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Ah yes, thanks for the reality check Jomot. :)
So, recapping.
The TAYLOR sisters remain a mystery. The first born Sarah died in infancy. I can only find birth/baptisms for Mary (baptised 21 Mar 1784, Earl Shilton). But there was possibly two more: Eleanor, who married John BAILLIE, and the wife of Thomas STANFORD, who advertised looking for the will as Job TAYLOR's brother in law (although he could have been the brother of his wife Lucy).
More work required I guess!
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That article the the shipwreck has Job and Lucy's marriage details and Lucy was apparently Diplock prior to being wed. So Thomas Stanford is prob not her brother (unless she was a widow when she married Job).
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Thomas Stanford married Ann Diplock at Lewes, Sussex in 1792, so presumably Ann & Lucy were sisters.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N6KZ-Y27
Image: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ith/
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Job & Lucy's marriage at St Nicholas, Brighton - main left column, about 1/4 of the way down:
4th [November 1803] Job Taylor of the Parish of Woolwich Bachelor & Lucy Diplock of this parish Spinster by Banns.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01iti/
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A quick thought about Eleanor -- The will was written in 1812 and simply refers to her as Job's sister Eleanor. Probate was issued in 1815 and refers to her as Eleanor Taylor, with the Taylor crossed out and Baillie written afterwards.
So I wonder if she married between those two dates?
I also wonder what the chances are that "sister" might have been used flexibly, just as we would not nowadays consider Thomas Stanford (the husband of Job's wife's sister) to be bro-in-law to Job?
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Thanks Jomot and Annie
The additional information you've flagged suggests we are back to looking for a missing sister for Job.
Annie- I've checked with my better half, who says that by the 'rules' in her family Thomas and Job would be B-I-Ls! :)
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Kirky Mallory 5 March 1816 by Banns
Mary Taylor of Earl Shilton to John Lynes of Earl Shilton
Kirky Mallory 18 September 1817 by Banns
Mary Taylor of Earl Shilton to Thomas Queenborough of Earl Shilton
Kirky Mallory 11 May 1818 by Banns
Mary Taylor of Earl Shilton to James Toseland of Earl Shilton
Kirky Mallory 25 May 1820 by Banns
Mary Taylor of Earl Shilton to Thomas Maccartney of Earl Shilton.
Bunnygirl
Thought I'd try to match up Mary from Earl Shilton with Bunnygirl's post. Looking t 1851, Mary Queenborough is in Earl Shilton with husband Thomas and her yob was around 1782. This yob is the same for her in 1861. So she's a possible for Job's daughter Mary.
In 1861 I can see Mary and John Lynes (Lines) but Mary's yob suggested as 1804 (so either it's not the right Mary or the age is wrong or she was extremely young when she married!)
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Obviously connected to the dispute over the will, but I wonder if this would provide any more information about John Baillie & Eleanor?
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9087688
Also wondered if this could be a possibility for him as it also mentions the Royal Artillery and transferring to the Gunners & Drivers (in 1802 Job transferred from the Royal Horse Artillery to the Gunners & Drivers):
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14451093
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Obviously connected to the dispute over the will, but I wonder if this would provide any more information about John Baillie & Eleanor?
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9087688
Also wondered if this could be a possibility for him as it also mentions the Royal Artillery and transferring to the Gunners & Drivers (in 1802 Job transferred from the Royal Horse Artillery to the Gunners & Drivers):
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14451093
Well done you!
I think it's very feasible that John Baillie was a fellow soldier in the Artillery. (Although googling Gerbles in L(a)narkshire only gives me lots of interesting offers to buy small hamster like creatures from people in Scotland. :)
I'm planning to go to the State Library of Victoria today so will see if this WO record is available there
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Kirky Mallory 5 March 1816 by Banns
Mary Taylor of Earl Shilton to John Lynes of Earl Shilton
Kirky Mallory 18 September 1817 by Banns
Mary Taylor of Earl Shilton to Thomas Queenborough of Earl Shilton
Kirky Mallory 11 May 1818 by Banns
Mary Taylor of Earl Shilton to James Toseland of Earl Shilton
Kirky Mallory 25 May 1820 by Banns
Mary Taylor of Earl Shilton to Thomas Maccartney of Earl Shilton.
Bunnygirl
Thought I'd try to match up Mary from Earl Shilton with Bunnygirl's post. Looking t 1851, Mary Queenborough is in Earl Shilton with husband Thomas and her yob was around 1782. This yob is the same for her in 1861. So she's a possible for Job's daughter Mary.
In 1861 I can see Mary and John Lynes (Lines) but Mary's yob suggested as 1804 (so either it's not the right Mary or the age is wrong or she was extremely young when she married!)
Thanks Annie! I take it there's no sign of the people in the other two marriages by 1851.
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googling Gerbles in L(a)narkshire only gives me lots of interesting offers to buy small hamster like creatures from people in Scotland. :)
That made me quite literally laugh out loud ! ;D ;D ;D
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I suspect you might have more luck with Gorbals 8)
ps Good find Jomot!
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Unfortunately the State Library of Victoria holdings of WO records only covers Regiments which came to Australia, and only for their periods of service here, which I suppose makes sense.
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The Chancery record may state where John & Eleanor were living in 1815, which may in turn provide a clue as to where they married, but as its the Bill only I'm not sure to what extent those details are included as I've never ordered one. I'm sure others will have though so its worth asking for advice.
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I just went to my option of last resort: other people's trees on Ancestry. Someone there has Eleanor married to John BAILLIE, with births in Marleybone, Middlesex. There are two children born to John and Eleanor BAILLIE there in 1812 and 1816.
Job's brother Richard was at one point in the East Middlesex Militia, so maybe there's a family link to the area?
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Since John Baillie seems to have been from Scotland, I wonder if it's worth asking on the Scottish board to see if there's any trace of John and Eleanor in the 1841/51 censuses?
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I just went to my option of last resort: other people's trees on Ancestry. Someone there has Eleanor married to John BAILLIE, with a birth in Marleybone, Middlesex in 1791. They do have "guess" next to the entry however! There are two children born to John and Eleanor BAILLIE there in 1812 and 1816, however.
Including Job Taylor Baillie born 4 Dec 1811 & baptised 17 May 1812, which would seem pretty conclusive! On Eleanor's baptism John Baillie is described as a Victualler.
There is another John Baillie baptising in St Marylebone around the same time though & married to Elizabeth Jarrett Baillie - their daughter Rosa was baptised 13 Oct 1815.
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Well it looks like Job Taylor Baillie stayed in the London area until at least 1830:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01itt/
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Oh no! Another miscreant in the family (he's got company!)
Surely these can't all be the same man
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01iu4/
Some more thoughts on Mary. My initial thoughts regarding Job jnr's will (written in Nov 1812, which mentioned and left money to his sister Eleanor, but not Mary) was that maybe Mary was married (and therefore provided for) and Eleanor was not. But if Eleanor and John are having children in late 1811, that theory doesn't hold water. Was Mary already dead, perhaps?
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Oh no! Another miscreant in the family
Ah, but he said he didn't do it ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Ctunfree
Working my way through this post with interest. If my research is correct, Job Taylor is my 5th GDad! Not entirely sure my tree is correct though. Alice Maud Swinfield is definitely my GMa, her parents were Hannah Queensborough and Charles Swinfield. Charles mother Mary Swinfield appears to have 4 illegitimate kids (Charles, Jane, Eliza & Sarah) plus 2 with a chap called George Moore. She also appears to have been married to a John Foster, but I digress. I am a bit confused over Hannah as I have her as the daughter of Michael Queensborough and "Elizabeth", yet others suggest she wasn't Michaels daughter. I have Michael as the son of Mary Taylor (b.1782 in Earl Shilton) and Thomas Queenborough (b.1783). Sorting out this branch is my challenge for the next 6 months!
Cheers and all the best Sian (nee Bowler)