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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Eltrick on Sunday 24 July 05 20:05 BST (UK)

Title: 1891 census Rotherham
Post by: Eltrick on Sunday 24 July 05 20:05 BST (UK)
Looking for the Baud family of Rotherham.Head was Pryce Baud born in Nothamptonshire 1836.Would appreciate all Bauds in this census.Its a very uncommon name and some of the children would be married.Pryce and his son Benjamin Thomas were listed as Gardeners.In 1882 a Wedding Reception was given for the son with 200 guests at the Hall.Does anyone know which this would be?
Thank You
Audrey
Title: Re: 1891 census Rotherham
Post by: julianb on Sunday 24 July 05 20:42 BST (UK)
Here we go for 1891 census:

7 Hollowgate, Rotherham

Baud, Pryce Born abt 1836 Silverstone, Northamptonshire; Head/Widower; Gardener 
Baud, Clara Born abt 1873 Rotherham; Housekeeper
Baud, Frederick J D Born abt 1876 Rotherham; Iron Moulder
Baud, Pamela (or Pomela?) Born abt 1879 Rotherham;
Baud, James Born abt 1882 Rotherham;   

No Benjamin Thomas here, so I'll have a bit more of a look for him.

JULIAN
Title: Re: 1891 census Rotherham
Post by: Eltrick on Sunday 24 July 05 20:51 BST (UK)
Thank you fpr this.Benjamin had emigrated by 1891 .The address might let me see if there was a big estate nearby.
Thank you
Audrey
Title: Re: 1891 census Rotherham
Post by: julianb on Sunday 24 July 05 22:34 BST (UK)
Audrey

Apologies I missed two younger children off the 1891 census (they were on the next sheet):

1891 errata:

Baud, Ernest; Born abt 1884 Rotherham
Baud, John; Born abt 1883 Rotherham

Pryce appeared to have died in 1900:

Deaths - Baud, Pryce; Age 64 ; 1st Quarter; 1900; Rotherham  Volume 9c Page 513

They were in Whiston, near Rotherham, in 1881. 

You can read all about Whiston here http://www.whistonweb.co.uk/heritage/index.htm. There's lots of information on this site about the area and its history, including references to the larger houses (but see cautionary note at the end)

They were captured as Band on the 1881 census (apologies if you know this already - but I felt if you had you would have flagged up the different potential spellings in the original post):

Whiston, Yorkshire

Pryce Band; Born abt 1837  Sisson, Northamptonshire; HeadGardener
Ann Band; Born abt 1843  Ratley, Buckinghamshire;  Wife 
Thomas Band; Born abt 1862  Sisson, Northamptonshire;  Gardener
Pryce Band; Born abt 1867  Sisson, Northamptonshire;
Emily Band; Born abt 1869  Sisson, Northamptonshire;
Andrew Band; Born abt 1871  Sisson, Northamptonshire;
Clara Band; Born abt 1873  Rotherham;
Fredk. J. Band; Born abt 1877  Rotherham;
James Band; Born abt 1880  Whiston, Yorkshire
P [no full first name given] Band; Born abt 1879  Whiston, Yorkshire; (Daughter)

I couldn't find any entries in Yorkshire Trade Directories for Pryce Baud.

They were transcribed as Bands in 1871 too:

1871 – West End, Silverstone  Northamptonshire 
 
Price Band; Born abt 1837  Silverstone; Head; Nurseryman
Ann Band; Born  abt 1841  (indististinct); Wife  
Thomas Band; Born abt 1862  Silverstone
Mary Ann Band; Born abt 1866  Silverstone
Price Band; Born abt 1868  Silverstone
Emily Band; Born abt 1870  Silverstone


I did find the 1861 census though with an even different name:

1861 – West End, Silverstone  Northamptonshire   

Benjamin Bard; Born abt 1794  Silverstone; Head  Nurseryman
Mary Bard; Born abt 1795  Silverstone; Wife  Lacemaker
Price Bard; Born abt 1836  Silverstone; Son  Nurseryman
John Bard; Born abt 1854  Silverstone; Grandson 

I assume John is not Pryce's!  Pryce is shown as single on this census.

There appear to be lots of births and deaths (and marriages) of Bauds (and variants) in Rotherham registration District from the 1870s onwards; eg Annie Baud D 1884 Rotherham Q4 Age 42.  You can try Free BMD or view these on Ancestry.co.uk without paying.

However the marriage of Thomas Benjamin Baud in 1882, Quarter 2, was in Sheffield Registration District, and not Rotherham.  Now Whiston is not far from Sheffield and it would not be that long a pony and trap ride down to Handsworth or Woodhouse, which I believe are in the Sheffield Registration District, but it does make your search for big houses more difficult.   The only big place that springs to mind is Aston Hall (probably about 3 miles away from Whiston). 

There might be a connection between the bride and a big house, so that might be an avenue worth pursuing.  It looks like he married  Emma Hallatt or  Harriet Stenton (but don't count on it).  The wedding registration is Sheffield Volume 9c Page 587.

Good luck and I hope all this is helpful.

JULIAN
Title: Re: 1891 census Rotherham
Post by: Eltrick on Monday 25 July 05 14:56 BST (UK)
Julian
Thank you so much for this very useful information.I hadnt seen the last corruption of the name before hence I couldnt find the 1871 census.Its as well they had a Pryce amongst the children ortherwise there would have been no certainty of the right family.
I checked the Whiston site and thought the Wincobank Hall seemed a possibility.There is a tenuous link in that the one time owners Read's also came from Northampton.There is even a list of sevants but this stops short at 1840 before the Baud's came to Sheffield.I've yet to check Aston Hall.
I'm sure the Wedding Reception would have been held at the employers expense,both Benjamin Thomas and Harriet Stenton[my gt Aunt] were working class people,Harriet a domestic servant probably at the same place.They actually married at Sheffield Parish Church and both gave their address as Carlisle St East.
Just out of interest they emigrated to Canada moved to Montreal and settled eventually in Maine USA and there is now a Baud dynasty in the N ew England States.Their gt Granddaughter is also researching and I was fortunate to visit them 2 years ago for a family reunion
Once again thank you so much for your help
Best Wishes
Audrey
P.S.Another corruption Bawd!!!
Title: Re: 1891 census Rotherham
Post by: drbaud on Tuesday 31 December 24 01:06 GMT (UK)
If anyone is still monitoring this, I'm interested in Price Baud's parent and grandparents. Price Baud (1835-1900) and his wife Ann Jeffs Baud (1843-1884) were my great-grandfather's (Benjamin Thomas baud, Sr) parents. Any info on any relations appreciated.
Title: Re: 1891 census Rotherham
Post by: amondg on Tuesday 31 December 24 08:52 GMT (UK)
Father
Benjamin Baud married Mary Clarke 23 October 1823 at Whittlebury, both were of the parish of Silverstone.
Witness Samuel Baud and John Jones.

Children found so far.
John bap 9 June 1824 at Whittlebury
Benjamin bap.16 April 1826 at Silverstone
Farmer  bap. 2 March 1828 Silverstone
Andrew bap. 25 April 1830 Whittlebury
Pamela bap, 11 February 1833 Silverstone
Rose bap. 4 June 1837 Silverstone
Pryce bap. 8 February 1835 Silverstone

Father Benjamin listed as a Nursery Man
Title: Re: 1891 census Rotherham
Post by: MollyC on Tuesday 31 December 24 09:51 GMT (UK)
Not relations, but context:  Hollowgate was then on the southern edge of Rotherham, near several large houses on Moorgate, leading towards Whiston, including Moorgate Hall.  The Whiston boundary was moved outwards twice. At that time Oakwood Hall, Moorgate, was in Whiston.  (It is now admin. offices within Rotherham Hospital.) 
Carlisle Street East is in Sheffield's industrial east end.  Possibly Thomas moved there for employment.

Added: map c1901 (hospital on this now demolished):  https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=14.0&lat=53.41876&lon=-1.34398&layers=6&b=ESRIWorld&o=100
Title: Re: 1891 census Rotherham
Post by: drbaud on Tuesday 31 December 24 17:39 GMT (UK)
Thanks. So many Bauds with the same names. So, I have Price (Pryce?) Baud married to Ann Jeffs with following offspring: Benjamin Thomas Baud (1861-1945) who along with his wife (Harriet Stenton, 1861-1941) migrated to Quebec, Canada and then to the US. Pamela (1864-1865), Mary Ann (1866-1940), Pryce (1868), Emily (1870), Andrew (1872), Arthur Lee (1872), Clara (1873), Frederick (1876), James (1879-1970), John (1882), Ernest (1883-1969). Are these actually all siblings?
Price's parents Benjamin Baud (1793-1870) and Mary Clark (1795). Benjamin Baud's sibling: Samuel Baud (1801-1881), Alice (1795-1829), Elizabeth (?). Benjamin's parents: John Baud 1769-1816), Ann Pinfold (1769-1827). Can anyone add to this? Make corrections?
Title: Re: 1891 census Rotherham
Post by: MollyC on Tuesday 31 December 24 22:58 GMT (UK)
I have now worked right through it - I think!  Using FreeBMD to get the surname spellings and the GRO index to check the mother's maiden name.  14 births with 2 infant deaths.  Not all quite in the order you had.  Spellings in Northants were all BAWD or BAND except one.  Spellings in Rotherham were all BAUD - except one.

From FreeBMD the marriage is:
BAWD, Price and JEFFS, Ann, BUCKINGHAM vol 3a page 673 SepQ 1861

From the GRO index 14 births & 2 deaths:
BAND, BENJAMIN  THOMAS     JEFFS 
GRO Reference: 1862  S Quarter in TOWCESTER  Volume 03B  Page 13

BAND, PAMELA       JEFFS 
GRO Reference: 1864  S Quarter in TOWCESTER  Volume 03B  Page 14

BAUD, MARY  ANN     JEFFS 
GRO Reference: 1866  D Quarter in TOWCESTER  Volume 03B  Page 16

BAWD, PRYCE       JEFFS 
GRO Reference: 1868  S Quarter in TOWCESTER  Volume 03B  Page 18

BAWD, EMILY       JEFFS 
GRO Reference: 1870  S Quarter in TOWCESTER  Volume 03B  Page 17

BAWD, ANDREW    JEFFS 
GRO Reference: 1872  M Quarter in TOWCESTER  Volume 03B  Page 11

BAUD, FRED       JEFFS 
GRO Reference: 1874  M Quarter in ROTHERHAM  Volume 09C  Page 590

BAUD, FREDERICK       age at death: 1 
GRO Reference: 1875  M Quarter in ROTHERHAM  Volume 09C  Page 407

BAUD, CLARA       JEFFS 
GRO Reference: 1875  M Quarter in ROTHERHAM  Volume 09C  Page 597

BAUD, FREDERICK  JAMES     JEFFS 
GRO Reference: 1876  J Quarter in ROTHERHAM  Volume 09C  Page 635

BAUD, JOHN       JEFFS 
GRO Reference: 1877  S Quarter in ROTHERHAM  Volume 09C  Page 604

BAUD, JOHN       age at death: 1 
GRO Reference: 1878  D Quarter in ROTHERHAM  Volume 09C  Page 412

BAUD, PAMELA       JEFFS 
GRO Reference: 1878  D Quarter in ROTHERHAM  Volume 09C  Page 625

BAUD, JAMES       JEFFS 
GRO Reference: 1880  S Quarter in ROTHERHAM  Volume 09C  Page 602

BAUD, ROSE       JEFFS 
GRO Reference: 1881  S Quarter in ROTHERHAM  Volume 09C  Page 587

BAND, ERNEST       JEFFS 
GRO Reference: 1884  M Quarter in ROTHERHAM  Volume 09C  Page 612
Title: Re: 1891 census Rotherham
Post by: drbaud on Wednesday 01 January 25 01:29 GMT (UK)
MollyC, you're amazing. I was never sure when it came to the spelling of the last name if Band and so on were actually just misspellings or completely different families. I understand though, decades ago when I graduated from a language school in Da Nang I was asked 2-3 times how my name was spelled, and it still ended up being spelled wrong. So, the Ben Thomas Band is actually BT Baud, my great-grandfather. Came across his Alien Registration form from 1940. Apparently neither he nor his wife became US citizens. Also copy of newspaper clipping from 1932 noting their 50th anniversary. If anyone is interested I can post photo and clipping - if I can figure out how to do it.

Question - how common was it to have 2 children with the same name? One died young and years later another was named with the, at least, same first name - Pamela. Much thanks for you help.
Title: Re: 1891 census Rotherham
Post by: MollyC on Wednesday 01 January 25 09:03 GMT (UK)
Glad you liked that! The exercise is using both indexes to their best advantage.  FreeBMD allows wildcard searches eg BA?D which GRO does not.  But GRO contains MMNs before 1912, which FreeBMD does not.

I am going to revise an exception and say FreeBMD has:
BAND, Mary A   Towcester 3b 16       DecQ 1866
so we cannot say which is the correct registration.  I have not checked throughout for deaths, so if anyone goes missing in your lists...  However I did notice

BAUD, ANNIE       age at death: 42 
GRO Reference: 1884  D Quarter in ROTHERHAM  Volume 09C  Page 392
If this is Ann then cause of death was probably exhaustion! 
It was not unusual to re-use the name of a dead child.
Also - added:
BAUD, PAMELA       age at death: 1 
GRO Reference: 1865  D Quarter in TOWCESTER  Volume 03B  Page 10
Title: Re: 1891 census Rotherham
Post by: julianb on Wednesday 01 January 25 13:05 GMT (UK)
Not relations, but context:  Hollowgate was then on the southern edge of Rotherham, near several large houses on Moorgate, leading towards Whiston, including Moorgate Hall.  The Whiston boundary was moved outwards twice. At that time Oakwood Hall, Moorgate, was in Whiston.  (It is now admin. offices within Rotherham Hospital.) 
Carlisle Street East is in Sheffield's industrial east end.  Possibly Thomas moved there for employment.

Added: map c1901 (hospital on this now demolished):  https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=14.0&lat=53.41876&lon=-1.34398&layers=6&b=ESRIWorld&o=100

I have been awoken from my New Year hangover by e-mail alerts on this thread, and noticed the original question wasn't completely answered.

The marriage of Benjamin Thomas Baud to Harriett Stenton took place in 1882 at Sheffield Parish Church (now Cathedral) on the aptly-named Church Street.  This brings into play a lot more "Halls" for the reception which was mentioned by Eltrick in the initial post of the thread.  In particular the https://cutlershall.co.uk/   (https://cutlershall.co.uk/) is directly opposite on the other side of the road to the main church entrance, though I am sure even back then there might have been cheaper options available!  Both parties had given their address as Carlisle Street which is at the bottom (city) end of the Burngreave area (Carlisle Street East further extends northeastwards to Grimesthorpe, past a number of now-defunt Iron & Steel works)
Title: Re: 1891 census Rotherham
Post by: MollyC on Wednesday 01 January 25 18:15 GMT (UK)
The Cutler's Hall had crossed my mind, but as you say a bit grand.  I take your point about Carlisle St/Carlisle St. E., if that is the correct version.  Plenty of factories there at the time.  I was really thinking about where Price Baud was working the previous year, in 1881, somewhere in the Whiston part of Moorgate.  It would be interesting to look at named properties and owners either side of his house to see where it fitted into the road.
Title: Re: 1891 census Rotherham
Post by: drbaud on Thursday 02 January 25 14:28 GMT (UK)
MollyC, Thanks for your help. I agree, Looks like Annie is Ann Jeffs Baud, mother of 13-14 offspring. I'd say she was just worn out.
Title: Re: 1891 census Rotherham
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 02 January 25 14:58 GMT (UK)

Also posted on USA for info.....................