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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: samfisher on Wednesday 02 November 16 15:47 GMT (UK)

Title: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: samfisher on Wednesday 02 November 16 15:47 GMT (UK)
Hello all, I've recently started to trace my paternal grandmothers side of the family and found a record in the 1911 census with my great grandfather as 'head' of the family.. as far as I knew he was born in Bradford, a small district of Manchester , however his birthplace is stated as 'nr settlement, singapore' in 1880... wondering if anyone had a clue what the nr represents and what circumstance might lead him to be born there in this time period as I've got records of his own father being born in manchester as well

I'd really appreciate any input or advice, thanks to all
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: Girl Guide on Wednesday 02 November 16 16:12 GMT (UK)
nr usually means near. Does the birthplace of Singapore appear in any other census records?

Are you willing to share his name so us Rootschatters can have a look?
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 02 November 16 16:17 GMT (UK)
Are you sure it says Nr and not Sts (Straits)   :-\
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: samfisher on Wednesday 02 November 16 16:25 GMT (UK)
His name is Jonathan broadhurst,   but I can't find any other reference to Singapore so it's really thrown me

 I only just found out that his son Jonathan junior, my grandmothers brother had the middle name of 'cleveland' .. so there are more questions than answers with him at the minute
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 02 November 16 16:28 GMT (UK)
Did he marry Catherine Walsh

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNRT-TX7
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: samfisher on Wednesday 02 November 16 16:35 GMT (UK)
Yes,  that's him!
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: avm228 on Wednesday 02 November 16 16:37 GMT (UK)
Jonathan senior also appears to have had the Cleveland middle name, according to the free 1911 index.

Birthplace is Singapore Sts Settlements (as previously suggested - short for Straits Settlements).
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: samfisher on Wednesday 02 November 16 16:41 GMT (UK)
I'm not sure I've heard of Singapore straits, what does that refer to? 
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: avm228 on Wednesday 02 November 16 16:44 GMT (UK)
The Straits Settlements at the relevant time were Singapore, Malacca, Dinding & Penang - held as a combined Crown Colony from 1867 until the 1940s.

The 1911 entry you've found suggests that, of the four settlements, he was born in Singapore.
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: samfisher on Wednesday 02 November 16 16:49 GMT (UK)
Do you know what circumstances would lead to him being born there in 1880?
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: avm228 on Wednesday 02 November 16 16:51 GMT (UK)
His parents being there is the usual one  :)  Careers which took people out there would have included the military, the colonial civil service, anything to do with plantations etc. Or other trade links.
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: avm228 on Wednesday 02 November 16 17:10 GMT (UK)
On the other hand, as you say, everything else points to his being a labourer/collier's son from Bradford, Lancs - birth registered in Prestwich district Sep qtr 1879.

An online tree suggests he'd served in the Boer War - is that right?  Perhaps if so he had mingled with people who had travelled far and wide, and invented a bit of a fantasy (and a mysterious middle name) to impress his bride?
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: samfisher on Wednesday 02 November 16 19:40 GMT (UK)
Haha it might well be something like that .. i'd heard through family that he was in the boer war .. where did you find the online tree?
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: Christine53 on Wednesday 02 November 16 20:21 GMT (UK)
His service record is on FindMyPast. He served in the Manchester Regiment 1897-1908 , including service in the Boer War. He was in Singapore 11.3.03. - 29.12.04.
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: ShaunJ on Wednesday 02 November 16 20:29 GMT (UK)
His army record on FindMyPast (Manchester Regiment 1897-1909) says he was born in the parish of Bradford, Manchester. Maybe he spun his wife a yarn about being born in Singapore !


Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: samfisher on Wednesday 02 November 16 22:25 GMT (UK)
Haha it does sound like it.. I've heard he had quite a sense of humour so it'd fit that characteristic quite well..
I'm not a member of find my past so I can't view that record,  doesn't show up on ancestry but I'd like to view it, is there a lot of informational to see on his boer war campaign?
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: ShaunJ on Thursday 03 November 16 08:52 GMT (UK)
If you have Ancestry look for J Broadhurst regimental number 5065 in "UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls"
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: dtcoulson on Thursday 03 November 16 10:06 GMT (UK)
I'm going to add to this conversation, not as a wise genealogist but as someone who has spent a fair bit of time in Singapore.

I would be inclined to think that your Gt granddad's birth in Bradford may be the thing he lied about, rather than a birth overseas. If he was keen to get into the army, he may have omitted the Singapore birth because it could raise a whole lot of questions he'd rather not waste time answering.

If his dad was a collier then the dad may have been a stoker on a ship at some stage. Alternatively the dad might have served in the army too, and been stationed in SG for a while.

SG was absolutely booming economically in the 1880s so a strong British presence there was desirable. That could mean military, shipping etc.

Modern Singapore has been collecting birth, marriage and death data for some time now. It also has a growing genealogist community. I'd like to suggest you send an email off to Singapore's National Library for advice on who specifically to correspond with. Either that or use Google to track down the registry of births or whatever they call it there. You may be pleasantly surprised by what you find.

-David C
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: ShaunJ on Thursday 03 November 16 10:57 GMT (UK)
Quote
I would be inclined to think that your Gt granddad's birth in Bradford may be the thing he lied about

That's an odd position to take. His birth was registered in Prestwich Registration District in 1879: he was born in Bradford per the 1881 and 1891 censuses.
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: dtcoulson on Saturday 05 November 16 06:47 GMT (UK)
touche    ;)

-DC
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: samfisher on Saturday 05 November 16 12:59 GMT (UK)
Thanks to all for contributions and inputs, very much appreciated
Title: Re: birthplace. .. Nr Singapore settlement?
Post by: Geoff-E on Wednesday 09 November 16 16:44 GMT (UK)
Do you know what circumstances would lead to him being born there in 1880?

His parents being there is the usual one  :) 

Especially his mother.