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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: cazza59 on Thursday 27 October 16 11:21 BST (UK)
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Could be a needle in a haystack or very easy, but I thought it worth a shot because of the bridge.
Caz
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First suggestion: The Orkney Islands somewhere
But what would be the purpose of the foot bridge? Could it be for military purposes?
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My first thought was Towan Beach, Newquay, Cornwall?
But there's a house on the rock there!
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It could be where an Anti Submarine Net ( boom) was installed on one of the entrances to Scapa Flow
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First suggestion: The Orkney Islands somewhere
But what would be the purpose of the foot bridge? Could it be for military purposes?
Tourism. Note the path.
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From a different angle, but could this be it?
http://picclick.co.uk/PORTH-The-Bridge-Island-Cliffs-Rocks-Beach-Old-381808596601.html#&gid=1&pid=1
Yorkslass
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I really don't know Yorkslass - I think you can walk under Porth bridge on the beach, but on Cazza's photo I can't see the gap (but I don't know if that is due to the angle of the photo or not :-\)
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Just been looking at "Porth Bridge" images, can't find one from the same angle but everyone I can see, Porth Bridge looks lower than the one in the WAI, and the mainland looks quite close to the bridge in the WAI. Of course, could just be the angle of the photo. Would seem odd to have more than one bridge like this though. Sitting on the fence at the moment. ???
Caz
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Could it be Hoxxa to Flotta. Or Lyness?
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Yes, you're right - it doesn't look as though you could walk under it, does it.
There's another similar one at Newquay, but again the rocks aren't so close beneath it.
Yorkslass
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There is nothing visible on the coastline to identify the area, then I realised it must be Loch Ness because the monster is there. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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;D ;D ;D Well spotted Pat! Wish my eyesight was that good! :D
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A shot in the dark, how about the Groudle Glenn headland on the Isle of Man where the zoo used to be.
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I think that the structure is a pipe and NOT a bridge
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Is it a wall on either side of the bridge?
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It's really odd...it may not be a bridge. A bridge for what purpose?
Wish we had some idea of scale.
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It could be for carrying. Oil, fresh water, electricity, Telephone cables, drain water
If you look to the other side of the water, you can see something that could be. The. Pipe arriving on the other shore.
That's why I proposed the Orkneys as a group of islands with short "sounds" between them
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Is that a man hanging off the rock on the right end of the bridge? ;)
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It could be for carrying. Oil, fresh water, electricity, Telephone cables, drain water
Not entirely sure why it would be carrying electricity or telephone cables to an uninhabited rock :P
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Could there have been a lighthouse there at one time i.e. bridge to gain access?
Annie
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Looks to me like a wall around the rocks to the right?
Path must be behind the wall, at the same level as the lower part of the bridge?
Handrails (or cables or ropes) at the top. There are a series of 2 struts/stays.
A pipe?! That's the craziest suggestion I've heard in a long time! ;D ;D
P.S. I don't see any connection to Groudle Glen?!
(But I've been wrong before!)
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One other possibility is that it could be the Menai Straits
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Surely a pipe would be round, not the shape this one is at the bottom?
Scouse Boy, I do wish that you would give links rather than wild guesses. That way we wont waste time hunting. It certainly isn't the Menai Bridge!
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It could be for carrying. Oil, fresh water, electricity, Telephone cables, drain water
Not entirely sure why it would be carrying electricity or telephone cables to an uninhabited rock :P
. Underwater cables to take the power or phones over to the adjacent mainland or other islands
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It could be for carrying. Oil, fresh water, electricity, Telephone cables, drain water
If you look to the other side of the water, you can see something that could be. The. Pipe arriving on the other shore.
That's why I proposed the Orkneys as a group of islands with short "sounds" between them
I noticed you'd edited more 'ideas' into reply #16 :-X
Why would a pipeline start at the top of a cliff? Can you post a snip from the photo to show where the pipeline arrives at the other shore?
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At the. Bottom of the photo are things which could be part of a boat
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Could there have been a lighthouse there at one time i.e. bridge to gain access?
Annie
good suggestion, but more likely to be small navigation lights than a big lighthouse
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It looks like there has been a landslide on the far shore.
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I was just about to say the same Geoff-E.Doesn't look like the Jurassic Coast in Dorset,but might be worth a look.I wonder how old the photo is ,as there doesn't seem to be any regeneration.
Regards
Roger
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If anyone could identify the type of rock, that would rule out a lot of places.
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It looks like there has been a landslide on the far shore.
Well observed..
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The area on the middle left shoreline of this view by Newquay(as per Yorklass) seems to have the dark "cavelike" features and a landslip as per the original.
http://www.intocornwall.com/photogallery/photos/246_xl.jpg
(modified)
Regards
Roger
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There are some similarities with the bridge at Porth, but I really don't think it is the right one
http://www.francisfrith.com/porth/porth-the-bridge-to-porth-island-c1960_p78079
http://www.francisfrith.com/porth/porth-bridge-to-the-headland-c1965_p78103
http://www.francisfrith.com/porth/porth-the-bridge-and-island-c1955_p78007
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Neither do I really, but it looks a bit more like it in 1899.
Though I think Caz's photo is later than that
https://www.francisfrith.com/newquay/newquay-porth-bridge-1899_43183
Yorkslass
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Somebody has gone to a lot of effort to build a path to this bridge to nowhere. It has a (dry?) stone wall either side of it. It is well built and the top of the wall is capped.
There are rocks very similar on the Pembrokeshire coast. It is difficult to tell in black & white but they could be granite rocks..
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I would say it is almost certainly a bridge and not a pipeline etc. Pipes or cables entering the sea are exposed to massive forces from the waves, so the engineers will usually look for a nice sandy cove where the pipe/cable will be protected by a sandy cover (like at Porthcurno). If that isn't available then the usual approach would be to dig a vertical shaft near the clifftop and then a horizontal tunnel into the sea below the level where wave action is a problem. It would make no sense to carry the cable/pipe on an exposed bridge and then down the side of an exposed rocky headland.
I would go with DavidG02's idea of it being tourist related. I cannot see much of a path on the seaward side, so my guess is the bridge may be the attraction itself (for tourists to stare down into the 'chasm' below), or else that the outcrop has some special meaning and standing on it formed part of a pilgrimage. (like this is where 'X' threw themselves to their death).
The stone walls at either end are partly what bridge engineers call abutments - providing foundations for the ends of the bridge and a safe flat surface for users to transition from the bridge to land. The walls also stop people falling over the edge!
In terms of the rocks, the 'layering' (stratification) of those in the foreground suggests (although not conclusively) they are sedimentary in origin, which might help pin the location down. Somewhere along the Jurassic Coast perhaps?
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Agree with Nick_Ips that the rock strata suggest a sedimentary rock. The nature of the cliffs suggests to me it is more likely to be a kind of sandstone rather than limestone and, therefore, do not think it is the Jurassic Coast.
William
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Unfortunately being sedimentary rock on the UK coastline doesn't help narrow it down much, this helpful map suggests any location except Southeast England!
http://www.open.edu/openlearn/science-maths-technology/science/geology/uk-rocks-region
I could be wrong but I thought the Jurassic Coast had some amazing sandstones?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurassic_Coast
I'd agree that the darker colours would point towards sandstone.
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Could it be St Catherine's Island, Tenby?
Taken from the opposite way round to this pic:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/graphicreality/819161698/
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Gosh, Liz, that could be it. :-\ Struggling to find close ups of the bridge though......
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Seems a good match. No exact pictures, but there's a close-up (wrong side again) from an urban explorer at http://www.derelictplaces.co.uk/main/military-sites/3726-st-catherines-fort-tenby-wales.html#.WBJEb8m9nfY
Also one on Britain from Above - http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/waw039189?name=Tenby&gazetteer=Tenby&COMMUNITY=Tenby&ref=25 - a better angle, but not a close-up.
Arthur
EDIT: see my next post
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http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3842386
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Let me see if I am reading this right - the photo would have been taken with the photographer's back to the fort, so then they are almost facing Tenby. Would Tenby, in whatever date the photo was taken, have been so quiet?
https://goo.gl/uEMvKb
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... but the rock strata on Cazza's pic are almost horizontal, on Arthur's they are vertical :(
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I'm beginning to have doubts about St Catherine's Island - as others evidently are who posted while I was typing this...
On our picture, the approach to the bridge is fairly level, whereas the St Catherine's one seems to be some way down into the gap, with rocks rising on either side.
Also, if it was St Catherine's Island, wouldn't the background be Tenby town and beach, rather than cliffs and farmland?
Arthur
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I was just coming back to say, when I look at Cazza's picture I think I am looking out to sea not inland which is what I would be looking at if it were St Catherine's. :-\ Back to the drawing board I think.
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The other factor to consider is the length of the bridge compared to the size of the 'island'. It is not a big piece of rock, less than 20' x 20' at the top.
Way too small to be St Catherine's.
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A little late to the party, but I offer the following observations (can't solve it yet ;) )
I don't think it is Orkney (Flotta, Hoxa or Lyness) - lots of pictures are available showing those areas on http://www.geograph.org.uk/ - always worth a look before jumping in with any guesses. Also, the field boundaries on Orkney are not solid as shown in the headland in the background, they are generally open wire fences.
The path on the right would appear to be at the same level as the top of the bridge, which has a platform lower down and is attached to the top by a vertical pair of wires on either side of the walkway. So is the path actually a covering/awning over a path on the right hand side which we cannot see? If so, why has it been covered? A disguise? And does it lead to a structure on the rock in the middle of the picture which faces the headland in the background, but is set down low below the 'skyline' of the rock? Although it would have to be a pretty small building - there's not a lot of surface area there. It also looks like a wall on the right abutting the path/awning, with at least two quite sharp angles in it. Pity there isn't more visible on that side.
I don't think that the rock is yet an island - it is still connected at sea level, but the fact that there is a bridge would seem to indicate that there was something on the rock that someone wanted to reach and maybe not just a view.
The rock is probably grey, maybe a shale like rock.
I could be hopelessly wrong, but it might stimulate some further useful discussion . ;D
Nell
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No idea but I can confirm it's not Porth, I can see that from my house ;D
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The path on the right would appear to be at the same level as the top of the bridge, which has a platform lower down and is attached to the top by a vertical pair of wires on either side of the walkway.
I don't think that's a path. It's some sort of light-coloured capping on the top of a substantial wall built on the headland to the right of the bridge. The top of the wall is level with the upper structure of the bridge. Any path hidden by the wall and is at the level of the lower part of the bridge.
As already observed by KG
Looks to me like a wall around the rocks to the right?
Path must be behind the wall, at the same level as the lower part of the bridge?
Handrails (or cables or ropes) at the top. There are a series of 2 struts/stays.
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Thanks, JB! ;D
I thought it might be part of the older Gobbins Coastal Path, Islandmagee, Northern Ireland?
But not so sure now!
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Oh dear, missed those observations :-[
(Memo to self, make sure you read all the posts and don't get distracted ;D )
Nell
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Just noticed on the far off cliff directly above the bridge - clearly a man's chest, shoulders and head. Huge nose, and are those white bits backwards pointing devil's horns? At first glance I thought Joseph Stalin, but the nose is the wrong shape.
Surely that must narrow the location down a bit? ;D ;D
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On a more serious note, I was looking for signs of shadows to get an idea of orientation. On the rocks it is hard to tell, but I think the dark marks on the lower part of the bridge may be shadows from the decking planks and the cross timbers which support the handrail. I think there are two pairs of handrail supports at the 1/3 and 2/3 points across the bridge, roughly where I've added the yellow arrows.
These appear to be casting shadows down and slightly to the right, the direction of the arrows giving an indication of the direction of the sun. We don't know what time of day the picture was taken, but my feeling is the shape of the shadow equates to the sun being fairly high in the sky, so more likely the middle part of the day rather than early or late.
In which case we are probably viewing the bridge from the South, possibly South-east, or at least not from the North, otherwise the whole of that side of the bridge should be in shadow.
The significance of that is it means the coast in the background is probably facing South (or something between South-east and South-west). Although that doesn't necessarily mean the South coast of England.
I think there is also evidence of shadow at the left-hand end of the bridge, behind the left-hand wall next to the path on the right, and also on the rocks below the bridge. These are all consistent with the sun coming from the left-hand side of the photo.
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There could once have been a piece of military equipment mounted on or attached to the small piece of rock. Such as a searchlight or an attenna (aerial) (Taking some ideas from the details offered by the Tenby theory)
The narrow "path" is consistent with camouflage of the cables, as practiced by the germans as well as by the British in concealing Radar installations.
As at Dunnett Head on the mainland of Scotland
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Ground a the top of the cliff is very flat and seems to be fields right to the edge, does not look like a costal pathway.
Jennifer
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A few random thoughts - is there a road running along the near edge of the cliff on the other side(looks like a white line) ?
Has anybody an idea what the two posts are at the front edge of the photo, are they on the shore or perhaps a boat?
Are there a couple of people on the other side, one with a white hat, as seen in the photo posted by Nick_Ips in #52?
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Has anybody an idea what the two posts are at the front edge of the photo, are they on the shore or perhaps a boat?
I'm wondering if the 'post' on the right at the front edge of the photo is a lookout binocular. So I would guess it was on the shore rather than in a boat. It would seem to be aiming towards the rock formation. I've been wondering if it's the geological formation that is the focus of interest in this photo.
Not sure about the 'post on the left at the front edge of the photo but have been wondering if it lines up with the 'post' on the far shore that you referred to as Loch Ness monster in reply #10 (which made me chuckle at the time ;D )
sami
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I was just about to say the same Geoff-E.Doesn't look like the Jurassic Coast in Dorset,but might be worth a look.I wonder how old the photo is ,as there doesn't seem to be any regeneration.
Regards
Roger
I'd say Edwardian.
Caz
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Looking at the geology the size of the landslip is considerable and presumably indicates a rock formation that is prone to landslips, with other smaller slips further along the coast?
The construction of the bridge in the foreground should be on a rock formation that is more stable or the bridge wouldn't have built - however it does look are though the bridge links to a rock headland separating by a fault line from the main coast. So how strange to build the bridge and the associated well constructed walls on this unstable coast line unless the photographer is looking out from part of a much larger site which was of importance
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A few random thoughts - is there a road running along the near edge of the cliff on the other side(looks like a white line) ?
Has anybody an idea what the two posts are at the front edge of the photo, are they on the shore or perhaps a boat?
Are there a couple of people on the other side, one with a white hat, as seen in the photo posted by Nick_Ips in #52?
Yes, I think the two things on the bottom edge of the photo are part of a boat.
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I will risk the opprobrium of my fellow Rootschatters by making a comparison,hopefully to similar scale,of the posted photograph and a presumably much more recent one(desaturated).Given the fact that there may be 100 years or so between them and they are from slightly different angles,I still find the comparison interesting(including the white footpath(?) above the geological feature)
Could there have been a bridge that allowed access perhaps to the tip of Porth Island 100 years ago?
Regards
Roger
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The geology is interesting, but I'm not sure it helps much with the why (or why not) the bridge is there.
The coast in the background is made up of different types of rock, I've indicated the boundaries between them with purple lines. The area with the landslip is possibly a much softer rock (perhaps limestone?) in an area which is generally harder. If you look closely at the point I've marked with an arrow it appears the soft rock is actually being eroded from behind the harder material to the left. It is a similar kind of process which would cause the cave-like structures. The process here is one of wave action undermining the toe of the cliff causing the material above to fall and would be happening constantly.
In the foreground, the rocks are generally harder, but the 'island' does show some movement. Although it is difficult to be sure without a colour photo I've indicated the different layers (bedding planes) with red green and blue lines. This illustrates that there has been a slip along a fault shown roughly by the orange line. But that is a movement associated with a very long time period, or a very dramatic event (earthquake), so unlikely to pose much of a concern during the lifespan of the bridge.
The bridge itself is of a very simple construction and relatively low cost - the kind of thing a council would use on a public footpath to cross a stream or small river. It would also accommodate quite a lot of vertical movement at one end before becoming unsafe, so the builders would not have been particularly concerned about movement of the rock causing their hard work to be wasted.
Like ScouseBoy I did wonder about it being used for some kind of military installation. But the solidness of the walls on the right-hand side suggest to me that this wasn't something designed for use by the military or civil organisation - for them I'd expect to just see a sign saying 'keep away from the edge', or a barrier of wire or rope. Employee safety then would have been on the basis of common sense rather than having such a heavy physical barrier.
For me the construction of the walls very much suggests this is something the public have regular access to, either as tourists, or that the area to the right is inhabited.
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I will risk the opprobrium of my fellow Rootschatters by making a comparison,hopefully to similar scale,of the posted photograph and a presumably much more recent one(desaturated).Given the fact that there may be 100 years or so between them and they are from slightly different angles,I still find the comparison interesting(including the white footpath(?) above the geological feature)
Could there have been a bridge that allowed access perhaps to the tip of Porth Island 100 years ago?
Regards
Roger
I think the geological similarities between the 2 photos are striking, Roger - so no opprobrium from me ;)
Pat
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I don't know what opprobrium means - so you wont get any from me (at least not knowingly!) :)
Sorry to have led you all up the garden (or coastal?) path with St Catherines Tenby .......
Just been studying the google satellite picture that was linked (Spidermonkey reply #41)- it would only work if the photo had been reversed when printed. The photographer would be standing on the small bit jutting out immediately SE of the bridge, and then then background would be the headland (marked Tenby Museum and art gallery) with the paths on it. Not the town at all. And it would have to be high tide so beach there covered.
However - seeing as the rock strata do go the wrong way, and the background still doesn't match brilliantly, I can see that it probably isn't St Catherines after all - so sorry for the false hope!
(You have to admit it did have possibility!!!)
Hope we can find it!
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I sincerely and honestly think that the structure is NOT a bridge but a construction to carry cables across a gap. Perhaps telephone, telegraph or electricity.
Is there an absence of trees on the opposite bank?
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What I also find intriguing is, where or how was the photo taken. From a hill top? Aerial?
Caz
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I sincerely and honestly think that the structure is NOT a bridge but a construction to carry cables across a gap. Perhaps telephone, telegraph or electricity.
Is there an absence of trees on the opposite bank?
Why would anyone want to take a photograph of cables? :-\
Why would anyone want to carry cables to a rock? :-\
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Caz,
I'd say the picture was taken from the top of a similar adjacent outcrop of rock. The alternating hard/soft rock types could give rise to this kind of coastline with numerous small bays and headlands.
In fact the two objects at the bottom of the picture which have been identified as possibly a boat may mean the area between the camera and the bridge is being used as a small harbour?
Nick
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Perhaps telephone,
Cant see a telephone box on the rock ....... :)
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The rock may have been marked by red navigation lights.
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In ScouseBoy's defence, you might want to carry cables (communications, power etc) across a gap like this, for example if the top of the rock was used for some military/navigation purpose.
But I cannot think of a purpose where you wouldn't also want to have human access, either for operation of the equipment or maintenance, so you would also need to provide an access bridge.
As a civil engineer, I can see a bridge with handrails, with paths leading up to at least one side. So for me it is a bridge intended to be used by people :)
Also, as I've mentioned already, the design and robustness of the walls suggest to me it is intended for use by the public, rather than the military or civil authorities.
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Caz,
I'd say the picture was taken from the top of a similar adjacent outcrop of rock. The alternating hard/soft rock types could give rise to this kind of coastline with numerous small bays and headlands.
In fact the two objects at the bottom of the picture which have been identified as possibly a boat may mean the area between the camera and the bridge is being used as a small harbour?
Nick
Thanks for the explanation Nick. Also for confirmation that it is a bridge intended for use by people. That eliminates a few lines of enquiry. :)
Caz
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However - seeing as the rock strata do go the wrong way, and the background still doesn't match brilliantly, I can see that it probably isn't St Catherines after all - so sorry for the false hope!
(You have to admit it did have possibility!!!)
Hope we can find it!
It certainly did have possibility! As always with these threads, I am learning all the time about locations - I knew about the bridge on Newquay beach, but had forgotten Porth Beach and didn't know about St Catherine's! Just wait until there's a pub quiz question on rocks linked by bridges ;)
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It certainly did have possibility! As always with these threads, I am learning all the time about locations - I knew about the bridge on Newquay beach, but had forgotten Porth Beach and didn't know about St Catherine's! Just wait until there's a pub quiz question on rocks linked by bridges ;)
Mine will be Workhouses and Boys Homes of the late 19th and early 20th century. ( bloody number 12-but I did find a great site on Childrens Homes and Workhouses )
Just on this one , and from a very distant observation , when I first looked I thought Cornish coast or further up towards Wales. Only from googling towns my ancestors may have lived in. Also great work by Nick and Despair especially. Everyone else as well ;)
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Inspite of Scouse Boy's insistence, I'm far more convinced by the detailed explanations given by others that it is definitely a footbridge.
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I sincerely and honestly think that the structure is NOT a bridge but a construction to carry cables across a gap. Perhaps telephone, telegraph or electricity.
Is there an absence of trees on the opposite bank?
Why would anyone want to take a photograph of cables? :-\
Why would anyone want to carry cables to a rock? :-\
The main point of the photograph is the view across the water.
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Caz, I meant to ask earlier, what's the source of the photograph? Is it a postcard, a negative or a print from an album etc?
If a negative or print, it is possible that the image has been reversed from real life, with the negative being the wrong way round during exposure or printing. There is nothing (like writing) that would highlight this error. I've flipped the picture to illustrate the point.
Also, there is a bright 'dot' in the far distance where I've added a red arrow. Is this dot damage on the print/negative, or possibly a reflection of sunlight?
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I sincerely and honestly think that the structure is NOT a bridge but a construction to carry cables across a gap. Perhaps telephone, telegraph or electricity.
Is there an absence of trees on the opposite bank?
Why would anyone want to take a photograph of cables? :-\
Why would anyone want to carry cables to a rock? :-\
The main point of the photograph is the view across the water.
If that was so why take a few steps sideways? Or point the camera in a slightly different direction? Or walk to the wall and take it from there?
IMHO the point of the photograph was the rock and the bridge.
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I suspect it is because I've got Cornwall on the brain, but that flipped photo reminds me of the view over to RAF Perranport http://www.westbriton.co.uk/1-49m-perranporth-airfield-sale/story-18023582-detail/story.html Chapel Rock is there?
ETA - but having an RAF base would be daft if the photo was Edwardian. Sorry :'(
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I'm just guessing at the Edwardian as it's similar to others that I know to be from that era. It is sepia as shown and on wafer thin paper.
Caz
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It's too hard to say about the bright "light". There are certainly a couple of buildings dotted about.
My apologies if this has been mentioned, but I wonder if that is a natural arch through the rock.
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That thing which you have just marked with a red arrow looks very much like an articulated lorry.
This is an analogy, it looks like a 40 foot long container.
I have enlarged it.
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That thing which you have just marked with a red arrow looks very much like an articulated lorry like Morrisons currently use.
::) ::) This is getting silly now!
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It looks like a 40 foot long box with a black square at the back 8 foot by 8 foot.
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That thing which you have just marked with a red arrow looks very much like an articulated lorry like Morrisons currently use.
Please tell me you're joking?
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Looks more like an Eddie Stobart lorry to me.
With big Jim driving.
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Looks more like an Eddie Stobart lorry to me.
With big Jim driving.
As long as it's not an Ice Road Trucker we'll be ok :P ::)
ETA there also seems to be a hot air balloon on the horizon, so I'm sure googling a combination of Loch Ness Monster, Morrisons delivery options, and hot air balloon will yield the correct result ::)
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It's too hard to say about the bright "light". There are certainly a couple of buildings dotted about.
My apologies if this has been mentioned, but I wonder if that is a natural arch through the rock.
Yes - I think it is a natural arch too.
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On the far right of picture, just by ScouseBoy's Morrisons truck, are there two chimneys (a la Cornish mining type)?
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That thing which you have just marked with a red arrow looks very much like an articulated lorry like Morrisons currently use.
This is an analogy, it looks like a 40 foot long container.
I have enlarged it.
Yet again you have edited a posting. The sentence starting 'this is an analogy.........' wasn't in your original.
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It's an Edwardian, Morrison's container!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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The Carrick rope bridge at Portrush N Ireland (I know that is not the bridge we are looking for) was originally built by fishermen to check their salmon fishing nets.. I wonder if there is an equally obscure reason for the building of this bridge..
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If you follow the tide line in from the left where the rocks enter the sea there seems to be, just above the tideline an unnatural flat surface with a conspicuous triangular "rock" at the top. This looks man made to me.
I would add that the "handrail" looks to me much to large a diameter to be a handrail.
Mike
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I would add that the "handrail" looks to me much to large a diameter to be a handrail.
Mike
Could it look too thick as it is the rail on both sides of the bridge running parallel :-\
Looks more like an Eddie Stobart lorry to me.
With big Jim driving.
Is there a name on the cab ::) ;D
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I would add that the "handrail" looks to me much to large a diameter to be a handrail.
Mike
Could it look too thick as it is the rail on both sides of the bridge running parallel :-\
Looks more like an Eddie Stobart lorry to me.
With big Jim driving.
Is there a name on the cab ::) ;D
It could be, but cazzas last picture with the red arrows on is a bit clearer than the first, and at the left hand side where it meets the wall it seems to be a singe rail, it does look more like a pipe to me.
Mike
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Just thought I'd chuck this one in....Lye Rock in Cornwall..
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ir8/
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That thing which you have just marked with a red arrow looks very much like an articulated lorry like Morrisons currently use.
Please tell me you're joking?
If you disagree with my interpretation of the object as being 40 feet long and 8 feet deep by 8 feet wide, please give us the benefit of your views, but perhaps you were unable to enlarge the image?
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I don't see anything at all pipe-like about this footbridge, nor does the hand-rail look out of proportion to me. The surface of the bridge has spaced out boards - you can see their shadows on the beam below.
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but perhaps you were unable to enlarge the image?
Of course I was able to enlarge it! I've spent considerable time since yesterday, when it was first posted, with the photo enlarged, trying to interpret it.
I don't think I was alone in assuming you were joking when you said it looks 'very much like an articulated lorry like Morrisons use'.
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I don't think I was alone in assuming you were joking when you said it looks 'very much like an articulated lorry like Morrisons use'.
On the contrary, I thought he was probably serious, which is even worse!
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That thing which you have just marked with a red arrow looks very much like an articulated lorry like Morrisons currently use.
This is an analogy, it looks like a 40 foot long container.
I have enlarged it.
Yet again you have edited a posting. The sentence starting 'this is an analogy.........' wasn't in your original.
Were you aware that there were THREE red arrows marking objects that Cazza was highlighting? What is your assessment of the top two objects, I wonder?
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Good evening,
Firstly I think all the white lines are stone walls rather than roads. they are too upright for anything else given the angle.
I can't see morrisons on the side of the container so I think it is a small building in the corner of the field.
More importantly, whilst this is not the one, I think we are in a location similar to this. The bridge is part of the access to it from water level.
John915
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Could there have been a lighthouse there at one time i.e. bridge to gain access?
Annie
good suggestion, but more likely to be small navigation lights than a big lighthouse
I've been giving this some thought, and I wonder if the lighthouse idea might have something going for it. I've looked at rather a lot in the past hour or so, and there are some features in common with this picture.
(EDIT: John915 posted while I was typing; the red message didn't bring up the picture, but I now see he may be thinking on similar lines.)
The wall on the right, with a rather zig-zag shape: many lighthouses seem to have a substantial wall built around the site, sometimes of a similar shape to this - presumably to stop keepers wandering off the cliff edge in the dark or fog if their torches give out. So if I'm right, the lighthouse will be somewhere off to the right.
The bridge to nowhere: I wondered at first if there might be some kind of mooring on the other side of the rock, but now I'm wondering if there might be some kind of light, or more likely a foghorn. If you search for "Mull of Galloway lighthouse foghorn" (I don't think this is it, by the way), you'll see that the foghorn is some way down the cliff below the lighthouse. Presumably siting it against a cliff helps the sound to carry out to sea? So could there be something similar here?
Having said all that, I haven't found a picture to match ours, though most of the ones I found were quite recent. But do you think there might be anything in this?
Arthur
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Arthur. you are quite correct many lighthouses do have powerful fog horns installed at the sites. And I believe they have a distinct time pattern to enable vessels to be able to know which lighthouse is emitting that pattern.
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This is a map of current lighthouses in Cornwall http://incornwall.info/lighthouses/
A more comprehensive list https://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/lighthouse/engsw.htm
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Another thought is could it have been an engine room of a Cornish tin mine similar to this one at Botallack. If you look on the left hand side, the bridge could end up in the remains of a building...
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I like that idea!
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I've just found that the image I used for the "geology matching" was not from the Porth Island inlet,but Mawgan Porth,so I'll look for some images there.
Regards
Roger
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I also thought lighthouses last night but felt the ''rock'' was too small. The foghorn makes more sense for that space.
Looking at Anglesey Light house we see similar wall/path structures. And we see a suspension bridge connecting the stack.
What would be this distance to the mainland? ie I looked at Looe Island ( St Georges) but dismissed it.
Moderator comment: images removed to prevent breach of copyright
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I'm very doubtful about the foghorn theory. A google image search suggests they are almost invariably located on top of a substantial concrete structure, if not on a lighthouse itself. If a foghorn had been located on top of the rock (and subsequently removed) then there would still be some kind of structure there. The alternative - that the foghorn is on the far side of the rock (so not visible in the picture) would mean that the headland acts as a sound barrier. The objective of the foghorn is to radiate sound out as far as possible, so 'hiding' it behind a rock facing towards an opposite shore would make it more or less ineffective.
I suspect in the Mull of Galloway example, the light is located as high as possible to maximise visibility, and the foghorn has been located nearer the sea to improve the distance the sound is carried. I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe sound is attenuated to a far greater extend over land than it is water, so placing it as close to the shore as possible maximises the carry. However, the semi-circular support arrangement in the Mull of Galloway example I think demonstrates the need to be able to 'swing' the foghorn from side to side so it can be heard from all seaward directions.
Another google image result is Mull of Kintyre - http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1877136
This illustrates the kind of structure used to raise the level of the horn, but more importantly illustrates the kind of safety provision I've referred to in previous posts. Contrast the 'sheep wire' fence at the Mull of Kintyre to the solidly built walls next to the bridge we are interested in. The 'sheep wire' is sufficient because the trained lighthouse keeper knows not to lean on it to get a better view... something you cannot rely on the public not to do!
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If it turns out to be a lighthouse, just out of the photo shot, then the rock could contain the jetty by which supplies were delivered, including the oil for heating.
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Good evening,
If it turns out to be a lighthouse, just out of the photo shot, then the rock could contain the jetty by which supplies were delivered, including the oil for heating.
Isn't that what I inferred in my post?
You need to read the replys SB.
John915
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I've been looking further afield.
With Caz's previous coastal pic being in Jersey, I've been map-hopping, and found this, not far from Greve de Lecq
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@49.2567334,-2.2296705,360a,20y,90h/data=!3m1!1e3
Can't really tell what view they would have had though :-\
Yorkslass
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No, scrap that - similar, but not near enough.
Oh dear
http://www.theislandwiki.org/index.php/File:E16Plemont1912.jpg
Yorkslass
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I was about to say I've been there and it would be something like this - :)
http://www.birdsontheedge.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Plemont-2012-2.jpg
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Does look really close though, so a good shout to remind us not just to focus on the UK
A slightly earlier view than you found, just because! http://past-to-present.com/G14587
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I had already looked at that, but the rocks don't seem right and the surrounding area is all wrong unfortunately.
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I am sceptical about the lighthouse theory - the light would not be visible beyond the land that can be seen behind it in the photo. Would that not negate the point of the lighthouse? Unless that land is is well behind the 'lighthouse' and that rock is a promontory into the sea. Which would then imply that the photographer is on a similar promontory to be able to take the picture. :-\
Nell
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I don't think lighthouse either as I don't think the rock is large or flat enough. However, there must have been some reason to build a bridge and a substantial wall. ???
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I'm still fairly sure the reason for the wall and bridge is in some way tourism related.
As posted by others, the picture is of the bridge and rock, not something else which is just out of shot.
If there were a lighthouse just to the right, then why is the picture not of a lighthouse, rather than the pathway that leads to it? This assumes that the person taking the picture is 'normal' in the sense they take pictures of 'normal' things - but I say that as the kind of person who may well take a picture of the bridge or rocks (not the lighthouse) because those kind of things sometimes interest me more! The question is whether an Edwardian photographer would use expensive film and photographic paper to take a picture of a mundane feature, rather than the far more impressive lighthouse.
For me the rock (or the view from it) is the attraction, it explains why someone took a picture of it, and why someone went to some effort building a bridge to it. We are talking of something like Giant's Causeway, Smoo cave, Devil's Hole (Jersey), Old Man of Hoy. (not suggesting it is actually any of these)
The only thing which concerns me is that if this was some kind of tourist attraction, then presumably it would still be. But in the internet age, lots of people would have posted pictures of it online... but having done various image searches, nothing similar comes up. Why?
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You make good points, Nick. I can't help but feel that the rock must have a name - such as Chapel Rock or Queen Bess Rock - but perhaps with erosion, it has been knocked about too much ???
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I cannot help but notice that in Llandudno there is an artillery school built into the rock faces of the great orme, googling terms such as coastal artillery or coastal gun emplacements makes me wonder if just round the corner there is a great big gun and this bridge is for carrying the ammunition across, which has been offloaded into the walled area to the right of the bridge
Mike
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I cannot help but notice that in Llandudno there is an artillery school built into the rock faces of the great orme, googling terms such as coastal artillery or coastal gun emplacements makes me wonder if just round the corner there is a great big gun and this bridge is for carrying the ammunition across, which has been offloaded into the walled area to the right of the bridge
Mike
The construction in the photo is not strong enough to carry heavy shells.
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I have to add that Solva on the Pembrokeshire coast is in a very similar inlet to this, there are traces of ww1 gun positions to be seen protecting the harbour, although I don't think it was here
Mike
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I cannot help but notice that in Llandudno there is an artillery school built into the rock faces of the great orme, googling terms such as coastal artillery or coastal gun emplacements makes me wonder if just round the corner there is a great big gun and this bridge is for carrying the ammunition across, which has been offloaded into the walled area to the right of the bridge
Mike
The construction in the photo is not strong enough to carry heavy shells.
Coastal guns are usually 4 inch especially in ww1, even 9 inch shells can be and were carried by two men, try googling some information
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This would have been an army gun, not a naval gun, note the reference to royal artillery training school.
Mike
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I do think there is some military or naval purpose associated with the rock. If you are correct about the gun emplacement, then it could be that there would be an Observation Post or Searchlight or Signalling Light mounted on the rock.
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The flaw in my reasoning, and possibly others is that cazza thinks the photo is Edwardian, 1901-1910, maybe it could be a bit later, although of course we have been taking anti invasion measures for centuries, sometimes with a degree of secrecy
Mike
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If it was a military installation (though personally I'm still leaning towards a lighthouse), and if it was in the Channel Islands, it would no doubt have been drastically altered or built over during WW2, so photos will be harder to come by. In fact even mainland installations would probably have been reinforced as well, but by us rather than them.
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I'm a bit puzzled by the lighthouse idea, unless I've missed something. There are no signs of a lighthouse buliding or ruins on the rock are there?
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I'm a bit puzzled by the lighthouse idea, unless I've missed something. There are no signs of a lighthouse buliding or ruins on the rock are there?
The thesis is that the lighthouse is out of shot, on the right. The jetty access to the lighthouse is on the other side of the rock, then you cross the footbridge to the lighthouse
It's entirely possible, as are the gun emplacement or tourism options.
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Just running with the military idea (gun emplacement etc) the suggestion is whatever it is is on the far side of the rock and therefore hidden from our view - otherwise we would see it, or the remains of foundations etc that supported it.
I cannot see any evidence of a path leading more than a couple of feet from the seaward end of the bridge. Therefore to cross to the far side of the rock it would be necessary to pass through some kind of short tunnel, the entrance of which is hidden from our view. Something I've seen in other situations and therefore not necessarily unlikely. Given the scale from the height of the handrail any such tunnel would have to be at a lower level (and falling away) than the deck of the bridge, as head height of someone standing on the bridge would be close to the very top most point of the rock.
I've added a speculative 'hidden' tunnel, reached by steps, to the picture.
But I really don't think this is what is there for two reasons:
1) It is a small piece of rock. Tunneling through it would be hard work, possibly requiring explosives. Far easier to use explosives to simply blow the whole of the top of the rock away, and if intended for military use then explosives may well be the first thought of the engineers!
2) As posted before, the rock is probably sedimentary and made up of layers with sloping bedding planes. This creates a risk of slips. Imagine the rock as a pile of jenga blocks with the pile being slightly tilted. Nothing stops a block sliding off the one below, other than the friction between them. On our rock the two green arrows indicate a bedding plane I'd be concerned about. If that plane extends throughout the whole cross-section of the rock, then the only thing holding the top of the rock in place is the friction between the two layers. Tunelling through the rock at that level would reduce the frictional force and increase the risk of a slip. There are (modern) engineering solutions to reduce the risk (rock bolts), but often the simpler and cheaper solution is still just to remove the risky material (i.e. blow it up).
So for those reasons I don't think the bridge provides access to the rock to provide access to something else. There are other more practical ways of getting to the other side of the rock if that is where you wanted to go.
In terms of an observation point, why go onto the rock? Simply build a low structure (say 10 feet) where the walls are on the right hand side of the photo and you would get as good a view as you would sitting on the rock. Searchlight? Why would you need one before aircraft were a problem in WW1?
Mike's comment on secrecy is also relevant - if this is a military installation in active use, then would a photographer be allowed to photograph it? The condition of the walls and bridge suggest something fairly new, not old and disused.
However, my previous question about why it isn't a well known location today might be answered if this area has since become part of a military establishment - any tourists would have been banished if the area is now behind barbed wire and 'MOD keep out' signs. There are plenty of locations (like Orfordness) where that has happened since Edwardian times.
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Sorry, picture to go with my previous post...
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Searchlights were used before WW1 for Naval surface and submarine purposes.
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Shore-based searchlights, rather than ship-based?
And again, why on top of this rock rather than on the 'mainland'?
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I am still curious about this, man made or natural rock
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I am convinced that there is a gateway/portal (for want of a better term) at the seaward end of the bridge?
It looks like the ends of 2 wall-ends, and would be consistent with the size of the walls on the headland.
What I can't be sure of is how far these man-made walls extend?
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I did wonder if a walkway existed right across the the top of the rock to the seaward end, there seems to be a tiny platform at the sea end on the same level as the bridge base.
The military were good at demolishing rocks, they had a lot of practice in Gibraltar
Mike
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A foghorn maybe, similar to this one at St, Martins point.;
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GERp9mi3Ujw/hqdefault.jpg
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I am still curious about this, man made or natural rock
I don't see anything unnatural about it.
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Ignoring the red and green lines, below them I see what looks like a flat surface with a perfect equilateral triangle of "rock" at the top of it, but maybe I am seeing what I want to see, which is why I sought a second opinion
Mike
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Mike (Mazi),
I think what you are looking at is simply the top surface of one layer of rock. The triangular shape is simply part of the layer above which has remained after the surrounding rock fractured and fell away.
The principle is similar to how slate can be cleaved to form a relatively flat smooth surface. Looks like it is manmade, but entirely natural.
Nick
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Good afterns on,
Whilst I still think along the lines of lighthouse/foghorn on the area to the right and out of sight of us. Another possible is coastguard lookout.
But let's think about orientation, where is the open sea, is it behind us or out to the left. I'm starting to think out to the left. This may actually be on mainland terra firma and not a lump of rock in the sea.
We could just be looking across a bay with the shore line coming around out of shot on the right.
Why or what is the shot of, who just takes a single picture. It may be one of several which we don't have but would give us a location immediately.
There is something out of shot at the bottom, jetty or boat. Whatever it is has a post and what looks like large lookout binoculars but they are too low down to be shore based looking out to sea.
John915
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The set up could be very similar to St Catherine's Fort/Island at Tenby,already dismissed on relative size/background issues.A landing jetty leads to steps behind one side of the rock formation,then onto a bridge and,incidentally,in Tenby's case to a gun emplacement surrounded by a stone wall(I think).
Attached is a slightly enhanced version-what is the general opinion of the pattern in the lower "girder like" component of the structure?
Regards
Roger
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In reply #53 I speculated the pattern on the bridge beam is probably from the ends of the decking planks which would normally be at 90 degrees to the line of the bridge on this kind of structure. Mike in reply #98 had the same view.
One of the reasons being that there are longer shadows at the 1/3 and 2/3 points, which would correspond with longer planks at those points (where the near vertical wires can be seen) which are used to support/restrain the handrails.
I don't think the bridge beams are anything other than plain 'I' beams, or timbers, approximately 15-18 inches in depth.
The main significance of the shadows is they perhaps indicate orientation to the South (roughly) as per reply #53.
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Are we perhaps over thinking things? Could it just be a lookout? Also, if this pic is dated as I think, could it have been destroyed and rebuilt?
However, please don't take the Edwardian date as gospel as I'm really only guessing.
Didn't think this one would be such a headache. If anyone would like any areas of the original rescanned, let me know.
Cheers
Caz
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A enlargement/refinement of the structure on the island would probably be helpfull.
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An enlargement of the top rail or "hand" rail would help please?
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Didn't think this one would be such a headache.
We are looking for something that may not have been there when the photo was taken, on a chunk of rock that may not be there now. ;D
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I cannot help but notice that in Llandudno there is an artillery school built into the rock faces of the great orme, googling terms such as coastal artillery or coastal gun emplacements makes me wonder if just round the corner there is a great big gun and this bridge is for carrying the ammunition across, which has been offloaded into the walled area to the right of the bridge
Mike
The construction in the photo is not strong enough to carry heavy shells.
Coastal guns are usually 4 inch especially in ww1, even 9 inch shells can be and were carried by two men, try googling some information
Google is not infallible. nor is it always comprehensive.
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You use Google to provide a list of sources, it is then up to you to decide if those sources are reliable.
Mike
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Google is not infallible. nor is it always comprehensive.
[/quote]
Depends how you use it. It is very useful, as Mike says, as a starting point and for giving links so that people can see for themselves if your idea is correct.
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This would have been an army gun, not a naval gun, note the reference to royal artillery training school.
Mike
However, the land based guns protecting the entrance to the Mersey and other ports and Naval Bases would have been mounted in heavy reinforced concrete placements, and would have been similar to the guns on ships such as HMS Belfast and other cruisers.
They were Shore to ship guns
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Some more close ups.
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Another.
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And..
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The railing as requested.
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Last one.
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Again, apologies if this has been discussed but as I said watching the data useage, but could that be a telescope?
Caz
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Possibly a telescope, or else just the edge of a flattish piece of rock which just happens to look that shape from this angle. ;)
Directly in front of it (to the left of the picture) is a white patch (immediately below the head of your red arrow) which I'd noticed and wondered if it was the top surface of another wall as it seems consistent with the colouration and flatness of the walls in the right of the picture. I can 'see' that this wall curves around your 'telescope' as I'd expect it to, but again, it is probably just different patches of rock that present a certain impression to the viewer. (Still surprised nobody has identified the 'man' I'd spotted in reply #52 ;) )
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If only they had taken a colour photograph life would be so much easier! ;)
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At least I agree there are two handrails, as the stanchions are clearer ;D
Mike
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From a different angle, but could this be it?
http://picclick.co.uk/PORTH-The-Bridge-Island-Cliffs-Rocks-Beach-Old-381808596601.html#&gid=1&pid=1
Yorkslass
I think YL is correct.
I think both pics have been taken from opposite sides?
There appears to be more of the bridge showing in Cazza's pic.
The tide is in on Cazza's pic but out on YL's link.
What makes me think it's the same place is the triangular shape (between the rocks) below where the bridge spans on both pics being very similar but looks to be taken from different angles/opposite sides?
Annie
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The bridge isn't the same structure though is it?
Looking at the picture on this link http://newquayguide.co.uk/porth-beach/ I don't it couldn't have been taken from the other side as that is just sea.
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No Groom but may have been renewed?
The shape below is so alike I think it's an incredible likeness & also looks to be of same size (the gap)?
Annie
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Surely the relative size of the top of the rock area is completely different,and in Cazza's picture the structure joins the top of both sides,whereas at Newquay that is clearly not the case?
Regards
Roger
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Good evening,
See reply 48 by Serrasalmus, NOT Porth, he can see that from his house.
John915
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Is anyone clever enough to show the pictures side by side?
Just seen your reply John - so that rules it out. What a lovely view Serrasalmus has.
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Groom,
Those pics on your link look so much different altogether compared with the 2 I was focusing on which was the 1st 2 posted.
Annie
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Good morning,
My forth attempt at posting this. Sorry Seoras but my tablet doesn't like your name. D*******d corrective text keeps changing things.
John915
Added, success at last.
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I don't think it is Porth Island.
I did say in my second reply it didn't look right.
It doesn't - having looked at many photos, there's too much land on the left hand side, whereas on Caz's photo, the land mass/island looks smaller ....
Yorkslass
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As much as it pains me to say it, I think maybe we have reached the end of Rootschatter's abilities to identify this one, perhaps we need professional help? ;)
I'm sure there must be something like 'Rockschat', and one option could be the Geological Society's 'ask a geologist' tool - https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/askageologist
Goelogists spend a lot of time going to unusual places to look at rocks, so if our rock has some kind of interest (whether tourism, military, navigation) then the chances are that a geologist has been to have a look at some point ;D
Obviously as the picture is Cazza's it is her call whether she wants to try another site :-\
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Apologies if this has already been mentioned....
There seems to be some sort of structure on the shoreline across from the "bridge".
Could it be some sort of tower, lime kiln, mine working ...?
Or just part of the rocks?
Yorkslass
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I have got a book: The Islands of Scotland which is the sort of book that may provide the answer.
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Perhaps make contact here,as per Nick_lps suggestion?
http://happypontist.blogspot.co.uk
Regards
Roger
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Yorkslass, it does look a bit like a WW2 bunker/observation tower similar to the kind you find on Jersey, and I can 'see' something which appears to be a jetty coming out into the sea, possibly for access purposes.
But the photo is older, and if you wanted to build a bunker/observation point then why put it where the sea will cause you problems rather than put it on top of the cliff - where the view would be better anyway?
I think it is just more rocks which happen to look like something man made in the lighting conditions and from this particular viewing angle.
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Good afternoon,
I have got a book: The Islands of Scotland which is the sort of book that may provide the answer.
Why not look in the book then? When you have found the answer you may post it on this thread.
John915
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I have got a book: The Islands of Scotland which is the sort of book that may provide the answer.
I've got that book too. it's great.
Can you post the answer for us, when you've had a look in the book? Shouldn't take you long to find it.
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Perwick Bay Isle of Man? Can't find an image of the bridge that can be seen on google maps but found one of the geography in the background http://www.brinsmead.net.au/mpics/20160807_008.JPG (http://www.brinsmead.net.au/mpics/20160807_008.JPG)
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Perwick Bay Isle of Man? Can't find an image of the bridge that can be seen on google maps but found one of the geography in the background http://www.brinsmead.net.au/mpics/20160807_008.JPG (http://www.brinsmead.net.au/mpics/20160807_008.JPG)
I think you're right! :)
The layout of the fields compares well with GoogleMaps http://tinyurl.com/hkq78xd
and here are the rocks with the bridge http://tinyurl.com/zmmfjha
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Will this photo do?
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/60246
At least I got the colour of the rock right!
Nell
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Perwick Bay Isle of Man? Can't find an image of the bridge that can be seen on google maps but found one of the geography in the background http://www.brinsmead.net.au/mpics/20160807_008.JPG (http://www.brinsmead.net.au/mpics/20160807_008.JPG)
Wow....well done...I've been looking at this for so long and couldn't leave it alone...nice work 8)
Great find Nell :D
Carol
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No, Sc00p found it. I just found the modern photo.
Just looking at old maps and the 1870 OS map has the area marked with the 'remains of a fort'
There was a building there called Strathallan Castle - look at Google Earth - but this was set to be demolished in the last few years. Don't know if that has happened or not. Still looking for further information.
Nell
Added: A really good find, Sc00p :)
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Well done Sc00p for solving that and Nell for finding the modern photo. Doesn't that fit with another Where Am I, wasn't that the IOM as well?
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Found a booklet published in 2001 about Port St Mary (the nearest town) which describes local landmarks/places of interest.
It says that Strathallan Castle was originally built as the Clifton hotel.
It was built on the promontory which had previously been occupied by the ancient fort, the whole promontory being called Towl Foggy.
and
Bridge to St. Thomas's Isle.
Nell
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Well done Sc00p, brilliant find :D
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Well done indeed Sc00p!
So glad this one has been found.
Yorkslass
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Caz will be pleased as she thought this one wouldn't be solved.
Carol
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Very well found!!!
Kay
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Doesn't that fit with another Where Am I, wasn't that the IOM as well?
I think that was a holiday snap from MiniHistory:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=757036.0
This one is obviously not one of KGarrad's usual haunts on the Isle of Man ;)
Nell
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Brilliant. Well found, Sc00p :D
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What a brilliant find, very well done and thank you!!
My apologies if this has already been posted https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.0676883,-4.7423884,91m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
Edit I see Geoff E did post this but viewed from a different angle.
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Brilliant find, well done. Another one I can put to rest, thank you ;D ;D ;D
Is there any explanation why it was built? I am still puzzled about that.
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Good evening,
Good find ScOOp, I notice on one of the links, can't remember whose, that the walls nearest the rock have beenot replaced by fences.
But why does the bridge go to a rock with nothing on it, no lighthouse, no foghorn, no artillery, no electric cables, no gas pipes, no sewage pipes, no water pipes and no steps down to nowhere.
John915
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Just a guess-could it be an angling platform for sea fishing or a viewing platform for a blowhole?
Regards
Roger
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How exciting that it has been found. Well done.
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Amazing find Sc00p, how did you track it down?
KG is going to be kicking himself all over the I.O.M. ;D
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But why does the bridge go to a rock with nothing on it, no lighthouse, no foghorn, no artillery, no electric cables, no gas pipes, no sewage pipes, no water pipes and no steps down to nowhere.
I think KG will have to be despatched on a fact-finding mission ;D
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Amazing find Sc00p, how did you track it down?
Yes, a brilliant find, and do please tell us how you got it.
KG is going to be kicking himself all over the I.O.M. ;D
Painful - especially as there's an extra leg to kick with ;D
Meanwhile, here's another photo:
https://plus.google.com/photos/110612228410630091239/album/6133851732802444481/6133851957653014450
Looks like this chap went on a walk round that bit of the coastal path - see
https://plus.google.com/photos/+TonyArchibald/albums/6133851732802444481
Once Sc00p had got it, I went searching and came up with Kallow Point as another possible search term.
Arthur
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Google comes up with a result on Findmypast of "Strathallan Castle aka Shag Rock and The Castle,stronghold of Magnus Barefoot, 700 A.D." which appears to come from the Isle Of Man Family History Society Journal. I cannot get into FindMyPast at the moment to check if it is the right place, but if it is, there may be an answer about the bridge to the rock.
Well done Sc00p, I was ready to throw in the towel!
If the castle had a previous life as a hotel, then can I claim a prize for suggesting the 'tourism' purpose for the bridge? ;D
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Fantastic find, it's made my day
Mike
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Following arthurk's photo link there is also this one which shows nicely the profile of the rock.
https://plus.google.com/photos/110612228410630091239/album/6133851732802444481/6133852096371461842
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Amazing find Sc00p, how did you track it down?
I just went for a Google map walk round the IoM coast. I just had a hunch that if it had been on the mainland, somebody would have already recognised it.
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Amazing find Sc00p, how did you track it down?
I just went for a Google map walk round the IoM coast. I just had a hunch that if it had been on the mainland, somebody would have already recognised it.
Great stuff Sc00p, your hunch paid off.
There was me happily Google paddling around the coast of Jersey and Guernsey ::) ;D
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Although I haven't contributed, I have been closely following this thread and am thrilled that the location has been found. It has been driving me mad.
Excellent work Scoop. ;D
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KG is going to be kicking himself all over the I.O.M. ;D
Oh dear! :-[
Can I just say that, I have lived on the IoM for 23 years and I have never heard of Perwick Bay?!
I used to coach croquet at the golf club, maybe 300m away, but I have never been on the nearest road (Clifton Road) or walked along that piece of coast.
As a pennace, I will (on the next sunny day) take a trip down there, and try to capture a current view from the same viewpoint.
I'll also see what I can find at the library and museum.
P.S.
For the first 10 years, I lived in Ramsey, way up north!
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Amazing find Sc00p, how did you track it down?
I just went for a Google map walk round the IoM coast. I just had a hunch that if it had been on the mainland, somebody would have already recognised it.
BRAVO!!
Went to check my messages this morning and my inbox filled up with all these notifications. Thinking someone might have some new search ideas I went to check and blow me down it's been found!
Unbelievable! I truly thought it must have been torn down. How amazing to see the bridge and landscape has barely changed in several decades. Love seeing the modern images.
Well done ScOOp, give yourself a huge pat on the back, so well deserved.
Thanks to everyone that tore their hair out over this one! It's been quite a marathon but I hope you had fun!
Cheers
Caz
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KG is going to be kicking himself all over the I.O.M. ;D
Oh dear! :-[
Can I just say that, I have lived on the IoM for 23 years and I have never heard of Perwick Bay?!
I used to coach croquet at the golf club, maybe 300m away, but I have never been on the nearest road (Clifton Road) or walked along that piece of coast.
As a pennace, I will (on the next sunny day) take a trip down there, and try to capture a current view from the same viewpoint.
I'll also see what I can find at the library and museum.
P.S.
For the first 10 years, I lived in Ramsey, way up north!
That would be amazing if you could do some background research and get a current photo. Would be a perfect ending to this WAI.
Caz
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PS Do you want a break or should I post another?
Caz
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Well done ScOOp,
Great work & now with KG more info. may come....great result!!!
I just love looking at these old pics esp. B & W even if I haven't a clue where they are ;D
Annie
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PS Do you want a break or should I post another?
Caz
More please Caz! ;D
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Found a booklet published in 2001 about Port St Mary (the nearest town) which describes local landmarks/places of interest.
It says that Strathallan Castle was originally built as the Clifton hotel.
It was built on the promontory which had previously been occupied by the ancient fort, the whole promontory being called Towl Foggy.
and
Bridge to St. Thomas's Isle.
Nell
Strathallan Castle is now a private property, with a "Beware of the Dogs" sign on the gate?!
The walled area, leading to the bridge, is part of the property.
So, I will need to don sturdy boots, and walk along the coast and/or rocks ;D
The Raad Ny Foillan (Way of the Gull) goes this way. This is a long-distance walking route that circumnavigates the whole Isle of Man.
Cloudy and overcast today - so research, rather than photos! ;D
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Has anyone been able to view the FindMyPast document which refers to Strathallan Castle, or is it the same as the 2001 booklet?
I was looking at the modern pictures last night to see what the objects we noticed actually were, the 'telescope' does appear to be a rock, but I've not been able to find the structure on the far shore. No sign of a Morrison's truck either ;)
It was a fun exercise!
Nick
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Found a booklet published in 2001 about Port St Mary (the nearest town) which describes local landmarks/places of interest.
It says that Strathallan Castle was originally built as the Clifton hotel.
It was built on the promontory which had previously been occupied by the ancient fort, the whole promontory being called Towl Foggy.
and
Bridge to St. Thomas's Isle.
Nell
Strathallan Castle is now a private property, with a "Beware of the Dogs" sign on the gate?!
The walled area, leading to the bridge, is part of the property.
So, I will need to don sturdy boots, and walk along the coast and/or rocks ;D
The Raad Ny Foillan (Way of the Gull) goes this way. This is a long-distance walking route that circumnavigates the whole Isle of Man.
Cloudy and overcast today - so research, rather than photos! ;D
Can't believe it's almost in your backyard. Makes me absurdly happy to know it's still there.
Caz
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PS Do you want a break or should I post another?
Caz
Keep 'em coming! We don't "do" breaks!
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Keep 'em coming! We don't "do" breaks!
We've already done two more this morning ;D
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Sadly I can't post anymore until tomorrow Australia time as there is a two per day limit (not sure how it works with the time difference, but it's more like a day and half). There is still No. 234 to ponder over though to keep you going in the meantime! ;D
Caz
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Has anyone been able to view the FindMyPast document which refers to Strathallan Castle, or is it the same as the 2001 booklet?
I was looking at the modern pictures last night to see what the objects we noticed actually were, the 'telescope' does appear to be a rock, but I've not been able to find the structure on the far shore. No sign of a Morrison's truck either ;)
It was a fun exercise!
Nick
I have downloaded the 2001 booklet by J.K. Qualtrough, A Perambulation around Port St. Mary.
There's nothing much to add?!
But I did find, just a little further west, the Perwick Bay Hotel, which had it's own swimming pool.
This hotel would be towards the back right of the original photograph.
My 1935 edition of "In Praise of Manxland" (Maxwell Fraser) offers no insights.
And my 1970 reprint of "The Place-Names of the Isle of Man" (J.J. Kneen) likewise offers very little?
St Thomas' Isle doesn't get a mention.
EDIT:
I found a newspaper report of court proceedings, involving importation of coal without a license.
Approx. 16cwts of coal was removed to "Strathallan Castle", formerly known as "Point House", Port St Mary.
Another lead?
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I have in very good authority, that Point House used the rock for swimmers!
Too many rocks around their piece of beach. So they needed a suitable way to get into deeper water.
My drinking buddy grew up at Port Erin, just 2 miles away, and remembers it well
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I have in very good authority, that Point House used the rock for swimmers!
Too many rocks around their piece of beach. So they needed a suitable way to get into deeper water.
My drinking buddy grew up at Port Erin, just 2 miles away, and remembers it well
More importantly, though, did Point House have a regular delivery order with a certain well-known supermarket chain?
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Thanks for the additional information, it is all interesting.
Does anybody have an idea what this structure is - you can see it on Google just to the East of the rock with the bridge. I wondered if it was the position from where Cazza's picture was taken, or if it might be something to do with the mast like objects visible in the bottom right of the picture which we thought might be boats.
I've tried to look 'over the fence' on streetview, but it appears to be out of sight.
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First chance I get, I am going down there, and I can check! ;D
I am curious to see what's on the other side of the "diving" rock?
If you look along the coast, to the west, I think there's zig-zag path down to the beach?
Pretty sure that was where the Perwick Bay Hotel was.
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I've just been looking at some postcard pictures to get an idea where the Perwick Bay Hotel was... it looks like it was a little further round the bay away from the zig-zag path and our rock. In fact one of the postcard pictures appears to be taken from the zig-zag path looking towards the hotel. I won't put a link here as the site is a commercial one, but if you google "Rp 1956 Perwick Bay Hotel" the first result should take you to the right one.
There are also postcard views of the hotel looking back towards the rock and the bridge.
What I find interesting is there is quite a substantial swimming pool/lido near sea level in front of the hotel (some colour images on google), but on the google satellite image there is virtually no sign of this, just a possible outline of a slightly greener patch of ground compared to the surrounding. I can see why they'd want to fill the pool in for safety reasons, but there was a lot of structure to demolish if that is what they did.
I also wonder whether the hotel was completely demolished, or whether part of it is still standing as the largest building nearest the sea at the end of the road called 'Perwick Bay'. The rooflines look similar to part of the hotel building on the old postcards.
But it does look like you'll be having a very interesting walk! :)
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First chance I get, I am going down there, and I can check! ;D
I am curious to see what's on the other side of the "diving" rock?
If you look along the coast, to the west, I think there's zig-zag path down to the beach?
Pretty sure that was where the Perwick Bay Hotel was.
While you're at it, can you tell me where this? ;D Written on the back is "IOM" and the penny has dropped that this possibly means Isle of Mann ::). This a more contemporary photo than the bridge photo, probably 1930 onwards.
Caz
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Looks like the person bottom left hand corner is standing on a roof!
Caz
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A possibility
http://www.francisfrith.com/port-erin/port-erin-sunset-off-bradda-head-1903_50636
http://www.francisfrith.com/port-erin/port-erin-1893_33042
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That's definitely it Bee. Good find. 8) I wonder what that is on the hill, doesn't look like a light house when you zoom in.
More work for KG! ;D
Caz
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Milner Tower
http://www.francisfrith.com/port-erin/port-erin-milner-tower-bradda-head-1901_47244
KG will probably know more. ;)
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Aw wow, that looks amazing. I just googled it and it was built as a look out by the people that owned Milner Safes and is in the shape of a key and lock! 8) Putting this one on the bucket list.
Thanks Bee for searching for me, very nice of you! :) :)
Caz
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Lifted from the Visit Isle of Man website
"Take a trip on the Steam Railway to Port Erin and the beautiful Bradda Glen is just a few minutes walk away. Hear native bird song as you walk along the tree lined winding coastal path, moving up the headland to Milner's Tower. The monument is dedicated to William Milner in grateful acknowledgement of his many charities to the poor of Port Erin and Manx fishermen."
time for bed, goodnight
Bee
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Sounds magic!
Goodnight Bee! Thanks again!
Caz
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Milner Tower
http://www.francisfrith.com/port-erin/port-erin-milner-tower-bradda-head-1901_47244
KG will probably know more. ;)
It's a very pleasant walk out to Bradda Head from Port Erin, through Bradda Glen and along the Coronation Footpath. ;D
You can climb up the inside of the tower, to the top. Stunning views.
Milner Tower has also featured on 50p coins.
The Promenades at Port Erin are on 2 levels: Shore Road (Some houses and a cafe) at beach level, and the Promenade a little higher.
Looks like the photo was taken from The Promenade, or the grassy verge on the seaward side of the road.
The IoM Steam Railway is a lovely ride ;D
Just a shame that it's no longer free with my bus-pass?! (I pay half fare)
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Oki-doki! ;D
So I went for a walk this morning. The house/castle/hotel is boarded up and, as there was no-one to ask, I climbed the gate and took some piccies! :(
First photo, an almost copy of the original.
Second, similar, but extending to the right.
Third, a close up of the bridge itself. Right-hand handrail no longer attached at the far end!
And fourth, a view of the jump!
It is obvious when you're there, but the hotel used natural rock and some stone walls to create a couple of terraces with views south.
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They are great, KGarrad.
Such a great finale to this exciting thread.
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Thanks for the additional information, it is all interesting.
Does anybody have an idea what this structure is - you can see it on Google just to the East of the rock with the bridge. I wondered if it was the position from where Cazza's picture was taken, or if it might be something to do with the mast like objects visible in the bottom right of the picture which we thought might be boats.
I've tried to look 'over the fence' on streetview, but it appears to be out of sight.
That's a WW2 look-out!
Concrete square block, no longer has a roof.
I am convinced that the "mast like objects" were simply plants! ;D
There's no way you could get a boat anywhere near shore - unless it was a shipwreck?!
Views looking past the bridge are attached.
Finally, a view from within the terraces, looking towards the rock and bridge.
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What a lovely end to the hunt.
Glad we don't have to club together to pay your fine for trespassing KG. ;D ;D
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How fantastic! Thanks so much.
All those elaborate theories blown away ::) :-X
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Well done on the identification.
The identification brought back happy memories for me. We had a couple of family holidays in Port Erin sixty odd years ago. Have I got this correct? When we walked up to Bradda Head we went through a place we called Fairy Glen (maybe Bradda Glen?), there were red fuschias. When we got to Bradda Head there was a children's roundabout that was powered by a water wheel. You didn't have to pay anything, just opened a valve or sluice and ride away to your heart's content. It's a long time ago and I was very small but I have always remembered Port Erin with great fondness. Incidentally, I learnt to swim there in an outdoor seawater swimming pool.
Hopefully I haven't hijacked the thread too much with my memories.
Regards
Suds
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What a lovely end to the hunt.
Glad we don't have to club together to pay your fine for trespassing KG. ;D ;D
I spoke to some dog-walkers first!
As they were locals, I thought I would ask their opinion?
And police station was too far to walk to?!
Suds, a few corrections to your memory! ;D
The water-powered roundabout is in Silverdale Glen (Castletown/Ballasalla way).
https://www.visitisleofman.com/things-to-do/silverdale-glen-p1292451
Fairy Glen usually refers to Summerhill Glen, in Douglas.
You would have walked through Bradda Glen to get to Bradda Head and the Milner Tower.
Red fuschias grow wild all over the island!
Myself, I prefer the gold of gorse in flower, in spring!
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Good afternoon,
Lovely photos KG, nice to see the walls have been rebuilt. Look at post no 181 by Little Nell, the ends of both walls have been replaced by fencing so must have been a collapse. That was 2nd oct 2005.
Not sure if this link will work but this is about 20 yds from the mysterious M********s truck. http://www.rootschat.com/links/01iss/
John915
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Back again,
This is the actual "truck", a small animal shelter in the field. Can't get a better look as the camera veh didn't go any further along.
John915
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Yes, I think that is about right John. I saw the tanker last night while I was looking for a good view of the hotel - my guess is the road ahead is no longer suitable for supermarket trucks either as it appears to be perilously close to the edge of the cliff in the area where a fall/slip was identified in the original picture - in fact I'm amazed the road is still there at all.
The pictures are great KG, thank you for your efforts, it is nice to see the bridge close up and to see it is almost exactly as I'd imagined it to be.
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Google street view pictures must be a few years old?
I think these days that Ellan Vannin Fuels have replaced Total?! ;D
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Are we perhaps over thinking things?
You were certainly right there :-X
I'm still fairly sure the reason for the wall and bridge is in some way tourism related.
And you were right as well.
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Thanks JenB, just kicking myself for not thinking Isle of Man... I was doing a similar thing to Sc00p but going round Ireland instead ::)
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Very satisfying conclusion to this one - lovely photos, KG, and well done again to Sc00p.
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Fabulous photos KG! I have a vision of you peering over each shoulder then quickly scrambling over the gate ;D. You were very brave, there could have been a stroppy security guard or growly dogs in there.
You may be kicking yourself for not finding the photo location, but you have certainly redeemed yourself with your photos ;)
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This has been a great mysterious post, with a brilliant identification and lovely photos to finish with.
I have really enjoyed this and KG I felt as if I was looking at somewhere familiar and it was lovely to see it in colour.. Thanks to everybody, not forgetting Caz for posting this in the first place.
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It's always good to see the "now" photos and these are especially good to see, as I didn't think this mystery would be solved. Well done KGarrad.
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Was the island suggested at reply #38 (Tenby) on this thread, the one used in "Sherlock" last night ?
All the way through I kept thinking it looked familiar when they showed overhead shots, and there was even the bridge at one point!
I was thinking "that's Cazza's island!", but then when I looked at the thread this morning it wasn't Cazza's islands that had the fort at the end, but one we found during the long road to discovery!
Anyone else think the same? Or were we all cowering behind the sofa?!
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Sherlock was filmed using St Catherine's Rock, off Castle Beach, Tenby last summer ;D
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/lifestyle/tv/revealed-sherlocks-sherrinford-tenby-landmark-12457490
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Thanks KGArrad!
I was right then. No wonder it looked so familiar. I spent ages studying it from all angles to see if it could possibly be Cazza's mystery island/bridge or not.