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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Shropshire => England => Shropshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Canary on Friday 14 October 16 20:02 BST (UK)
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Tom Owen lived in Oswestry between 1877 (maybe slightly earlier) and 1879 and played football for Oswestry. In 1879 he played for Wales against England at the Kennington Oval, now home of Surrey CCC.
His address in Oswestry was c/o Minshall & Co, a firm of solicitors. The Minshall & Co papers for the period 1824 to the 1980s have been deposited at the Shropshire Archives in Shrewsbury. I'm looking for someone kind enough to spend half and hour looking at the solicitor's papers for 1877 to 1879 and find out more about him and where he came from. At the moment he is a substantial hole in my forthcoming Who's Who of Welsh International Soccer Players. Many thanks.
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If you look for career of "Tom" Owen there is an article where he played in England v Wales match 18 Jan 1879 and that he worked on the railways and was the father of the war poet Wilfred Owen - if that is correct then this looks like him in 1901
7 Elsa grove Birkenhead
Thomas Owen Head M 38 stationmaster Nantwich Cheshire
Harriet S wife 34 Oswestry Shropshire
Wilfred E S son 8 Oswestry
Mary M daughter 4 Oswestry
William N son 3 Shrewsbury
Colin V son 8mths Birkenhead
Jennie Radley servant 17
RG13 3395 82 25
Wilfred's full name was Wilfred Edward Salter Owen
Suz
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Thanks, Suz.
I'm afraid it is extremely doubtful that Wilfred Owen's father is the man who played for Wales in 1879. He would have been just 16 (born in 1863) and Wilfred Owen's family say they never heard within the family that Tom Owen played for Wales. And a newspaper article from 1909 suggests that Tom Owen the footballer had connections with Pwllheli. The Minshall papers could potentially throw a lot of light on the footballer, hence the request.
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I think that Suz might be correct. Ages on the census aren't 100% accurate. Information I've found about Thomas, he was born 1861 Wales died 1931 Oxfordshire. Some of that was on Wiki and some on englandfootballonline(dot)com
I've just viewed a family tree which has both Wilfred and Tom. I've also viewed the 1911 census, both are on that census. That Tom Owen was born 31 May 1862 at Nantwich, Cheshire, not Wales. His wife was born at Oswestry, as was Wilfred and the next child, Mary. Seems he played for Wales but wasn't a native of Wales.
There was also a Thomas Owen born at Oswestry. And a Thomas Owen born at Bickerton around the same time.
Here's Wilfred's info on the cwgc website.
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/336417/OWEN,%20WILFRED%20EDWARD%20SALTER
Any information from family trees could be wrong. So I suggest you check and confirm details.
Cheers,
Em
PS None of the family trees state that the father of Wilfred was a footballer. Tom only played for Wales once, hence the difficulty finding info. There were 3 lads by the same name and similar age from the Pwllheli area. No one has these lads on their family tree on Ancestry. I've checked a few census images for these lads. One was a labourer. Another a Setts maker setts quarryman. So any of them have potential.
Perhaps it might be worth contacting the archives yourself. They're familiar with their own system and may be able ascertain the answer to your question within 10 minutes of searching.
Cheers,
Em
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Thanks, Em.
Apologies for the delay in responding, various pieces of research have taken up my time. Thanks for your efforts
First, Shropshire Archives have not catalogued the Minshall papers which means that as the papers extend over such a long period a search could take some considerable time @£40 an hour. The use of a solicitor for an accommodation address might suggest he was not native an Oswestry and maybe not labouring class!
Via the Wilfred Owen Association I have learned from the family that Tom Owen never mentioned playing soccer for Wales. That’s probably why the family trees are silent on that aspect. Also, if Tom Owen had played he would have been 16 years and 7 months at the time of the match in January 1879. This would make him very young to be playing in an international match. In the Victorian era the youngest Wales player was Jack Powell who was two days short of his 18th birthday in making his debut.
There is a Tom Owen who was playing for a team called Shrewsbury Castle Blues between 1881 and 1884 and in the same position as the Tom Owen who played for Oswestry. I shall pursue this line of enquiry. If they were the same man it would mean that it could not be Wilfred Owen’s father who had left for India in the Autumn of 1880.
The ‘Pwllheli’ is intriguing and frustrating. It suggests a connection with that town either personally or perhaps through his parents.
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Hi
Many years ago I went to Shropshire Archives and looked through the said papers.
There was nothing in the papers regarding Tom Owen.
However Mildred Minshall (Lady Basten) deposited the papers before she moved to Australia.
Mildred was the daughter of William Kenrick Minshall, who was the son of Sarah Savage Kenrick (Minshall). Sarah was the sister of Samuel Llewellyn Kenrick who I'm sure you know all about
Chris Jones cjones65 (at) hotmail etc
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Many thanks, Chris. Much appreciated.
I think it's now case closed. An article in a 1909 Oswestry newspaper indicating that the Wales international Owen was a member of the Castle Blues team that won the Shropshire Cup in 1882 would rule out Wilfred’s father from being the international player The Tom Owen who played for the Shrewsbury Castle Blues may have been an accountant who died in Shrewsbury in the 1930s but it hasn't been possible to link him to the 1879 match when he would have been 28 years old.
Kenrick - a familiar name!
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Yes, Samuel Llewellyn Kenrick was the founder of the Welsh FA and played in it and several games at Left back.
He organised the first Welsh international match and is on Wiki.
There is a plaque on the wall in the Wynnstay in Ruabon where the FA was formed.
Llewellyn was a spectator at a match in Blackburn when one player missed the train- the following extract from William Pierce Owen-
'Upon closer inspection I found it was Llewelyn Kenrick of Ruabon. He was dressed in long tweed trousers, wore ordinary boots and sported a smart Oxford shirt. He played with the utmost vigour until unfortunately his knee gave way and once more Wales had only ten men on the field'
I have been looking into the Minshall family of Oswestry for some years now.
Llewellyn's sister married Thomas Edward Minshall. They were the grandparents of Merlin Minshall also on Wiki.
Chris Jones
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Forgive me, Chris. Obviously the exclamation mark after my comment on Kenrick can't convey irony.
I co-wrote the Who's Who of Welsh International Players* in which the quote from W P Owen featured. Incidentally, I met W P's son Hugh in the late 1980s, lovely chap.
* Revised and updated version out soon.
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I thought you should have come across him :) so was a little confused.
I live in Oswestry and walk past Wilfred Owen's home every day when walking the dog, I'd have heard of Thos's footballing skills if he was the same.
I did an article on the Minshall family that was in the Advertizer and included a section on Llewellyn. His family were related to the Kenrick family of Birmingham, one being the mother of Neville Chamberlain.
Chris
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Chris,
I have a copy of a book called 'Kenricks in Hardware' - it's a history of the Birmingham Kenricks. A William Kenrick married Mary Chamberlain, Joseph Chamberlain's elder sister, in 1862. Llewellyn Kenrick would have been distantly related to William (also the name of Llewellyn's father)
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Yes, I have traced the connection of the two families, Ruabon and Birmingham, on Ancestry and have it in my family tree on there.
Also got copies of the papers that were placed in Flintshire archives by William Kenrick Minshall with correspondence relating to the family tree.
I think there was a diary that Sarah Savage Kenrick kept, an old Hawking glove that belonged to the Kenricks etc.
The Minshall family and Kenrick family had been moving in the same circles for years, both families were non-conformist.
On one tree it is alleged that the Kenrick family were descendants of the Hanmers and therefore possibly a link to Owain Glyndwr?
They certainly lived in the Hanmer area.
Joseph Chamberlain married Harriet Kenrick then her sister Florence.
Chris