RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Lilygirl on Saturday 08 October 16 11:30 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I've come across a document basically showing some generations back from the named person at the top. It lists names, birthplaces, locations, marriages, deaths etc back a couple of generations ie. the persons mother and father and then their parents also.
It's been signed in 1934 and then looks like it's been witnessed and countersigned once checked in 1937. Guessing it's something to do with proving heritage during the war?
The person at the top was born in 1901 and filled out in handwriting guessing old German - it's only a photocopy so quite difficult to make out some of it.
Please advise best place to post further enquiries regarding this wasn't quite sure where to post this so apologise if it's on the wrong board.
Thanks in advance.
Lilygirl.
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Sounds like proof of Aryan ancestry.
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It is only a family tree or is there any other documentation or notes alongside it? Where did you get the document from and what does it relate to?
If you are able to scan it and post it here I'm sure you will get some help with deciphering it and working out what it's purpose was.
(Regorian's idea sounds very logical.)
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Lucky You :o Wish my German ancestor had listed his ancestry!
Wiki has an explanation of what you've got in your possession.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahnentafel
Hopefully, your list will show which town and which state of the German speaking population that your ancestors lived in.
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Thanks kinda guessed that.
It's been in the family for some time but only just been rediscovered again I suppose.
I can make out bits but do need some help from the experts!
Will be back ASAP with some of it once I can get it scanned in.
Trying to locate the original but will have to make do with a bad copy for now.
Thanks again you guys are great.
Lilygirl
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Hi again,
Here's the scan of the first page.
Looking forward to seeing what you can make of the handwriting.
:)
Thanks again.
Lilygirl.
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part 2
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If my memory cells were much younger I might have deciphered a bit more. I've had a stab at it but the handwriting is unfamiliar. Hopefully somebody else will hover into view shortly.
The surname looks vaguely like Lorenz but I wouldn't put my hat on it.
Eigene Personalien / (Own Personal Data)
Name und Vorname / (sur)name and forename -?- Franz -?-
Wohnort, Strasse und Nr. / Place, Street and Number.....-?- -?- 16
Geburtsort, Tag, Monat, Jahr /Place of Birth,Day, Month, Year 22 March/May? 1901 -?- -?- 2nd image shows "Marz" = March
--? -- (auch fruhere -?-) / -?- (also earlier -?-) -?-
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Personalien Meiner Ehrefrau / Personal Data of My Wife
Name und Vorname / (sur)name and forename / -? Charlotte
Madchenname / Maiden name. -?-
--? -- (auch fruhere -?-) / -?- (also earlier -?-) -?-
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Hi Rena, (and others)
The surname looks vaguely like Lorenz but I wouldn't put my hat on it.
Yes it sure is so you're hat is safe! lol.
It's sure hard to make some of it out isn't it?
Thanks, particularly interested in the place names and anything anyone else can add.
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Hi,
my guess was also Lorenz
Wohnort: Lagow, Neulagowerstr. 16
Place of birth: Dresden (Sophien)
Confession: evangelisch
I think it says born in Nov(ember). Sophien is probably the parish.
Ehefrau
Maiden name: Elert??
born on 18th September 1906 in Pankow near Berlin
Confession: evangelisch
All the places are around Brandenburg (Berlin)
Regards Peonie
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Charlotte's maiden name was Ebert.
I've deduced by realising that Franz's father was Franz Eduard Lorenz.
So, the second Ahnentafel reads:
Lorenz, Franz Eduard
building site foreman (Zimmerpolier)
born 30 June 1868 at Wenzendorf(?) in the district of ? (part of word missing)
died 2 March 1913 in Dresden-Tolkewiz (should read Tolkewitz)
Evangelical[-Lutheran] = Protestant
married on 7.5.1893 in Müh?g an der Elle (should perhaps be Mühlberg an der Elbe)
Specht(?), Ernstine
born 19 December 1873 in Ammelgoßwitz in the district of Torgau
Protestant
Justin
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Part 2
Personal data Father
Surname and Forename: Lorenz, Franz Eduard?
Profession: Zimmerpolier (http://www.linguee.de/deutsch-englisch/uebersetzung/zimmerpolier.html
Place of Residence: ./.
Birthdate and -place: 30 June 1868, Wengendorf near Berlin
Deathdate and -place: 2 March 1913, Dresden-Tolkewitz
Confession: evangelisch
Married: 7.5.1893? at :Mühlberg/Elbe (Brandenburg)
Mother
Maidenname and Forename: Speht? (Specht) Ernestine
Birthdate and -place: 19. December 1873?, Ammelgoßwitz (District Torgau)
Confession: evangelisch
Hope this helps, regards Peonie
Sorry Justin
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No need to apologise, Peonie. The more pairs of eyes, the merrier.
Franz Eduard's birthplace is very hard to read, but on very close scrutiny I think the questionable letter is a 'z', not a 'g'.
Moreover, Wenzendorf was a small village just outside Mühlberg an der Elbe. See here
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenzendorf_(M%C3%BChlberg) (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenzendorf_(M%C3%BChlberg))
It would help if we could see the rest of the text on that line to determine the district (Kreis).
Ernestine is the spelling that I am familiar with. However, I do not believe that the there is an 'e' before the 's'.
Justin
Footnote: Franz Eduard's death certificate is availble via ancestry.
It states that he was born in Wensendorf, Kreis Liebenwerda and that he had been married to Ernestine Wilhelmine born Specht.
His parents were Franz Eduard Lorenz (!!), cabinet maker (Tischler) and Emilie born Corncielsius, both late of Mühlberg
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VERY EXCITING!!!!!!!!!!
Here is the 2nd page I didn't want to be too greedy and post too much but really can't help it now.
Oh My Goodness thankyou so much.
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Hi,
Confession: evangelisch
Regards Peonie
Well done Peonie, specifically on the printed word of Confession. I've never ever seen that type of "C" before and although I knew "onfession", I began to doubt myself as it never occurred to me that it was indeed a "C".
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Ahnentafel 3:
Franz Eduard Lorenz
born in Mühlberg
Tischler
born in Wensendorf (Kreis Liebenwerda), 20.10.183?
died on 13 February(?) 1888 Mühlberg an der Elbe
evangelisch
Emilie Lorenz born Cornelitus
born on 7 March 1831 in Coßdorf, Kreis Liebenwerda
nicht ??? (Mühlberg an der Elbe)
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Ahnentafel 4:
Karl Heinrich Specht
born in Ammelsgoßwitz Kreis Torgau
Schneidermeister (master tailor)
born on 14 December 18?6 in Ammelgoßwitz
died 31 January 1892 (or 1872) in Dresden(?)
evangelisch
Emilie Specht born Kunath
born on 14 August 1848 in Döbeltitz bei Belgern
died on 25 December 1913 in Dresden
evangelisch