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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: moo on Friday 07 October 16 17:27 BST (UK)
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Good Evening
I have recently discovered James Campbell married Elspeth McGrigor ( later known as Elizabeth McGreggor ) on 4th June 1790. I have found 5 children from the marriage.
09.09.1791 James
01.05.1793 John (my line, he married Janet Turnball abt 1823, I have yet to confirm this date and find where, they had 2 children Elizabeth and William).
12.02.1796 Alexander
03.12.1797 Charles
06.09.1799 Jannet.
I am wondering / hoping someone may be able to provide any further information regarding this family.
Many Thanks in advance
Moo
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G’day Moo,
In addition to your 5 children to James and Elspet there are:
Robert, born 24 August, bpt. 6 September 1801;
Margaret, born 11 May 1803, bpt. 15 May 1803; and
Jean, born 27 June 1805, bpt. 14 July 1805. All in Logierait parish and all have Elspet as Elizabeth Macgrigor.
And there is also a marriage banns entry of 29 May 1790 in Dunkeld parish, indicating that one (James or Elspet) came from Logierait parish and one from Dunkeld & Dowally parish.
Now, because Jean was the third daughter and wasn’t given her mother’s name, it probably means that Janet (1799) died between the births of Margaret (1803) and Jean (1805). (Janet/Jean were interchangeable.)
Working from the Scottish naming pattern, since James’s first son was James, it would normally mean James’s father was another James. And the second daughter was Margaret, so James’s mother should be Margaret.
There is a James Campbell christened 22 Jun 1760 Dowally, Perthshire to James Campbell and Margt. Mclaughlan who looks like a good candidate.
Elspet McGregor’s parents should be John (unless he was another James) and Jean/Janet (after the first daughter) and she should be from Logierait parish.
There is an Elizabeth McGregor christened 10 January 1768 in Kirkmichael parish (Kirkmichael, Logierait, and Dunkeld & Dowally bordered one another) to James McGregor and Jannet Robertson who would be a possibility.
I can’t see any marriage between - or children to - a John Campbell and Jean Turnball anywhere. And can’t help with the families of the siblings of John (1793). Perhaps knowing where John went after Logierait may give an indication of where some of the others went as well. Migration, interstate or overseas?
Hope this helps.
Cheers, Peter
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I would say that the name "Turnball" may be Turnbull?
Annie
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Hello McGroger,
Wow thank you so much for the additional children. As far as I can tell at the moment the locations for the son John are : Birth 1793 - Logierat, Married abt 1823 unknown, Died 1874 Linlithgow, Buried St Michael's with his In -laws. His first child, Elizabeth born abt 1824 unknown where, Married 1839 to William Wright, unknown where and died 1856 Fauldhouse Whitburn. His second child was born 1827 Wilsontown, married Agnes Muir 1853 Whitburn and died 1895 Bathgate. If I could find a death for James after 1855, it may help with his parents, and eventually track him down in the 41,51 and possibly 61 census.
Hello Rosinish
I have tried every variation of spelling Turnball on SP.. but nothing, will try again, I am not totally convinced SP is working as well as it used too.
Regards
Moo
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Hello Everyone
I think I have found James and Elizabeth in Village Barr Ayrshire 1841 census James aged 70, Elizabeth aged 75, which is 137 miles away from Logierat.
I also believe that I have found granddaughter Elizabeth married surname Wright, 1841 Census gave place of birth as Scotland 1816 .... not much help there. However in the 1851 Census it gives her place of birth as Sanquhar 1814, which is almost 120 miles away from her fathers place of birth Logierat.
In 1770's would this distance be a normal thing to have happened.
Regard
Moo
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Hi, Moo.
There is a marriage 9 March, 1796 in Barr, Girvan, Ayshire between a James Campbell and Elizabeth Ramsay. This is probably more likely to be the couple in the 1841 census. If James and Elizabeth are not locatable at that time it may simply mean they were deceased by then.
(In case you’re not aware of it, in the 1841 census people’s ages were rounded down, so someone showing as 70 - i.e. 66-70 on census day - in 1841 would have been born between 1770 and early 1775 - and someone showing as 75 - i.e. 71-75 on the census day - would have been born between 1765 and early 1770. So, James of the census, 1770-1775, or 10-15 years younger than the James born in Logierait.)
If your families in Logierait were affected by the Highland Clearances, the normal result would be that they would have been forced to move to a city to try to find work and/or they might migrate, looking for a better life. In my own family (Glen Quaich, Glen Almond, Glen Gyle) until the middle of the 1800s when they moved to Glasgow - the clearances came late to Loch Tay) there had been no relocation of more than about 20 miles in 500 years. Until the clearances people rarely moved more than one or two glens.) Of course, there were exceptions.
Looking at the places you’ve given, perhaps the majority of the family fled to Edinburgh and surrounds.
Peter
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Moo,
There’s an Elisabeth Campell and William Wright marrying 16 August 1839 in Carnwath, Lanark. Other events you’re after seem a bit elusive!
Cheers,
Peter
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Thank you McGroger, I have downloaded the Banns / Marriage ;D
I did find a John and Janet in 1841 Census, John aged 48, Jean aged 58, Tomma Brack, Logierait, and then 1861 John aged 68, Jean aged 53, with Jean's mother Sarah Turnball who is a widow, John is a Clerk Distillery,Kirkgate, Linlithgow. 1871 Census John aged 77 Distillery Clerk 9 Cross, Linlithgow. I don't seem to be able to find them in 1851 :-\
John died in 1874 and Jean in 1881.
The family do seem to end up in Dunfermline eventually, but it does take them a good few years to get there, and they do seem to settle and stay. Its the early years I am struggling with.
Ever Hopeful
Moo
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Blimey - up and downs lol
Scrap the 1841 census, as I found John as a Widower in the 1851 census in Linlithgow, same job - Distillery Clerk.
This may mean that Jean/Janet Turnball was a second marriage, which could explain why I cant find any births for Elizabeth and William, back to the drawing board.
Moo
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Hello Everyone again
Still trying to track down the parents of Elizabeth and William Campbell. Since finding their father a widower in the 1851 Census, I searched for a father with the name of John Campbell, and a mother who is recorded for both of the children. I have found a possible contender being Ann Colquhoun. There was a John Campbell married to Ann in 1820 Luss, the children are both born in Luss. I am struggling to find a death for her, which would then lead me on to looking for a second marriage for John to Janet / Jean Turnball.
Regards
Moo
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Eureeeka
John Campbell & Jane Turnball 1856 Linlithgow
;D
Moo
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Hello Again
Could someone fill in the blanks please
Clerk, widower, something, ship
Spinster, something ship, could it be Merchant for both ?, would a female work on a ship ?
James Campbell, something Logierat something
Many Thanks
Moo
ps just need to find John's siblings ::)
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First column:
Clerk
Widower
no relation-
ship
Spinster
no relationship
Second column:
James Campbell
Merchant
Logierait (dec[ease]d)
Elizabeth Campbell
maiden name McGregor
Alexander Turnbull
Flesher deceased
Sarah Turnbull
maiden name Baird
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Once again Mcgroger, you have come to the rescue, can see it now, i'm slightly embarrassed.
Thank you
Regards
Moo
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I'm back to the drawing board for the parents of Elizabeth and William, the Ann Colquhoun, is not the right parent, so this rules out the births I had found. ???
Regards
Moo
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Hello there,
I also have McGrigors from Logierait in my tree, but sadly not the same dates. However, perhaps they are still related to yours.
I have Alexander McGrigor b. about 1685 in Logierait. Married Janet Reid b. about 1690, married in 1710. They had a daughter Katherine McGrigor, b. apt 29th June, 1712 in Logierait.
Might there be a connection?
Susan 42
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Hello,
Re: Reply 5, 1841 Census.
Adult ages on the 1841 Census are rounded DOWN to the next number divisible by 5.
ie. Aged 70-74 on Census day would be rounded down to age 70. Aged 75-79 on Census day would be rounded down to age 75.
Regards, Dod.
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Hello Susan
I shall keep the details on file, and you never know.
Hello Ecksdochter
Thank you, I shall keep that in mind.
Regards
Moo
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Hi Moo,
I can add a tree to James (born 28.8.1791 bpt. 9.9.1791 and died 21.1.1858 in Belem, Brazil) which is my line.
Furthermore James (born 31.1.1763 and married to Elspeth McGrigor on 4.6.1790) father was John Campbell married to Margret Irvine.
Regards
Marc
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Hi Moo,
did you notice my post?
Regards
marc
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Hello Marc
Just received notification regarding this post, pleased to hear from you. ;D
My line is John Campbell and Jean Turnball (parents James and Elizabeth ).
Would love to share information with you.
Regards Moo
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Baptisms to John Campbell & Margaret Irvine although there looks to be a later couple with same names in Kirkmichael.
Annie
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Thank you Rosinish,
I was waiting for Marc to reply as I thought the parents might have been James Campbell and a Margaret Mclauglan.
Regards
Moo
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This site may be useful?
http://www.borenich.co.uk/
Annie
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This site may be useful?
http://www.borenich.co.uk/
Annie
Thank you, I will most certainly have a look, thank you.
Moo
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Dear Moo,
I will split my answer to add the respective attachments.
1/
Starting with James Campbell and Elsphet McGrigor I found christening records which confirm their children as mentioned above by you and added by Peter McGrogor if you allow fort he mother forename to vary.
I have attached the baptism record of James, their 1st born male and my line.
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/2
I also found both marriage records in Logierait and Dunkeld and a christening records of Elspeth McGrigor which fits well by date & location, confirming that it was Elspeth being from Dunkeld.
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3/
Very interessting remarks above by Peter McGrogor and why he points to James Campbell and Margt. McIauglan as parents to James.
I always focused my research on Logierait and found John Campbell & Margret Irvine being a possibility.
See attached christening records of their children with James being 1st born male.
Actually it turned out that the baptism records show James and Jannet as twins.
To be honest, I might be wrong. Do you have more to add to the possibility of James Campbell and Margt. McIauglan?
As I mentioned I focused on Logierait and did travel to Logierait various times and searched Hilhead cemetery but without any success. I did come accross a list and map of burials. The original link disappeared but I found another one refering to the list:
https://www.pitlochryandmoulinheritagecentre.co.uk/genealogy
As James being my 5th great grandpa and his brother John being your line we are 6th grade cousin. How exciting!
I am happy to share my tree up to James if you want to email me: marc.campbell@mac.com
Regards
Marc
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Sorry one correction to above /3:
"See attached christening records of their children with James being 2nd born male.
Actually it turned out that the baptism records show James and Jannet as twins."
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Good Evening Marc,
Looking forward to sharing research with you, I have sent an email to you.
Regards
Moo