RootsChat.Com

Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Monmouthshire => Wales => Monmouthshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: hencarrai on Friday 30 September 16 11:33 BST (UK)

Title: Pontrewbela
Post by: hencarrai on Friday 30 September 16 11:33 BST (UK)
Hi,
I have a marriage in 1852 at Mynyddislwyn Parish Church.
Bride is Margaret Jones of Cefn Coch.
The groom is William Jones, residence is given as Pontrewbela.
Does anyone know of Pontrewbela please?
Title: Re: Pontrewbela
Post by: rosie17 on Friday 30 September 16 12:02 BST (UK)
Nothing coming up on google could it maybe be a name of a house  ???
Rosie
Title: Re: Pontrewbela
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Friday 30 September 16 21:42 BST (UK)
Trouble is the spelling of welsh place and house names wasn't that standardised in the 19th century

My first thought is that it is Pont Rhiw [something] or possible Pont yr heol  [something]
Title: Re: Pontrewbela
Post by: despair on Saturday 01 October 16 14:07 BST (UK)
There are a few residences starting Penrhiw.. in the area,but no ending like ..bela,and there is a "cwrt  y bela",which seems too different iniitially,even allowing for mistranscription.In looking to see if there was an English equivalent,I found that "bela" means "pine marten"-very apt as they are difficult to find!
I can find a Penrhiwbaili,but that's in Carmarthen.

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Pontrewbela
Post by: hencarrai on Thursday 13 October 16 16:10 BST (UK)
Ok, another mystery unsolved.
Thanks for trying folks,
Rob
Title: Re: Pontrewbela
Post by: Joburg on Thursday 13 October 16 17:29 BST (UK)
Hi,
   Have you purchased the marriage cert?

Regards

Joburg
Title: Re: Pontrewbela
Post by: hencarrai on Friday 21 October 16 14:52 BST (UK)
Hello Joburg,
I have the PR. Pontrewbela is very clearly written, couldn't be transcribed as anything else.
I wondered if it was near Courtybela / Cwrt y bela, but I cannot find anything.
I guess the name of a farm or house is most likely.

Rob
Title: Re: Pontrewbela
Post by: hanes teulu on Saturday 22 October 16 14:27 BST (UK)
On the 1861 Census, is your William living with his father in law at "Cefn Coch" - Margaret's address on  the marriage certificate? The Census reference is  RG09  4026  66  5    Willam's PoB is "Mynyddislwyn".
Finding him on the '51 Census is not easy given his name and father's name (John) and occupations (Colliers). Do you have William in '51?
 
As you say it's clearly "Pontrewbela" on the marriage cert - no confusion. I can only find one mention of "Pontrhiw" on Welshnewspapers online under the headline "Monmouthshire Baptist English Association" and mentions the "Rev D. Davies, Pontrhiw".

Re. the "bela" element of "Pontrhiwbela", I cannot see anything on the Glossary of Welsh Place-Name   Elements but I have been treating it as "bellaf" (further/furthest).



Title: Re: Pontrewbela
Post by: hanes teulu on Saturday 22 October 16 15:41 BST (UK)
Looking at "Cefn Coch" on the 1873-79 map, immediately to the east is "Ton-tir-bel" - I wonder if "Pontrewbela" is an an attempt by a non Welsh speaker to capture "Ton-tir-bel".
In the '41 Census it is recorded as "Tontyrbele".
Title: Re: Pontrewbela
Post by: hencarrai on Saturday 22 October 16 15:56 BST (UK)
wow, that's good thinking, I can see possibilities in that.
I was just about to reply to your earlier post to say I cannot find William on any census except 1861.
I'll look again after your suggestion.
Thanks hanes teulu.
Title: Re: Pontrewbela
Post by: hencarrai on Saturday 22 October 16 20:47 BST (UK)
Sorry hanes teulu, I forgot to answer your first post.
Yes that's them at Cefn Coch in 1861.
Rob
Title: Re: Pontrewbela
Post by: hanes teulu on Saturday 22 October 16 21:39 BST (UK)
Diolch.

I am trying to establish if the family in '61 at "Cefn Coch" is the William Jones family on the '41 Census at "Tontyrbele" - 'cept the age of William Jones in '41 (40) doesn't quite fit the age of William Jones, widower, 71 on the '61 Census (even allowing for rounding in '41).

 
Title: Re: Pontrewbela
Post by: hencarrai on Sunday 23 October 16 16:40 BST (UK)
Hi,
The family were definitely at Cefn Coch in 1841 (and earlier).
Second grandson of Wm & Mary was born at CC in 1837 (Joseph).
1841 census has Mary as Marry. HO107/1/751/6/p7.
The census says Cevan Coch, see p6.
Rob
Title: Re: Pontrewbela
Post by: despair on Sunday 23 October 16 17:25 BST (UK)
The family of William Jones at Tontyrbele in 1841 is at Cefn Coch,Rampin Row in 1851 ref HO107/2453/396/32.

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Pontrewbela
Post by: despair on Sunday 23 October 16 17:48 BST (UK)
There seem to be a lot of Cefn Coch(s) aound(with William Jones in occupation!)The family with William aged 71 in 1861 are at a Cefn Coch in 1851,which is a different family and address to the one in my previous post- this one's at ref  HO107/2453/403/46.

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Pontrewbela
Post by: hencarrai on Sunday 23 October 16 19:58 BST (UK)
Hi folks,
In 1851 the Wm Jones (jnr) at Cefn Coch on 596/32 is the right age to be Margaret's spouse, but the marriage PR says Wm's  father is John.
Rob