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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: jr9355 on Monday 26 September 16 18:21 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone,
I feel I've exhausted my abilities in researching this branch and hope that someone can shed some light on my position.
I have a John Joseph Ross (born approx 1837) who married a Catherine Langan (born approx 1835) and had 7 children. One of whom is my great, great, grandfather.
They were from Ireland and travelled from Belfast to Glasgow and lived there for some time, but they were here in Glasgow for the 1871 census and they also had a child whilst they were here.
For reasons currently unknown, the whole family except my great, great grandfather (also John Ross) moved to Springfield MA in the USA.
Their children were:
Andrew Ross
Andrew Ross 1855–1911
Catherine Ross 1860–
John Ross 1863–1893
Elizabeth Ross 1870–1949
Nellie Ross 1872–1941
James Charles Ross 1877–1935
Jimmy Ross
I am aware of the Langan family of Co. Mayo and it seems that some on Ancestry have jumped the gun and decided that they were both of County Mayo - however, having searched poor law volumes in Scotland's main library, the Mitchell Library, I discovered records for my g.g. grandfather John Ross, who states that he is from Belfast.
I don't even know where to begin to try and establish the location of their origins.
I'm totally perplexed by Griffiths valuations and the PORNI site. I'm hoping if I could find John Joseph Ross and Catherine Langan's marriage certificate, it would shed a great deal of light on where they were from.
Conflicting information is the bane of my life. For example, on US census information, one of John Joseph's children, Andrew, has listed that he was born in England. I know for a fact that he was not! I'm not sure why he's said this on the census. There's also hugely conflicting information from Ancestry trees which are uncited and state parents being born before the birth of their children etc...
I'd be grateful for any input which can help me unravel the nonsense.
Many thanks in advance.
James Ross.
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Does the birth certificate for the Scottish born child not list date and place of parents' marriage? Usually marriages take place in the brides church but that would at list give you a starting point.
Son Francis born 1867- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F79S-JX3
Daughter Elizabeth born 1870- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQW8-9Z1
Daughter Helen born 1872- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQWZ-Z43
What religion were the family? civil registration of non-Catholic marriages started in 1845 (Catholic ones from 1864) so you might be lucky to find a civil registration which should give fathers' names and occupations.
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Aghadowey, that was incredibly helpful. Thank you.
I had previously got the details from Ancestry and it just dawned on me that the birth records should have the location of marriage! That's a great help. I shall await ScotlandsPeople's eventual return... I will update when I've checked.
They were all Roman Catholic.
Thanks again,
J
Edit:
I have since found information from Catherine's birth which shows a baptism record as follows:
Name Catherine Ross
Baptism Age 0
Event Type Baptism
Birth Date 11 Jul 1860
Baptism Date 16 Jul 1860
Baptism Place St Nicholas' (Without), Dublin city, Dublin, Ireland
Residence Place 7 Arthur Lane
Parish Variants Francis St., St. Nicholas (without), Francis Street
Diocese Dublin
Parentage:
Catherine Langan
John Ross
The information for John Ross is very legible and from St Patrick's in Belfast on 9 May 1863 to John Ross and Catherine Langan.
Andrew Ross born 1855 similarly has an entry with St Patricks of Belfast from 8th Nov 1855.
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Hi, these are the only 2 I found.
Maggsie
Church Baptism Record
Name: John Ross Date of Birth:
Date of Baptism: 09-May-1863
Address: Parish/District: ST PATRICK'S, BELFAST
Gender: Male County Co. Antrim
Denomination: Roman Catholic
Father: John Ross Mother: Catherine Langan
Occupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1: Mary McGarretty Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2:
Notes:
REV A STUART œ0 2 0.
Church Baptism Record
Name: Andrew Ross Date of Birth:
Date of Baptism: 10-Nov-1855
Address: Parish/District: ST PATRICK'S, BELFAST
Gender: Male County Co. Antrim
Denomination: Roman Catholic
Father: John Ross Mother: Catherine Langan
Occupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1: Teresa Ross Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2:
Notes:
REV MARTIN œ0 2 0.
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Maggsie,
Thank you so much for your help and the confirmation it brings to me.
Can I ask where you got the information? I firstly used ancestry and then found:http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0428
Which I used to verify the information - but I couldn't accurately transcribe the sponsor details.
There are limited dates available for each parish, but it's a great resource.
Thanks again,
Jamie
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Hi, I got the records from rootsireland.ie
Can be expensive, if you join, only join for a month.
Maggsie
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St. Patrick's Belfast, 30 July 1858, Eliz Russe, parents John and Cath Langan, sponsor Eliz Russe (right page, 8th entry up from bottom):
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633210#page/127/mode/1up
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The birth record for son Francis Ross born in 1867 in Glasgow identified the parent's marriage as having taken place on 14th September 1854 in Ballina, Co. Mayo. Here is the marriage in the Kilmoremoy RC parish register (left page towards bottom, it actually took place on 13th September):
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634632#page/133/mode/1up
With both witnesses being Langans, there is a possibility that the Langan family was from the area - Griffiths Valuation shows a number of Langans in that immediate area (the local print date was 1856) and the surname was more generally known in Co. Mayo in that period:
https://www.johngrenham.com/findasurname.php?surname=langan
In contrast, the surname Ross was not common in Co. Mayo in that period:
https://www.johngrenham.com/findasurname.php?surname=ross
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Gaffy, that's absolutely top notch research and I'm indebted to your assistance. Thank you very much.
It's a real shame the address is unreadable from the side of the record, but hopefully with the names, I'll be able to find a match to the address.
Thanks again for your great work.
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... It's a real shame the address is unreadable from the side of the record, but hopefully with the names, I'll be able to find a match to the address ...
Hopefully other opinions will be forthcoming on this, but I'm not seeing an address like the other marriage entries, I'm seeing what looks like Married on Declaration followed underneath by the word Travellers, but if correct, I don't know what this means.
(For comparison / corroboration, the phrase Married on declaration also seems to appear on that same page against the marriage entry immediately below for Thos. Quinn and Anne Langan.)
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I read it as Travellers also- probably Travellers of no fixed abode who married there?
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Gaffy, that's absolutely top notch research and I'm indebted to your assistance. Thank you very much.
It's a real shame the address is unreadable from the side of the record, but hopefully with the names, I'll be able to find a match to the address.
Thanks again for your great work.
this one?
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Thank you very much for your replies.
I was referring to this part. Now that 'travellers' has been mentioned, I can't see anything other than 'travellers'!
The story of this family is that after they were married, they had a child baptised in Belfast in 1855, then another in 1860 at the same St Patricks in Belfast but one was baptised in Dublin St Nicholas (without). They were on the Glasgow 1871 census and had two children whilst they were there. The whole family then moved to Springfield, MA in the USA - apart from my g.g.granddad who stayed in Scotland. However his poor relief form showed that he spent 7 months in America, probably visiting the family.
The family went on to do quite well in America, but my g.g.grandfather didn't fair so well and died of TB at 30 in Govan poorhouse. His children were in and out of the poorhouse after his death.
Am I correct in thinking that the marriage is supposed to in the bride's hometown? It would also make sense that the Langan's are there as witnesses/sponsors.
Enc - an example from a few pages down. It think it does say travellers.
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Hi everyone,
I feel I've exhausted my abilities in researching this branch and hope that someone can shed some light on my position.
I have a John Joseph Ross (born approx 1837) who married a Catherine Langan (born approx 1835) and had 7 children. One of whom is my great, great, grandfather.
They were from Ireland and travelled from Belfast to Glasgow and lived there for some time, but they were here in Glasgow for the 1871 census and they also had a child whilst they were here.
For reasons currently unknown, the whole family except my great, great grandfather (also John Ross) moved to Springfield MA in the USA.
Their children were:
Andrew Ross
Andrew Ross 1855–1911
Catherine Ross 1860–
John Ross 1863–1893
Elizabeth Ross 1870–1949
Nellie Ross 1872–1941
James Charles Ross 1877–1935
Jimmy Ross
I am aware of the Langan family of Co. Mayo and it seems that some on Ancestry have jumped the gun and decided that they were both of County Mayo - however, having searched poor law volumes in Scotland's main library, the Mitchell Library, I discovered records for my g.g. grandfather John Ross, who states that he is from Belfast.
I don't even know where to begin to try and establish the location of their origins.
I'm totally perplexed by Griffiths valuations and the PORNI site. I'm hoping if I could find John Joseph Ross and Catherine Langan's marriage certificate, it would shed a great deal of light on where they were from.
Conflicting information is the bane of my life. For example, on US census information, one of John Joseph's children, Andrew, has listed that he was born in England. I know for a fact that he was not! I'm not sure why he's said this on the census. There's also hugely conflicting information from Ancestry trees which are uncited and state parents being born before the birth of their children etc...
I'd be grateful for any input which can help me unravel the nonsense.
Many thanks in advance.
James Ross.
Hi James, not sure if you’re still active here but Andrew Ross also appears in my tree ! Was just curious to know our relation as it could elucidate or help you and I trace our ancestry more accurately! Dm me if you’re interested.
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Welcome to RootsChat, Crystal_bowie :)
Dm me if you’re interested.
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Good luck!