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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cheshire => England => Cheshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: LynneOz on Thursday 22 September 16 00:53 BST (UK)
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Some time ago I happened across a marriage for William Jones and Mary Ardern in Wilmslow on 8 April 1831. I have no idea where/who I got this marriage from. I would appreciate any help anyone is able to give with a reference for this marriage.
This couple were Non-conformist to the back teeth. Their first child: RUTH JONES was baptised in the Wilmslow Methodist Chapel and they were living in Morley.
William was baptised in Wilmslow but his family were living in Hough whereas the Arderns were at Deans Row.
The reason I need to check is that I found another marriage for William Jones and Mary Ardern in Manchester Cathederal on 13 Feb 1848 with all the correct details of father's name etc. This marriage took place after all their children were born.
It all seems a bit cloak and dagger with two mature people who lived in Brinnington travelling up to Manchester Cathedral to marry without anyone knowing, when they may have already been married.
The only solution I can come up with is that when William died in 1863, Mary became an annuitant. If the 1831 marriage record was theirs and had been destroyed or the church had been destroyed and they couldn't get a paper copy, if there was an insurance policy they may have needed proof of marriage for Mary to be beneficiary, so they hopped off to Manchester.
Interested in any comments, but would really like a check on the 1831 record.
Cheers from Canberra Australia
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Hello,
I had a look at Wilmslow, and there is no marriage for William Jones and Mary Ardern in 1831.
So it looks like the 1848 marriage was their one-and-only marriage.
The usual reason for marriage after the children was that one of them had been married before, and the marriage had broken up. Divorce was not an option in those days.
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Where are the family in 1841 and 1851 please?
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The family are in Lacey Green, Pownall Fee (nr Wilmslow) Cheshire in 1841 and in Newbridge Lane Stockport (Portwood) in 1851 where they stayed in 1861 until William Jones died.
William Jones was the son of Thomas Jones and Esther Barlow and Mary Ardern is believed to have been the daughter of Robert Ardern who died in 1806.
William and Mary Jones had six children: Ruth, Enos, John, Harriet, Ann, Helena. Ruth died as an infant. There are parish records for Ruth, Enos and John's baptisms in the Wilmslow Wesleyan Methodist church but the three girls were all born after 1837 and the parish records do not extend that far. According to the first two baptisms for 1831 and 1834 the family were living in Morley near Wilmslow.
No prior marriage record that could be attributed to William or Mary had been found. Mary was an annuitant after William's death and I looked to see if he had a military record prior to marriage but he was born in 1807 and Ruth was born in 1831, so he was 24 when she was born. If he was not supposed to enlist until 18 this would have given him only 5 years service from 1825 to 1830. I could not find a conclusive military record for him.
Cheers
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There were 22 weddings at the Cathedral on that day.
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Some time ago I happened across a marriage for William Jones and Mary Ardern in Wilmslow on 8 April 1831. I have no idea where/who I got this marriage from. I would appreciate any help anyone is able to give with a reference for this marriage.
Lynne, I've been really hesitant to post this but in view of nothing else becoming apparent could this be the marriage that was found and somehow got a bit muddled up?
There is a marriage for a William Jones 8 April 1831 at Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George to a Mary Johnson. You can see the image of the marriage on Ancestry Manchester marriages
Apart from the date, William's name and Mary's Christian name nothing else fits.
There was a licence issued which states that they are both 21 and upwards, that William is a carter and that Mary Johnson had had her usual abode for the space of 15 days immediately preceding the issue of the licence.
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Do you have the birth certificates of the children showing Mary's maiden name to be Ardern?
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Thanks. I will check the 1831 Manchester marriage.
Yes, I do have Helena Jones' birth certificate showing her parents to be William Jones and Mary Ardern. I also have Helena's daughter, Mary Garlick, with Samuel Ardern, her uncle, in the 1861 census.
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I'm just being nosy now ::)
I can see Mary Garlick b1866 on the 1881 census with uncle Samuel Ardern.
Could you just tell me how Samuel Ardern fits into the family as Mary's uncle?
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A Helena Jones married James Garlick in 1863 Stockport
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Heather,
I can see that marriage it was at Bredbury St Mark,
But wouldn't Mary's uncles be either Jones or Garlick or have I completely lost the plot this morning. ???
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Mary Ardern was supposedly born in Wilmslow in 1806/7/8 (according to the census 1851-71). I cannot find a suitable baptism record for her. The family was rampantly Methodist.
William Jones was supposedly born in Wilmslow in 1805/6 according to 1851/61 census and death certificate. The family which fits closest to him is that of Thomas Jones (b in Wales) and Esther Barlow and the baptism record for him is for 1 Feb 1807 in Wilmslow.
William and Mary's first child was Ruth who was born 7 Sep 1831 according to Wilmslow Methodist records. She died early and does not appear in 1841. The next child was Enos, born 5 Dec 1834 and baptised in Wilmslow Methodist. Helena is the youngest child in this family. Her birth certificate gives her name as Elenor but she is recorded everywhere else as Helena.
Helena married James Garlick in Bedbury on 21 Sep 1861. James was the son of Samuel Garlick and Mary Ann Swindells. James was born in Hadfield, Derbyshire and his father was a Methodist "hedge school" teacher, lay preacher and insurance salesman. This is my main line.
On the 1848 marriage record in Manchester Cathedral, William Jones claims his father's name was Thomas and he was an engineer. This agrees with the 1841 census record for Thomas Jones and Esther Barlow. Mary claims her father was Robert Ardern and that he was a cotton carder. The only Robert Ardern I can find seems to have been the son of John Ardern (a tailor) and Mary Foden. Robert appears to have married Ann/Nancy Shewsbury in 1797. They had Abraham, Sampson and William. If this is the correct family for Mary, her father died about the time of her birth which may?? explain why I can't find a baptism for her in the Cheshire Parish records.
Since Ruth was born late in 1831, the April marriage for 1831 is feasible. William and Mary would have been about 25yrs old. Of course, one of them could have been married previously but I have not found any record which might support that. Neither have I found any record which might indicate William had been in the military. My conclusion was that maybe he had taken an insurance policy with Samuel Garlick's Methodist Insurance people and needed a certificate to prove Mary was his wife, but of course I could be wrong.
Samuel Ardern is a worry. The only one who fits the criteria was married and in another place in 1861 to Mary's supposed brother. The son of Robert Ardern, Sampson, is similarly otherwise placed. Neither can I find Samuel either in the 1851 or 1871 census records, in parish records or BMD records. Following thru the families of Robert Ardern's sons doesn't help either.
Mary Garlick, the daughter of James and Helena, married David Moses Lewis of Bodfari in 1888 in Manchester. David was a grocer. Following him backwards I can link him into the family of Robert Jones of Llansannon in Flintshire. Robert Jones' daughter Sarah married David Lewis, f/o David Moses, as his first wife. This Robert Jones had a brother Thomas. Whether this is William Jones' direct family is not conclusive, but it would not surprise me at all.
That is my sad little tale. I am currently writing up a history of this family and this marriage record for 1831 is a gap in the proceedings. I did not see it or discover it. A descendant of Enos Jones did but despite considerable urging, he cannot remember where he got it from. I just thought I would have a go at tapping into the collective wisdom of Rootschat who have been so helpful in the past. However, this quest seems to present a particularly stubborn brick wall.
Thank you for your efforts on my behalf.
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I can see the marriage of Robert Ardern and Ann/Nancy Shewsbury 19 Nov 1797 at St Bartholomew Wilmslow.
The baptism of Samson 24 April 1803 and William 20 Jan 1805 at St Bartholomew Wilmslow
Abode for Samson is Dean Row and for William it's Hough. I can't see Abraham.
Robert was buried at the same church 7 Jan 1806
Isn't it likely that Ann as a widow with 4 small children would have remarried.
There is a marriage for an Isaac Johnson and Ann Ardern at St Bartholomew 15 Nov 1812.
Isaac is single but it doesn't say whether Ann is single or a widow.
The witnesses were Rebekha Ardern and James Faulkner who I think was a parish official.
There is no saying that this is correct but if it is it could resolve the issue of Mary being Johnson on the 1831 marriage. Maybe she was brought up thinking her name was Johnson and only found out at a later date that her name was Ardern.
On the other hand it could be just be a wild theory on my part. ;D
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Wow
See, I knew the collective wisdom would turn up something! Silly me, it never occurred to me to look for another marriage for Nancy. Thank you very much.
Cheers
Lynne
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It's guesswork Lynne, treat it with care. ::)