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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: kg454 on Wednesday 14 September 16 17:27 BST (UK)

Title: Thomas Vincent to aus ~1880s?
Post by: kg454 on Wednesday 14 September 16 17:27 BST (UK)
Hello Everyone,

I'm trying to find how a Thomas Vincent (b.1863 Kensington, London - d.1921)  came to Australia.  He has to be in Australia by 1888 to get married to Virginia in March 1888 in Sydney (from his marriage cert). His birth certificate doesn't list a middle name.

His death cert says time in colonies is "about 32" years so I would think it's somewhere in the mid 1880s.

He's on the 1871 UK census with his 3 brothers and his father Edward at his grandmothers place in Kensington, London.

He may be on the 1881 UK census as a visitor to the Stevens household in Fulham but I can't be sure that's him.  If that's him, he's listed as a labourer.

His marriage cert lists him as a fireman on a steam ship but the name of it is up for interpretation.  The best guess has been Dingadee but he's not listed on the crew for it on any voyage.

Thanks in advance for any help
Title: Re: Thomas Vincent to aus ~1880s?
Post by: Neil Todd on Wednesday 14 September 16 17:50 BST (UK)
Can only see one that remotely fits.

VINCENT   Thomas   20   Earl Dalhousie   1877   Sydney

AGES on shipping list are notoriously wrong.

Neil

Modified..NO not him he was from Devon?
Title: Re: Thomas Vincent to aus ~1880s?
Post by: seaweed on Wednesday 14 September 16 19:27 BST (UK)


His marriage cert lists him as a fireman on a steam ship but the name of it is up for interpretation.  The best guess has been Dingadee but he's not listed on the crew for it on any voyage.


There was a vessel named DINGADEE official number 83783. Built in Passage West, Cork, Ireland in 1883. Registered in Sydney NSW some time the same year. May I ask where you obtained the relative Crew Agreements?
Title: Re: Thomas Vincent to aus ~1880s?
Post by: Neil Todd on Wednesday 14 September 16 20:58 BST (UK)
Some information on the Ship "DINGADEE"

http://passengersinhistory.sa.gov.au/vessel-voyages-all/924351

Neil
Title: Re: Thomas Vincent to aus ~1880s?
Post by: cupoflife on Wednesday 14 September 16 22:23 BST (UK)
There is a Deceased Estate file http://www.rootschat.com/links/01iha/
VINCENT, Thomas; North Sydney; Date of death 07/06/1921; Date duty Paid 11/10/1921; Item [19/10206]; Reel 3027   
Title: Re: Thomas Vincent to aus ~1880s?
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 14 September 16 22:55 BST (UK)
I guess you have checked the site for Mariners and Ships in Australian Waters (mostly Sydney)
http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/

But it is not loading for me at the moment  :(

Ros
Title: Re: Thomas Vincent to aus ~1880s?
Post by: majm on Wednesday 14 September 16 23:08 BST (UK)
http://marinersandships.com.au/  working fine for me.

JM
Title: Re: Thomas Vincent to aus ~1880s?
Post by: majm on Wednesday 14 September 16 23:22 BST (UK)
Is this him in about 1884ish? (Sands directories had closing date of October the year prior to allow for time to publish, so an entry was lodged by Oct 1884 for the 1885 Directory)

Sands 1885 Sydney Alphabetical Directory
Thomas VINCENT, market gardener, Rickety Street, BOTANY.

See the NSW RChat resources board :   http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.0

Including : http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.msg5267800#msg5267800

JM
Title: Re: Thomas Vincent to aus ~1880s?
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 14 September 16 23:48 BST (UK)
Hi
Do you have the birth certificates for either of these children, his first two?

Vincent  Edward 3696/1888
Thomas & Veginia (sic) ;)
At SYDNEY

VINCENT Nellie1404/1890
Thomas & Virginia
At SYDNEY

There is a requirement for the occupation of the father to be listed on the certificate  and it may help confirm or otherwise the sighting given by JM.

Sue
ADDING
In this 1887 news item, Thomas VINCENT's name appears as a gardener and "a wife" is mentioned.
I do not know enough about early Sydney geography to judge if the area is right.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13677399
Title: Re: Thomas Vincent to aus ~1880s?
Post by: Dundee on Thursday 15 September 16 01:19 BST (UK)
I can see that there was a T. VINCENT as a Trimmer on the Dingadee in 1885, but that was when she was doing the coastal run between NSW and Queensland.

http://marinersandships.com.au/1885/08/077din.htm

An earlier record for a person of the same name, again on a coastal run was in 1884:

http://marinersandships.com.au/1884/07/046kei.htm

The earliest I can see coming from the UK was this one in 1883 as an assistant steward.

http://marinersandships.com.au/1883/08/058pat.htm

The indexing of crew as well as passengers into Sydney is a unique project.  If your Thomas arrived as crew into anywhere else you would need to visit the individual record offices/archives in each State and search ship by ship.

Debra  :)

Title: Re: Thomas Vincent to aus ~1880s?
Post by: kg454 on Thursday 15 September 16 11:08 BST (UK)
There was a vessel named DINGADEE official number 83783. Built in Passage West, Cork, Ireland in 1883. Registered in Sydney NSW some time the same year. May I ask where you obtained the relative Crew Agreements?

I've been wading through the lists on marinersandships.com.au.  Trove gave me the arrival month for it in 1883 but there was no Vincent on it.  One of the 2 fireman on it was crossed out so I guess it's remotely possible he was a late replacement?
http://marinersandships.com.au/1883/09/014din.htm (http://marinersandships.com.au/1883/09/014din.htm)

Title: Re: Thomas Vincent to aus ~1880s?
Post by: kg454 on Thursday 15 September 16 11:11 BST (UK)
There is a Deceased Estate file http://www.rootschat.com/links/01iha/
VINCENT, Thomas; North Sydney; Date of death 07/06/1921; Date duty Paid 11/10/1921; Item [19/10206]; Reel 3027

Yes, that's him.  I'll see what I can find out about that.  thanks.
Title: Re: Thomas Vincent to aus ~1880s?
Post by: kg454 on Thursday 15 September 16 11:15 BST (UK)
I guess you have checked the site for Mariners and Ships in Australian Waters (mostly Sydney)
http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/

But it is not loading for me at the moment  :(

Ros

It's not loading for me either.  I'm using marinersandships.com.au.  I don't know why, but my google-fu is weak using the search on there :(.  Maybe filtering with -"st. vincent" is causing me problems.
Title: Re: Thomas Vincent to aus ~1880s?
Post by: kg454 on Thursday 15 September 16 11:31 BST (UK)
Is this him in about 1884ish? (Sands directories had closing date of October the year prior to allow for time to publish, so an entry was lodged by Oct 1884 for the 1885 Directory)

Sands 1885 Sydney Alphabetical Directory
Thomas VINCENT, market gardener, Rickety Street, BOTANY.

I'll have to ask the family if there's any rumours of being a gardener.  Reading the link that Sue found, it makes a reference to him in 1858 when Jacob Bondor leased the land. Thomas Vincent claims 20 year possession of the land so that would be too far back.
Title: Re: Thomas Vincent to aus ~1880s?
Post by: kg454 on Thursday 15 September 16 13:09 BST (UK)
The earliest I can see coming from the UK was this one in 1883 as an assistant steward.

http://marinersandships.com.au/1883/08/058pat.htm
Debra  :)

That one looks interesting - the age is close enough (he will turn 20 a couple of months later), the origin is right.  There's a whole lot in trove about that voyage so I'll have to ask around if there are any family legends.

Would there be any way to find out if he was on it when it left for Newcastle/Melbourne on the 14/15th? 
Title: Re: Thomas Vincent to aus ~1880s?
Post by: rosball on Thursday 15 September 16 22:02 BST (UK)
There is a Deceased Estate file http://www.rootschat.com/links/01iha/
VINCENT, Thomas; North Sydney; Date of death 07/06/1921; Date duty Paid 11/10/1921; Item [19/10206]; Reel 3027

There is possibly also a probate packet for him as it is in the "gap years" for the online probate index
(1891-1927).  I'll check and photograph it for you next time I am there (but you already have death cert so may not add much more)

Ros