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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: jeffery1_6 on Tuesday 13 September 16 19:10 BST (UK)
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I'm wondering if anyone has any information regarding the Gregory family please? In particular Helen or Ellen Gregory b around 1809. Father Alexander. She gave his occupation as Parish Clerk at the time of her wedding.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated.
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Where and when did she get married? Have you found her in any census? If so, where does it say she was born?
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Details of her marriage are as follows:
Marriage
3 June 1840 • Hornby, North Yorkshire
John White (batchelor, 31, footman) and Helen Gregory (spinster, 29, laundry maid) married at St Mary's Church in Hornby on 2nd or 3rd June 1840. Both were living in Hornby at the time of their marriage. His father, John is a husbandman. Her father, Alexander is a Parish clerk
This would make her year of birth as 1811.
Ellen /Helen was working as a laundry maid for the Duke of Leeds at Hornby Castle in North Yorkshire. Sources indicate that the Duke held two Scottish viscountcies 'Osborne' & 'Dunblaine'
After marrying they had to leave their employment and spent the rest of their lives in Snainton, Brompton and Scarborough in Yorkshire. In all of the census she is called Ellen. In view of her daughters name, I suspect her name is Ellen or Eleanor. She gives her place of birth as Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire throughout.
John was born in Yorkshire.
They had 3 children - Agnes, William, John and Ellen.
Any help would be greatly appreciated as I seem to have hit a brick wall.
Thank you
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Details of her marriage are as follows:
Marriage
3 June 1840 • Hornby, North Yorkshire
John White (batchelor, 31, footman) and Helen Gregory (spinster, 29, laundry maid) married at St Mary's Church in Hornby on 2nd or 3rd June 1840. Both were living in Hornby at the time of their marriage. His father, John is a husbandman. Her father, Alexander is a Parish clerk
This would make her year of birth as 1811.
If her age is accurate, it would mean that she was born between 4 June 1810 and 2/3 June 1811.
Ellen /Helen was working as a laundry maid for the Duke of Leeds at Hornby Castle in North Yorkshire. Sources indicate that the Duke held two Scottish viscountcies 'Osborne' & 'Dunblaine'
I don't think that Osborne indicates anything specifically Scottish. It is an English surname. I see that the first Duke of Leeds was Thomas Osborne, and that he was created Viscount Osborne of Dunblane in 1673. Dunblane is in the county of Perth, and not far from Stirling. Wikipedia says, "Some sources indicate that Osborne held two Scottish viscountcies — "of Osborne" and "of Dunblane", although this may be a confusion of the full form "Osborne of Dunblane".
I wondered if there might be a connection to New Leeds near Strichen, but this was created by Fraser of Strichen and there is no mention of a connection to the dukedom of Leeds.
It might be useful to look and see whether there were any other servants from Aberdeenshire in the household of the Duke. If there were, and you could pinpoint where they came from, it might indicate a ducal connection with somewhere in that county.
In all of the census she is called Ellen. In view of her daughters name, I suspect her name is Ellen or Eleanor.
I would not read anything into that. Ellen was often used as a synonym for Helen in Scotland, and Eleanor was fairly unusual.
She gives her place of birth as Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire throughout.
That's interesting, because the enumerator should just have written 'Scotland'! You are lucky to get that information.
They had 3 children - Agnes, William, John and Ellen.
So they didn't follow the Scottish naming tradition.
I take it that the marriage certificate doesn't say that Alexander Gregory was deceased? I had a look at the 1841 census at http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl but there are no obvious candidates. Specifically, there are no Alexander Gregorys in Aberdeenshire old enough to have a 29-year-old daughter. So either he died before the 1841 census, or he was living in one of the counties that have yet to be transcribed.
It would be possible, but could be time-consuming, to find out which parish Alexander Gregory was parish clerk of. However this could mean ploughing through the Kirk Session minutes for all the parishes of Aberdeenshire over a 30-year period to find a record signed by Alexander Gregory. It depends, really, how desperate you are to break down your brick wall.
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Thank you so much for your time and assistance. I really appreciate it.
Unfortunately I'm not familiar with the Scottish naming tradition...could you please advise?
The information on their marriage was obtained from IGI transcripts. Nothing is noted regarding Alexander being deceased or otherwise.
I have also found the following from IGI:
26 Oct 1800 • Dunnottar, Kincardineshire, Scotland
Alexander Gregory Sessions Officer of Dunnotar had Joseph baptised 26th Oct 1800. Witnesses John Walker in Uras and John Walker in Crawton.' Source IGI
I'm just wondering whether a Sessions Officer is similar to a Parish Clerk?
If so there seems to be an Alexander Gregory who married a Margaret Guthrie. IGI sources show them as having had banns read in Dunnottar, Kincardineshire and in Aberdeenshire:
Dunnottar, Kincardineshire, Scotland
' July 23 1796 Alexander Gregory in this Parish and Margt Guthrie in the Parish of Old Machar gave in their name for the proclamation of their Banns in order to marriage and were married.' Source: IGI - 0993311
Old Machar, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
'July 24 1796 This time in Old Machar, Margaret's parish. Source IGI - 0991141 record Salt Lake City
I have found baptisms for the following children:
Twins James and Robert - baptised 22 Sept 1797, Dunnottar
Joseph - baptised 26 Oct 1800
? Janet - baptised 2 June 1803
? George - baptised 14 Jan 1806
No Helen or Ellen though.
Your suggestion to check the census for Hornby Castle is an excellent one...I shall do that, thank you. I'll let you know if I find anything of note.
If only I lived a little closer so could work my way through the Kirk Sessions...unfortunately living in Warwickshire makes it even more challenging!
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Just adding this link to old post for background www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=405550.0
Poor you :-\ Seven years on and still searching.
Wondering whether Gregory could show as Gregor or McGregor too? Not many Gregorys in the Aberdeenshire area in general at that time or showing in the earlier censuses (thinking of possible siblings etc).
Monica :)
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Ahh yes....I've had a break from searching for a while and had quite forgotten about this previous thread. Thank you for the link and for your suggestions Monica.
I will revisit this information.
I've had a look at the servants at Leeds Castle in Hornby and they seem to be from various areas, including Scotland.
1841
Msrgaret Rae, 35, FS, (Scotland)
Euphenia Doeg, 30, FS, (Scotland)
Jenett Dunn, 30, FS, (Scotland)
Jessie Wallace, 25, FS, (Scotland)
Margaret Barker, 20, FS, (Y)
Jane Greenwood, 20, FS (Y)
Samuel Simonds, 40, MS (N)
Robert McBeth, 15, MS, (Scotland)
William Coats, 10, MS, (Y)
1851.
John Hopkins, serv, mar, 39, Housesteward, b. Suffolk, Brandon
William Sanders, serv, unm, 27, Cook, b. London
Robert Kayle, serv, unm, 30, Groom of the Chamber, b. Isle of Man
Ann Watson, unm, 30, HouseKeeper, b. Yorkshire, Green Hammerton
Dorothy Hauser, unm, 28, Lady's Maid, b. Frankfort
Charlot Campbell, unm, 41, Lady's Maid, b. Fort George
Eliza Fitspatrick, unm, 39, Lady's Maid, b. Surrey, Chertsey
Henry Castleman, mar, 33, Valet, b. Hants, Long Parish
Thomas Brunton, unm, 19, Stewards, Boy, b. Yorkshire Middletyas
Elizabeth Moiser, unm, 29, Housemaid, b. Yorkshire Middletyas
Mary Jane Shudy, unm, 26, Stillroom Maid, b. Ireland Killmallock
Mary Procter unm, 23, Housemaid, b. Yorkshire, Doncaster
Sarah Longstaff, unm, 23, House Maid, b. Yorkshire, Bedale
Arthur John Turner, unm, 24, Footman, Surrey, Richmond
Elizabeth Robinson, unm, 21, Kitchenmaid, b. Yorkshire, Leyburn
Elizabeth Burns, 14, Scullerymaid, b. Yorkshire, Sheffield
Duncan McKay, unm, 41, Piper, b. Ross-shire
Robert Robertson, unm, 40, Underbutler, b. Fifeshire, Capper
Edward Ball, unm, 30, Footman. b. London;
Catharine Ogelvie, unm, 33, Laundrymaid, b. Aberdeenshire
George Middlemiss, unm, 26, Postillion, b. Newcastle
Thomas Boynton, unm, 23, Groom, b. Yorkshire, Newbywiske
John Bennett, unm, 19, Postillion, b. London
Francis Atkinson, unm, 26, Helper, b. Yorkshire, Leyburn
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May have no significance, but Scotlandspeople have an inventory listed dated 8/4/1836 for an Alexander Gregory of Drumlithie ( in their free index to Wills and Testaments).
Isobel
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The naming tradition is
First daughter after mother's mother
Second daughter after father's mother
Third daughter after mother
First son after father's father
Second son after mother's father
Third son after father
Subsequent children after great-grandparents, uncles/aunts, other relatives, friends, minister/doctor/laird/schoolmaster/prominent citizen or their wives.
There are of course variations, for example when two grandparents, or a grandparent and a parent, have the same given name, or if an important other relative dies just before the birth of a child, and so on. But if you know that three out of the four conform to the pattern, or if you can trace the pattern through the generations, it may help to home in on the fourth grandparent's given name.
I note that you are quoting the IGI. It is important to realise that the IGI is, as its name suggests, an index. The original documents cen be viewed online at modest cost at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk and they sometimes contain other useful information, such as the witnesses to a baptism.
The usual title used by the clerk to a parish is Session Clerk, so I suppose Session(s) Officer could mean the same. So the man in Dunnottar looks quite promising.
However Dunnottar is not in Aberdeenshire, but in Kincardineshire.
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The Session Clerk took the minutes of the Session meetings and kept other parish records. At this period he was usually the schoolmaster. The Kirk Officer or beadle opened the kirk, rang the bell, and generally acted as a servant of the Session. "Session officer" sounds more like the kirk officer than the session clerk. The minutes of the kirk session usually records the appointment of these two officials as they were paid posts.
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I'm thinking of Dr Gregory's Mixture, a medicine named for an Aberdeen doctor. They were originally MacGregors who resorted to Gregory when the name was outlawed.
Skoosh.
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Thank you all for your replies, information and guidance, all of which is greatly appreciated.
May have no significance, but Scotlandspeople have an inventory listed dated 8/4/1836 for an Alexander Gregory of Drumlithie ( in their free index to Wills and Testaments).
Isobel
I checked out the will for Alexander Gregory in 1836. He was a farmer and left most of his estate to his nephew, William Gregory, Merchant in Stonehaven. No other Gregory family members mentioned.
The naming tradition is
First daughter after mother's mother
Second daughter after father's mother
Third daughter after mother
First son after father's father
Second son after mother's father
Third son after father
Subsequent children after great-grandparents, uncles/aunts, other relatives, friends, minister/doctor/laird/schoolmaster/prominent citizen or their wives.
There are of course variations, for example when two grandparents, or a grandparent and a parent, have the same given name, or if an important other relative dies just before the birth of a child, and so on. But if you know that three out of the four conform to the pattern, or if you can trace the pattern through the generations, it may help to home in on the fourth grandparent's given name.
I note that you are quoting the IGI. It is important to realise that the IGI is, as its name suggests, an index. The original documents cen be viewed online at modest cost at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk and they sometimes contain other useful information, such as the witnesses to a baptism.
The usual title used by the clerk to a parish is Session Clerk, so I suppose Session(s) Officer could mean the same. So the man in Dunnottar looks quite promising.
However Dunnottar is not in Aberdeenshire, but in Kincardineshire.
Thank you for this. I have checked out the marriage and baptisms. No other Gregory's were witnesses. There were two different men - John Walker, one of Uras and one of Crawton who witnessed the baptism of their 3 sons, twins James and Robert and also Joseph.
Alexander's wife Margaret Guthrie was from Old Machar, Aberdeen. The banns were read there as well as in Dunnottar. I was wondering whether this is the Aberdeen connection. Would Margaret maybe have returned to her family in Aberdeen to give birth or is this unlikely?
The Session Clerk took the minutes of the Session meetings and kept other parish records. At this period he was usually the schoolmaster. The Kirk Officer or beadle opened the kirk, rang the bell, and generally acted as a servant of the Session. "Session officer" sounds more like the kirk officer than the session clerk. The minutes of the kirk session usually records the appointment of these two officials as they were paid posts.
It sounds as though the parish records of Dunnottar around 1810 - 1840 would be worth further investigation. Does anyone know if these records still exist and if so, where and how could I access them?
Would it be likely that a farmer would have carried out the role of Kirk Officer? According to the will Alexander couldn't sign the will due to damage to his hand. I wonder if this suggests he may otherwise have been able to write, rather than due to illiteracy?
I'm thinking of Dr Gregory's Mixture, a medicine named for an Aberdeen doctor. They were originally MacGregors who resorted to Gregory when the name was outlawed.
Interesting! I hadn't appreciated the name MacGregor had been outlawed.m
Skoosh.
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The Dunnottar Kirk Session records are in the National Records of Scotland. Go to http://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/search.aspx and enter CH2/110 in the box labelled 'Reference'.
They have been digitised but are not so far (yet?) available online.
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Thank you so much :)