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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: mrsericnorthman on Friday 09 September 16 23:53 BST (UK)
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Hi there, I was watching who do you think you are? this morning, and it made me realise that none of my direct ancestors from my mom's side were involved in either of the wars.
So it made me wonder why they were not drafted, their age and occupation would not have stopped them. I know some people lied to get out of duty but I can't imagine each one of them doing that.
Does anyone have any ideas as to why this is?? my dad's maternal side were all in the navy, including the women, and his paternal side worked in factories helping the war effort, but my mom's side zilch.
Thank you!
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where did they live?
Were they farmers or coal miners perhaps?
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Maybe they were conscientious objectors? Or in occupations deemed necessary to continue, at home?
When I asked my dad why he didn't go to WW1, he said it was because, although he was old enough (born end 1897), he was running a fresh food business and that couldn't be closed down just so he could be sent to war.
Dawn M
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Or ill heath or bad eyesight?
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Maybe they were in units that never did anything, didn't go anywhere.
My lot appear to have probably done this - there was a unit that all trained for a big battle that never happened. They had, mostly, just a jolly time practising.
None of my lot appear to have had anything to do with WW1 or WW2 .... but they must've done something, it's just that getting at the information isn't as straight forward as they have you believe ... there's no big wonderful list that generates a result against a name of what they'd joined. You really have to get the bit between your teeth and go hard searching for every single individual (if you care) .... WW1 can be quite hard to find out about ... WW2's nigh on impossible (unless you're really interested and tenacious etc etc).
My G-gf would've been 34 when WW1 started ... I've never seen any indication whatsoever that he was "in the war" at all.
Some people were just "born lucky" as it was a lot about your local unit where you'd most likely end up - and what they did in the war... and a lot actually did nothing much.
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Well one great grandad was born in 1895 and he was an electrical fitter in the 1911 census, his dad, my gg grandad was born 1876, so again age is fine and he was a musician, i can't see that being a reason to not go.
The other side, my great grandad was born 1901, and was a painter and decorator and his dad was born 1874, he was a coal miner.
One guy is too old by the start of WWI, and another is a farmer born in 1879.
thing is maybe all these men did have bad eyesight or ill health but their brothers and sons didn't go either, i have to go into '3x removed cousins' territory to find anyone that was involved!
So strange!
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How do you know they didn't go - is it just that you can't find their war records? Don't forget that a lot of WW1 records were lost in a fire during the Blitz in the Second World War, so many that did actually fight may not be traceable.
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The 1919 voting register is a good indication of whether they served or not. They are listed at the end of the enumeration district as absent from home with their regiment etc.
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Coal mining was a protected industry, so they didn't have to go.
Maybe they were working in a different protected industry, or perhaps not fit for service due to some kind of disability, illness etc.
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Were they Merchant Seamen?
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Don't assume also that just because they didn't actually join up and go off to war that they didn't contribute to the war effort.
My dad was in a reserved occupation in WW2 and was never called up but he had to contribute and was required to join the London Fire Brigade to fight fires caused by the bombs.
Pheno
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As Pheno points out.....
even if they didn't go away to war ....
My Dad (see early reply) as well as running their fresh food business, had to be an air-raid warden in WW1 I found out all this when I found his old warden's handbook one day (when he was in his nineties!)
Dawn M
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My grandfather didn't serve because he was diagnosed with a heart murmur in his medical for WW1
He was most upset as he had been in the local volunteer rifles and was an extremely good shot.
As for his "bad health" , when he died aged 86 the consultant remarked on his strong heart.
Barbara
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My paternal grandfather was 25 when WW1 broke out, and was a bookseller. He did not enlist, which surprised me, until I learned that his father with whom he lived was a former master butcher who had been forced to retire due to incurable locomotor apraxia - a degenerative condition causing uncontrollable muscle spasms, diagnosed in 1911 and from which he died in 1918. Presumably my grandfather had responsibility for him and his own two sisters.
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My father wasn't called up because he made parts for spitfires, dad's brother had rheumatic fever as a child and there was concern over his heart so wasn't called up. My maternal uncle didn't go as he worked on the railways.
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The Ministry of Labour would draft civilian workers to areas or factories which needed them.
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Neither my father, nor his father, fought in WW2 or WW1. My father, however, was involved in the building of Spitfires. No idea why his father did not participate in WW1, but I'm glad he didn't - I lost my other grandfather who enlisted at the age of 33 and lasted a month in France, with no known grave! :'( :'( :'( :-X
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My maternal relatives didn't serve because they were all Durham coal miners, so in a reserved occupation for both wars.
My mother was a teacher, and apparently they were prevented from joining up as well, although the mother of a friend of mine, who was also a teacher, gave up her job, and enlisted by saying she was unemployed. My mother's response to that was to wish she'd thought of that!
My father had just started an engineering apprenticeship in 1939, and he was told to finish his apprenticeship before joining - and once he'd done that, it was near the end of the war, and none of the services appeared to be interested! He had also had rheumatic fever as a child, so that may have also made the services uninterested in him.
His father is a bit of a mystery. He was in the Territorials before WW1 (5th Cheshires), and left them in 1913, but doesn't appear to have ever been called up and sent overseas (no medals), although we found a cap badge for the 22nd Cheshires when we cleared our family home a couple of years ago.
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hmmm, this is all very interesting!! makes me realise how easy it must've been to get out of going, and I'm guessing my relatives all had similar situations, I'm not disappointed or anything about them not going, of course if they had i might not be here today! it's just i had the impression they were desperate for men so would take anyone, and my nan's so eager to tell me stories of her family i would've thought i'd heard something by now about any effort they may have participated in.
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do not forget that women of the ATS, WAAF, and WRNS also served overseas when required.
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Here's one for PrawnCocktail.
He was in the Territorials before WW1 (5th Cheshires), and left them in 1913,
Territorials did 4 years service + 1 on reserve. Once completed he would have been "time expired" & the rule at the time was these men couldn't be recalled even in wartime. This changed in 1916.
As has been said just because you can't find anything doesn't mean some of your menfolk didn't serve.
The 1918/19 ER is the way to find out for those over 21 at the time.
Apart from what's already been said about being deemed unfit to serve there was also a minimum height of 5' 3".
This led to near riots in recruitment centres with men ( a lot of them miners ) being turned down for this reason.
A Royal Warrant was granted & Bantam Battalions were formed for these men but too late for a lot of them.
There were no reserved occupations in WW1.
The RE took in thousands of miners as tunnellers.
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Good morning,
The OP did say that they were not in occupations that would stop them going.
John915
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It's all not black and white with occupations e.g. my father is down as a lathe operator working for Electric Switch Gear and living in Walsall in 1939 - he was working at Castle Bromwich making spitfires.
He couldn't become an ARP because of the hours he was working.
This is for WW2 but may be similar for WW1.
http://anguline.co.uk/Free/Reserved.pdf
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This is all very interesting and thanks Jim1 for your explanation as to why some were called up and some not.
My own father was in the Territorials just prior to WW2 and was called up the day before war was declared. I still have the telegram dated 2nd September, 1939. He was a Dental Mechanic to trade so was then in the Army Dental Corps, attached to the Medical Corps and wore a Red Cross Armband
He spent 3 years in Freetown, West Africa and various postings in U.K.
His brother was in Bomb Disposal and saw many things he would never speak about.
An uncle was an engineer on the railways but eventually called up and was killed in Italy in 1945.
Just the way things worked out. As said no hard and fast rules apparently.
Dorrie
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Thanks, Jim1, that explains why Grandpa wasn't called up. Surprised me, because I would have expected ex-Terrys (especially a fit 29 year old, who knew how to handle a gun) to be amongst the first ones to go.
Not that I'm moaning, I might not have been here if he had been sent early!
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I would have expected ex-Terrys (especially a fit 29 year old, who knew how to handle a gun) to be amongst the first ones to go.
That's one of the reasons why the rule changed in 1916.
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Some may have been needed on the land or were in other occupations that were exempt. My relative was exempt as a pharmacist, providing an essential service and he became a special constable during the war so served his country in that way
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My Dad's eldest brother was a Barber in Bristol but he wasn't called up for WW2 so you would have expected him to have been called up. However he was a fireman during the war helping to put out burning buildings etc during the Blitz of Bristol.
Another brother was a RC Priest and was called up to adminster the last rights during the war, especially at the D Day landings.
As my Irish Mum wasn't married before WW2 she was called up to work in spitfire factory in Wiltshire. All of her married sisters assumed she was a 'land Girl'. Mum wasn't allowed to let them know what she was doing or where she was living at the time. The town was bombed a few times but they missed the spitfire factory.
Mum's family lived in London and some of them were bombed out during the Blitz. It was quite a few years after the war before the family managed to locate one another.
My Dad was born and living in Bristol and not long started to work as an aero Engineer..he was called up too, to work in a spitfire factory..in the same place as my Mum. They married in 1947!
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My father was a pharmacist and so was exempt from service in WW2. His father was a miner and so was exempt from service in WW1. He was actually the mine manager and gave jobs to some well known footballers who therefore avoided enlistment.
By contrast my maternal grandfather joined at the start of WW1 and survived all of the war unscathed physically. A prize possession is a photograph of him taken on active service in Salonika.
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..................…...My maternal relatives didn't serve because they were all Durham coal miners, so in a reserved occupation ...………...………......……………………...……. and Women at that time were not allowed to go underground. My father's father was a reluctant coal miner …….. too tall. Enlisted and served in German East Africa. Survived the war.
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In WW1 you could appeal against the draft to a local tribunal and if you didn't accept its ruling, to a County one. Around here and probably elsewhere, the proceedings of these tribunals were summarised in the local newspaper, including names and reasons. Employers could appeal to keep irreplaceable staff. Typical reasons were working in an essential occupation, running a business, medical disability, or supporting a sick or elderly relative, all more common than conscientious objectors. Many people just had their join-up date deferred for a few weeks or months to make arrangements like finding someone to mange the business, or to get another medical opinion.
So you could try a local newspaper, but be prepared for a long trawl if it hasn't been indexed or digitised.