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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: KaylaHargrave on Sunday 28 August 16 12:24 BST (UK)

Title: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: KaylaHargrave on Sunday 28 August 16 12:24 BST (UK)
It's a long shot but I am looking for anyone who may be linked with my ancestors in Australia.

The story goes that my G-G-G Grandfather John Francis Henry Hargrave travelled from England to Australia around 1850 with his brother.
His brother then went on to New Zealand while my ancestor remained in Australia.
On John's death certificate it states his fathers name is John- though on his marriage certificate it states his fathers name was James.
His mothers name was Mary/ Matilda Dixon.

I know its a bit vague, but i thought someone may recognise the names from their own records. Thanks,
Kayla

Title: Re: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 28 August 16 12:32 BST (UK)
Hello

How old was John when he died?  That will give an approximate birth year.  If he was in England till around 1850 he should be on the 1841 census here. 

Do you know his brothers first name?
Title: Re: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: KaylaHargrave on Sunday 28 August 16 12:40 BST (UK)
There are variations depending on who you talk to.
His headstone said he was 85 when he died on 25/01/1915
His Obit on the other hand states he was 78.

And i have varying birth years from 1830-1835.
His death cert says he was born in Suffolk. However I have also seen it recorded as manchester.
( I really hate this guy)
As for his brothers name, depending on who you talk to in the family his name was either James or William.
I'm so sorry I'm not being even remotely helpful.
Title: Re: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 28 August 16 13:36 BST (UK)
That's ok.  1830-35 gives an age to look for him in 1841 as does the birthplace(s) 

Will see if any likely candidates show up.
Title: Re: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 28 August 16 13:46 BST (UK)
Familysearch has a James HARGREAVES/Mary DIXON Marriage 29 Oct 1827 Padiham, Lancashire
Title: Re: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 28 August 16 13:48 BST (UK)
There's a Hargrave family in Blackburn Lancs in 1841 with a John, James and William (10, 15 and 8) but head is Moses 45 and Alice 45 who likely are the parents. 
Title: Re: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 28 August 16 14:30 BST (UK)
The 1827 Marriage is on LancsOPC, both of Higham Chapelry


1851 Census
Chorley, Lancashire
HO107/2263/302/26
James Hargraves, 46, Head, Mar, Piece Looker, born Higham
Mary Hargraves, 40, Wife, Mar, born Barrcrofoot (Barrow Form Booth in 1861)
Susannah Hargraves 23, Daug, born Higham Stockport, Lancashire 
Elizabeth Hargraves, 10, Daug, born Stockport, Lancashire   (1861 has Stockport, Cheshire)
Joseph Hargraves, 8, Son, born Chorley
Grenn Hargraves, 4, Daug, born Chorley
George Hargraves, 1, Son, born Chorley

1861 Census Grenn is ANN
James is a Bookkeeper at Bleach Works
All the Children are still in the Cotton industry

1871 James HARGRAVES born c 1805 Higham is Widowed, Son Joseph is with him and a Neice Alice

Having trouble finding them 1841. Large gap for other Children between Susannah 1828 and Elizabeth 1841.
Title: Re: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 28 August 16 14:38 BST (UK)
1841 Census
HO107/525/5/Chorley
James Hargreaves, 35, Piece Looker
Mary Hargreaves, 30, Weaver
Sarah Hargreaves, 13, ?
JOHN Hargreaves, 9, Calico Printer Apprentice
James Hargreaves, 5
Elizabeth Hargreaves, 1

Hi Kayla,
On the Certs you have what Occps do you have for John and his Father?
Title: Re: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: KaylaHargrave on Sunday 28 August 16 23:22 BST (UK)
Hi Trish,
           On his marriage cert it says his father was an "engineer" and on his death cert it says "mechanic"
Title: Re: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 28 August 16 23:32 BST (UK)
Hi Kayla

... what about occupations for John himself ??

  ~  Lu
Title: Re: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: KaylaHargrave on Sunday 28 August 16 23:35 BST (UK)
Lu,
Death and marriage certs both list John as a blacksmith
Title: Re: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 29 August 16 00:04 BST (UK)
Hi

There are of course so many "trees" for John F.H. HARGRAVE (HARGRAVES) on the ancestry.com website (though much of the information contained has probably been shared from one tree to another ?)

* Have you been in touch with other researchers of this HARGRAVE family ??
[I note you had a previous thread re: John, on RootsChat.]

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: KaylaHargrave on Monday 29 August 16 00:11 BST (UK)
Lu,
   There are a handful of people that have JFH in there trees as being born in 1846 in Bathurst Australia.
However if his marriage and death certificates are to be believed he was born in England.
I have also looked into the John who was born in Bathurst that year and the names of the parents don't line up.

I have been in touch with other people who are researching this line and most of there trees end with JFH Hargrave.

Kayla
Title: Re: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 29 August 16 00:38 BST (UK)
Hi Kayla

I'm not suggesting that he was born in other than England.   ;)

However, from what I can see, there may have been two sets of parents named "James and Mary" HARGRAVE / HARGRAVES / HARGREAVES, who had a child named John born in Lancashire about the same time (c. 1831).   ???

*  Do you or any of the other researchers have say, a birth cert. for one of his children which may confirm the place of birth of (their father) John ?

*  There was some mention I thought ?? in your earlier thread about this John having had a previous marriage in Australia ?

*  What details about John are given on his 1869 Marriage cert. ?    *  Who were the witnesses to this marriage ?

    ~  Lu



Title: Re: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: KaylaHargrave on Monday 29 August 16 01:30 BST (UK)
Lu,
 Thats the problem I keep encountering, these people have the most generic names.
All the certificates that I have contain conflicting information.
On his sons birth certificate it states that John was born in Suffolk.
On Johns death certificate it says he was born in Suffolk as well and that he had been in Australia for 60 years. It states that his fathers name was John and his mothers name was Mary Dixon.
On his marriage certificate to Louisa Matilda Howell it says his place of birth was Manchester, his mothers name was Matilda Dixon and his fathers name was James.
Witnesses were Mary Howell (The brides sister or mother) & T. Hays


 
Title: Re: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 29 August 16 01:52 BST (UK)

On his sons birth certificate it states that John was born in Suffolk.


Was it John who registered his son's birth ?
Title: Re: HARGRAVE - circa 1850
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 29 August 16 14:37 BST (UK)
Hi Kayla, well not yours then.  ::)

If I find anything else in England I will post on here.

I will now leave to the NZ Board members who might be able to track down your elusive NZ Hargrave.

Trish :)