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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: bayonne on Tuesday 23 August 16 18:16 BST (UK)
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Hello All,
Canadian shipping list April 1908
I'm trying to work out what is written on the second to bottom line, in the fine pen. Looks to me like "to be deported", is this what you see, and is it a likely thing to have written in such a list?
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It certainly looks like 'To be deported' and seems to refer to that family, as they have been bracketed. There is also a number inscribed.
I have not seen such an entry before, but that doesn't mean such entries don't exist with other families -- have you checked whether they did return?
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Thanks for the reply Pennines, I haven't checked for a return journey as I wasn't quite sure how to go about it. I found the outward journey via a search engine, but nothing came up for a return.
Has anyone any idea why a whole family would be deported? The names of the parents are Alfred and Eloner Horsley, they were on the Lake Manitoba to Canada in April 1908.
Any suggestions?
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I agree that it says to be deported. Is it an incoming list or an outgoing list? If you look at the other entries above they have stamped comments. The fact its hand written would suggest to me that it was something a bit out of the ordinary? There was an Immigration Act brought in in 1908 and an ammendment called the continuous journey regulation that stated that immigrants had to travel directly from their home country and not via another. If that helps any?
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It's a list for the UK to Canada (Saint John, New Brunswick).
The new act of 1908 is interesting, was it in force by April?
If anyone is interested the link to the complete page of the log is
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6R37-J?i=14&wc=36TT-PTY%3A981985301%2C981989601%2C981995701%3Fcc%3D1823240&cc=1823240
Thanks for the interest.
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I am so glad you mentioned what the names were!
At the moment I can't see this Alfred on either the Canadian or English census records.
There is both a number, something like 800615 written against the family - and also an annotation something like 'see File 216736.'
I wonder if it's worth checking newspapers in Britain, maybe Alfred had committed a crime (I am getting fanciful now) -- other than that, is there an Archives in the town where they arrived which may be worth searching I wonder.
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At least it isn't boring!
He eventually (post war) ended up in Ilkestone in Derbyshire. I suppose the thing to do is to try and find out how they were sent back to the UK.
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I suspected not, but just found something that says the regulation was first challenged when the S.S. Monteagle in British Columbia arrived in late February 1908 so it would appear so, but if they were British travelling from Liverpool to Canada that can't have been the reason for them to be deported.
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There are 3 more children on the following page with the same 'to be deported' annotation.
I notice that some arrivals had 'British Bonus' inserted against their names. Possibly they needed to fulfil certain criteria to warrant this -- maybe Alfred didn't fulfil this.
It may be worth exploring what that bonus was and how they people were entitled to it. He was after all coming into Canada with a few dependents.
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Does look like it was direct UK Canada, so like you say can't see it being that.
As to the British Bonus, I thought that might refer to some form of assisted passage. It just seems a bit odd dragging a large family across the Atlantic without checking you can get in.
I think in 1911 they may be in Shipley Nottinghamshire. Perhaps they moved North so they didn't have to face friends and families questions over their swift return?
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Bit more progress, they arrived back in Liverpool on 27th May 1908. It looks as though they were just put back on the same ship.
The plot thickens! :)
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Good Find Bayonne.
The British Bonus is described here;
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/immigration/Pages/terminology-abbreviations.aspx
Now we just need to discover what 'suitable immigrant' meant.
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That British Bonus is odd, it's a wonder they didn't press gang families!
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I think the UK incoming record may not be the correct one? It appears to be for an Albert Horsley and the children have different names?
On the St John arrival manifest it appears that little Edna is written in as having died so it looks like she may have died at sea? She is not with the family in the next available census and you can check it to see if any of the children are deceased.
PB
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Back to square one :)
I'll start again tomorrow. Thanks to everyone for their help.
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British Bonus Allowed
The British Bonus was a commission paid by the Canadian government's Immigration Branch to steamship booking agents in the United Kingdom and in European countries for each suitable immigrant who purchased a ticket to sail to Canada. The immigrants themselves did not receive the bonus, although those who settled on western homesteads did receive a separate monetary bonus upon proof of settlement.
As such, the "British Bonus" was a subtle marketing tool used by the Canadian government; it served to encourage steamship booking agents to recruit desirable settlers (farmer, domestics, etc.). The laws of the time in many European countries forbade open encouragement of immigration by any foreign country.
Above extract is from http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/canada/manifest-markings.shtml
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Also found this in a list of abbreviations...
Detained: not permitted to immediately enter the country, usually for medical reasons
And this....
File (Fyle) no.: a file originally contained within the Immigration Branch's old Central Registry Files series. Unfortunately, the files relating to individual immigrants were not retained.
So the file number might have raised false hopes :( Were the comments about Edna dying at Sea on the information for incoming to Canada or incoming to the UK? I think it was usually around 9 days/ nights in the records I've come across, probably varying on conditions. Maybe if she died at sea on the way to Canada they might have had concerns about consumption or other diseases that might, or might not have caused her death? Although arguably it should have said detained instead of deported...
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Also found some information around the changes in legislation and reasoning behind them for that time period...
"Also excluded were all charity cases who had not received written authority to emigrate, either from the superintendent of immigration at Ottawa or the assistant superintendent of emigration for Canada in London. According to Knowles (1992, 80-81), this was inspired by a wave of poor British immigrants who arrived in 1907. In 1908, 70% of the deportations from Canada were British immigrants."
In the same year Oliver took steps to increase British immigration. He increased the bonus paid to British booking agents who sold tickets to British farmers, farm labourers and domestics and he opened new immigration offices in Exeter, York and Aberdeen.
There are lots of references to suitable immigrants along with a few examples or occupations, domestics are also mentioned as well as farmers. Can't find the link for the page now, but I also read that some domestic and agricultural immigrants were matched up with employers on their arrival. Maybe they didn't have written authority?
Exeter, York and Aberdeen would have been central for farming communities - were your Horsleys famers?
A bit later on, but by the 1920s the undesirable list has grown (don't know by how much) to include:
“... the tubercular, feeble-minded, imbecilic, epileptic, insane, alcoholic, female prostitute or male pimp, beggar, vagrant, dumb, blind or physically defective, anarchist, spy, treasonous, most of the adult illiterate, and the ‘charity-aided immigrants and persons who are likely to become public charges’.” (Bothwell et al. 1987, 213)
I have no idea of how you could possibly know if someone was treasonous on first impressions! ???
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Edna would have died on the trip to Canada.
PB
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Crumbs this is turning out to slightly more complex than first hoped! Looking at the list of reasons for refusal, I think I'd be turned down on at least 75%!
Shame that the records were not retained, but that would have been too easy. The child dying on board adds to the confusion. Also the huge coincidence on some one with the same name returning the following Month on the same ship.
Goes without saying, really grateful for all the assistance. :)
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Unfortunately I haven't the time to look at this for the next couple of weeks but I have a Henry ROBERTS who was endorsed "To Be Deported" on a manifest circa 1908/10 [I can't lay my hands on it just now] but he clearly got in as he's listed on the 1910 Census living with his sister Maud DERRETT (Nee ROBERTS) in Winnipeg.
I've always wondered why and if he was actually deported and need to research this further. He said he was 21 in 1910. That might not actually be true but that's another story.
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That's really interesting, so can't be even sure they were returned.
The story went around the family years after that they went to Canada stayed a year then came back as they didn't like it. But I suppose that is the sort of thing you would say even if you had been deported!
It becomes murkier by the hour :)