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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Chezza84 on Tuesday 23 August 16 03:22 BST (UK)
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Hi, i am having trouble finding the birth and death, 1841, 1851 and 1881 (etc) census of Margaret Gillan, and any information on her parents Arthur and Margaret. Also the death of her Husband Benjamin Francis b.1836
Margaret married Benjamin Francis in 1857 in Glasgow Lanarkshire. They were both living at 12 Charlotte St, Glasgow. He was a Basket Maker (he is also Blind). Margaret is 19 = b.1838. Her parents were listed as Arthur Gillan and Margaret, both deceased.
1861 census Margaret and Benjamin Francis are living in High St, Rothsay, Buteshire, Scotland. Benjamin is now a Muscian. Margaret Birth is listed as 1838 Glasgow, Lanarkshire.
1871 still in Rothsay, Buteshire but margaret birth place is listed as Bonaw, Argylshire, Scotland, birth year 1841
I have found Benajmin Francis in the 1881 listed as married, musician living at Clyde Terrace, Gorbals, Lanarkshire, but i cant find Margaret. Some of their children are living in Greenock, Refrewshire.
in 1916 when their son Hugh died, it states on his army memorial info i have found that parents are the late Benjamin Francis and Margaret Toppin Francis of Rothsay. So it could be the possibility that her mothers maiden name was toppin as i have found thruout the scottish line that they used their mothers maiden name as a middle name. but then the maiden name of her mother wasnt listed on the marraige certificate.
Hope someone can shed some answers. Thanks
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Hi Chezza,
Something doesn't seem right:
Margaret married Benjamin Francis in 1857 in Glasgow Lanarkshire. They were both living at 12 Charlotte St, Glasgow. He was a Basket Maker (he is also Blind). Margaret is 19 = b.1938. Her parents were listed as Arthur Gillan and Margaret, both deceased.
Which Margaret was born 1938?
Was that a typo for Margaret who married Benjamin? who would be born 1838?
Annie
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yes it was a typo, otherwise she wouldnt of be born yet, ill go fix it.
I have no idea when her parents (Arthur and Margaret Snr) was born
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I think you need to find the births/marriages/deaths of the children you have names for to progress to be honest?
Some info. not available early on may have been given at a later date which may give different info. at a later date & of course variants of surnames such as Gillan/Gillon or other?
I have a feeling Margaret was possibly illegitimate but probably using her said father's surname?
Just a thought?
Annie
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i have the marraige certificate for Margaret to Benjamin. It lists her parents as Arthur Gillan and Margaret. both parents are dead in 1857.
I dont understand how their childrens birth or death certificates are going to tell me more about margaret and her parents. all they will say is that margaret was born margaret gillan. could you shead some more light on what information you think i would find?
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could anyone with access to the 1881 Census please tell me if this might be my margaret gillan. and please share the details. thanks
1881 Scotland Census
Name: Margaret Fopam Or Francis
Birth: abt 1839
Residence:Lanarkshire
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There is a death for a Margaret Francis (other surname Topping) age 75 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire in 1915 which might be worth checking out. There are free credits on Scotland's People at the moment - code summer16 - which you could use.
William
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There is a death for a Margaret Francis (other surname Topping) age 75 in Dalziel, Lanarkshire in 1915 which might be worth checking out. There are free credits on Scotland's People at the moment - code summer16 - which you could use.
William
Good find Millmoor - That is indeed the lady Chezza is looking for - she is the widow of Benjamin Francis , Commercial Traveller . Her father is recorded as Arthur Topping decd. Manager Granite Quarries.
There is an Arthur Toppin on the 1851 Census at Lorne Argyllshire who could be of interest- https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VYYQ-1C2.
Looby :)
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There is an Arthur Toppin b Ireland 1816 in Glasgow in 1841 and then in 1851, 61, 71 in Ardchattan, Argyll (transcription of ages varies -1871 says born Belfast) working as a quarryman and latterly manager. 1881 surname transcribed as Topping. (wife Elizabeth )
Possible entry in confirmations calendar d 6 Feb 1891 - confirmation 12 March to Elizabeth Topping 19 Ann Street Glasgow. He died intestate.
William
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Quarrying at Bonawe was big business in the 19th century. See
http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=65548256
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FreeCEN 1851 Census transcription has a Margaret Toppin age 11 with a Gillan family in Lanarkshire ,
the wife is Margaret Gillan :-\
ev
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Thanks you for your help, i have now got the death, woohoo.
but why would she have registered the marriage and her maiden name of Gillan on the kids birth? she also has her father listed as deceased in 1857 when her marriage took place (see attachment), Arthur Gillan was listed as a Stone (something?) . So unless her mothers maiden name was Gillan, and she was illegitimate and just listed them both as Gillan, and she was estranged from her father as she listed him as dead. It just doesnt add up.
My Auntie when she asked my grandfather before he passed away always thought her maiden name was Toppin, but then all evidence i had found suggested Gillan. other than the middle name of Toppin listed on their sons memorial.
Guess we need to find out more. Maybe finding her in the census's might help, to find out a place of birth, or finding out who she was living with prior to her marraige.
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FreeCEN 1851 Census transcription has a Margaret Toppin age 11 with a Gillan family in Lanarkshire ,
the wife is Margaret Gillan :-\
ev
That has her birth as ireland, everything else is pointed to her being born in scotland
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Arthur's occupation in the marriage certificate is Stone Hewer.
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but why would she have registered the marriage and her maiden name of Gillan on the kids birth?
She might not have wanted to let on that she was illegitimate. Or maybe the Registrar misinterpreted what she told him. As for the births, did she register them in person or was it her husband? He may have believed that her maiden surname was Gillan.
she also has her father listed as deceased in 1857 when her marriage took place (see attachment)
Maybe her mother or her grandmother had told her that her father was dead to prevent awkward questions?
Arthur Gillan was listed as a Stone (something?)
Stone Hewer
So unless her mothers maiden name was Gillan, and she was illegitimate and just listed them both as Gillan, and she was estranged from her father as she listed him as dead.
That's perfectly possible, though it doesn't explain why she was listed as Toppin in 1851 and why her death certificate seems to have got it right.
Stranger things have happened!
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i dont think the above census is correct, as it has her born in ireland, or are u looking at a diff census
Her husband registered the births, but that wouldve been because she got married under that name.
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Hi -
The family headed by Larry Gillan on the 1851 Census are in Scotland on the 1841 at West Side of Millwyne , Rutherglen.
GILLON Lawrence M 30 Labourer Ireland
GILLON Margret (Mrs) F 28 Ireland
GILLON John M 9 Ireland
GILLON Peter M 5 Ireland
GILLON Cathrine F 3 Ireland
GILLON Margret F 1 Ireland
Margret (as transcribed) is recorded as born in Ireland and is called Gillon. No relationships between the household are recorded on 1841 Census , so we can only guess that the children all belong to the couple. However with Margaret listed as Toppin on the 1851 and her relationship to the householder noted as Servant ? .......I wonder if either of these people are Margaret's natural parents?
Looby :)
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There is an Arthur Toppin b Ireland 1816 in Glasgow in 1841 and then in 1851, 61, 71 in Ardchattan, Argyll (transcription of ages varies -1871 says born Belfast) working as a quarryman and latterly manager. 1881 surname transcribed as Topping. (wife Elizabeth )
Possible entry in confirmations calendar d 6 Feb 1891 - confirmation 12 March to Elizabeth Topping 19 Ann Street Glasgow. He died intestate.
William
So if Arthur was born in Ireland i wonder if he is related to the Gillon Family, maybe Margaret is his sister? and she took in child margaret after the mother died? or maybe Lawrence is the brother of the child Margaret, so child margaret was born illigatimatly?
so many questions, lol
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I think the above Gillon family is part of my family tree. I have a few Margaret's along the line.
I have a few brick walls too.