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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => Topic started by: Wearsider on Sunday 21 August 16 11:30 BST (UK)
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My 4x gr grandfather, William Messenger, married Mary Machin on 18th December 1803 at Kilham, Yorkshire.
I am looking for the parents of Mary Machin and also for her birth/baptism dates and if anyone can help I would be extremely grateful.
Wearsider.
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any clues on Mary's d.o.b. and p.o.b.
there is a tree on A******* which has William Messenger b1768 Rufford
Married mary machin 25 Jun 1794Arksey Doncaster
then I can find a marriage 18 Dec 1803 Kilham but the bride is just entered as Mary??
Suz
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according to the tree just mentioned William Messenger (1768) and mary Machin had a son William Messenger b 1798 Badsworth
Could it be him who married Mary ???
Suz
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Hi
The marriage in Arksey in 1794 was by licence. Mary, whose surname is written as Machine, is stated to be of this parish, 20 years old and married with the consent of parents. William Messenger is said to be 26 and of the parish of Rufford in Nottinghamshire
Looking at baptisms there is a baptism in Arksey 7 Nov 1773, father Jno. labourer of Bentley.
William
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In case you have skipped a generation this is the baptism of William Messenger who possibly married a mary in 1803
St Mary the Virgin Badsworth Yks
Baptism -from Parish register image
William Messenger born 12 May 1878
Baptised 8 July 1798
William Messenger son of William Messenger of Thor????? (sorry unable to read) Gentleman . William Messenger son of Joseph Messenger of Swaford? in county of Oxford by Elizabeth, daughter of
son of Mary Machin daughter of John Machin of Bentley in the Parish of Arksey, labourer by the daughter of
Suz
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As far as I can see the surname re Kilham has been written as Massenger. Baptisms in Kilham for Stephen and William 14 Nov 1806 and another Stephen 9 Dec 1813. Parents transcribed on familysearch as William Massenger and Mary.
William
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In case you have skipped a generation this is the baptism of William Messenger who possibly married a mary in 1803
St Mary the Virgin Badsworth Yks
Baptism -from Parish register image
William Messenger born 12 May 1878
Baptised 8 July 1798
William Messenger son of William Messenger of Thor????? (sorry unable to read) Gentleman . William Messenger son of Joseph Messenger of Swaford? in county of Oxford by Elizabeth, daughter of
son of Mary Machin daughter of John Machin of Bentley in the Parish of Arksey, labourer by the daughter of
There's a typo in the above - William was born 12 May 1798, so couldn't have married in 1803! And the mystery Thor??? place is Thorpe Audlin, which is in the parish of Badsworth.
I'm interested in the Machin connection in Badsworth, as I have one there too: Elisabeth Machin who in 1759 married Richard Hirst, a butcher, and lived in Badsworth from about 1761 until her death in 1806. Elisabeth (born c.1733) was daughter of Thomas Machin (also spelt Makin) of Fairburn in the parish of Ledsham. I know of 6 children born and baptised in Badsworth, plus a further 3 older ones who were buried there, but whose births I haven't found.
I wonder if there was some connection? If so, then possibly your Machin connection might give me a lead as to where else I could look, but mine might give you something to consider too.
Arthur
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I think the baptism of William Messenger in Badsworth says son of William Messenger of Thorpeaudlin gentleman's servant. (There is also a baptism for an elder brother Joseph).
The marriage of William Massenger in Kilham appears to be on the Yorkshire bts. but the page seems to have been damaged and I certainly find it impossible to read the name of his spouse.
William
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Thanks for all the postings to my query.
The information that I have for my 3x gr grandfather is :
"From the BTs for Chester le Street.
Benjamin Messenger born 23 May 1805 Lumley Park, Co Durham. 2nd son of William Messenger of Lumley Park, Whipperin, native of Swalcliffe, Oxfordshire, by his wife Mary Magin, native of Hawkshaw, Yorkshire"
From Family Search :
"William Messenger = Mary married 18th December 1803 at Kilham, York."
In the BTs for Chester le Street for their daughter and son the name is spelt as 'Maychin' and 'Magin' and rightly or wrongly I have interpreted this as 'Machin'.
The mention of Benjamin being the 2nd son now leads me to the idea that the William Messenger b 12 May 1798 and identified by Suzard is probably the correct one
I have to admit that the thought that I may have skipped a generation had not occurred to me and I obviously need to do some more work on that one.
Wearsider.
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Hi
Freereg has transcriptions of the Chester le Street bts. William and Mary seem to have had a number of children. Elizabeth baptised 19 June 1803 is their 1st daughter. They have transcribed Benjamin as 4th son and Edward baptised 26 Jul 1807 as 5th son. Mary's surname seems to have a variety of transcriptions but noting that their 3rd daughter Sarah baptised 3 May 1812 has Mary Machel recorded as her mother and a native of Bentley, I think the marriage identified in Arksey is likely to be the one you are looking for.
William
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In case you have skipped a generation this is the baptism of William Messenger who possibly married a mary in 1803
St Mary the Virgin Badsworth Yks
Baptism -from Parish register image
William Messenger born 12 May 1878
Baptised 8 July 1798
William Messenger son of William Messenger of Thor????? (sorry unable to read) Gentleman . William Messenger son of Joseph Messenger of Swaford? in county of Oxford by Elizabeth, daughter of
son of Mary Machin daughter of John Machin of Bentley in the Parish of Arksey, labourer by the daughter of
There's a typo in the above - William was born 12 May 1798, so couldn't have married in 1803! And the mystery Thor??? place is Thorpe Audlin, which is in the parish of Badsworth.
I'm interested in the Machin connection in Badsworth, as I have one there too: Elisabeth Machin who in 1759 married Richard Hirst, a butcher, and lived in Badsworth from about 1761 until her death in 1806. Elisabeth (born c.1733) was daughter of Thomas Machin (also spelt Makin) of Fairburn in the parish of Ledsham. I know of 6 children born and baptised in Badsworth, plus a further 3 older ones who were buried there, but whose births I haven't found.
I wonder if there was some connection? If so, then possibly your Machin connection might give me a lead as to where else I could look, but mine might give you something to consider too.
Arthur
Apologies for my typo !! Thank you for the correction
Suz
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I am very grateful for the reply postings on this thread and I was hoping that I had found information to allow me to work back another generation.
Having looked closely I now feel that the William Messenger who married Mary Machin on 23 Jun 1794 at Arksey, Doncaster is not in my line of Messengers. The William that I had identified was born on 14 Sep 1763 at Swalcliffe, Oxfordshire.
However identifying this William is dependant upon his son, Benjamin, being the correct Benjamin and I probably need to do some more work to confirm that this is correct. If I make a further query then this will be more appropriate on the RootsChat Durham board.
This part of my tree has been causing problems for some time now and I really thought that I may have sorted it out but it appears that I have not done so, however many thanks for all the reply postings.
Wearsider.
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Hi Wearsider
I do hope that the information I provided re the marriage in Arksey viz that William Messenger was a native of the parish of Rufford Nottinghamshire has not had any bearing on the conclusions you have drawn. This was probably where he was at the time of the marriage - the actual licence might shed more light.
As I indicated in an earlier post the Bts have the baptism of Sarah Messenger "Born 14th Jan 1812 bap 3 May William Messenger of Lumley Park, Whipperin Native of Swaycliffe Oxfordshire by his wife Mary Machel Native of Bentley Yorkshire".(Worth pointing out that they both signed by an x on the Arksey marriage).
I would also draw your attention to the 1851 census for William Messenger b 1799 Wentbridge Yorkshire - he is a groom in Chester le Street. Wentbridge is in the parish of Badsworth - the details of his baptism are the same as provided by Suzard in an earlier post.
If you do determine that your Benjamin is the one born in Chester le Street I have to say I think that the balance of probability indicates that the Arksey marriage is the correct one.
William
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Having looked closely I now feel that the William Messenger who married Mary Machin on 23 Jun 1794 at Arksey, Doncaster is not in my line of Messengers. The William that I had identified was born on 14 Sep 1763 at Swalcliffe, Oxfordshire.
I'd echo what William (Millmoor) has said: allowing for local accents and phonetic spellings, the Chester-le-Street and Badsworth baptisms are consistent with each other, and both point back to Oxfordshire for William and Arksey for Mary - and I would think that makes the Arksey marriage far more likely than the Kilham one.
I'd agree too that Rufford may have been just a residence, not William's place of birth, and also that the licence for that marriage might give valuable information.
However identifying this William is dependant upon his son, Benjamin, being the correct Benjamin and I probably need to do some more work to confirm that this is correct. If I make a further query then this will be more appropriate on the RootsChat Durham board.
If you do post a fresh query (wherever you decide to put it), please include a link back to this one - what's been written here might save a lot of duplication of effort! And a further post in this thread giving a link to any new thread might be a good idea too.
Arthur
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I have checked all my earlier information together with the reply information that I have received in these postings and I am now satisfied that the marriage of William Messenger and Mary Machin at Arksey is the correct one for my tree.
I am most grateful for all the postings that I have received on this thread.
Wearsider.
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Thanks for letting us know - glad you're making progress!