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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: chrisc on Saturday 20 August 16 09:05 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Can anyone help please.
Is there anyone due shortly to visit The National Archives at Kew?
I am keen to find out if the following document: BT 99/2519/69851 for the vessel 'Lizzie Ellen' has details relating to crew members with the surname 'Champion'. If the answer is yes, I am keen to obtain a copy of the files content i.e. Half-Yearly Agreement and Account of Voyages and Crew, the vessel voyage details, types of cargo transported, pictures of ship and/or crew members.
Hoping that someone can help.
Chris Champion
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What dates are you interested in for the ship, please?
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Hi Chris,
I only know of one rootschatter called Andy who visits Kew - war diaries are his speciality, but he may do other lookups. Obviously you need to find out if your man was on the vessel before ordering any copies of files.
Here is a thread from WW2 talk which gives further details:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01i8q/
His rootschat profile so you can contact him:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=206258
There is a member called seaweed who has extensive knowledge of seafaring (there are others as well) but I'm not sure if who may be able to help you with the answers you require.
It might be an idea to add "crew list" and the ship's name to your subject heading as this might catch the eye of anyone who is able to help.
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I have visited TNA at Kew, but it was several years ago.
An alternative to Kew may possibly be one of the Maritime Museums? Liverpool. Greenwich, Portsmouth etc.
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Hi,
Can anyone help please.
Is there anyone due shortly to visit The National Archives at Kew?
I am keen to find out if the following document: BT 99/2519/69851 for the vessel 'Lizzie Ellen' has details relating to crew members with the surname 'Champion'. If the answer is yes, I am keen to obtain a copy of the files content i.e. Half-Yearly Agreement and Account of Voyages and Crew, the vessel voyage details, types of cargo transported, pictures of ship and/or crew members.
I will reimburse photocopying and postage costs.
Hoping that someone can help.
Chris Champion
Hi there, I cant get to Kew for you, but have you seen these records (you probably have)
Cheers.
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/624729.html
http://uboat.net/wwi/ships_hit/3644.html
http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?82738
http://natlib.govt.nz/items?i%5Bcentury%5D=1800&i%5Bsubject%5D=Lizzie+Ellen+(Ship)&il%5Bcollection%5D=Natusch+family+%3A+Papers
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14044745
http://www.photoship.co.uk/jalbum%20ships/Old%20Ships%20L/slides/Lizzie%20Ellen-02.jpg
http://www.photoship.co.uk/jalbum%20ships/Old%20Ships%20L/index26.html
https://beta.worldcat.org/archivegrid/collection/data/869785183
Link above has online album of ships to view.
Hope some help! ;o)
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Many thanks for responses.
ScouseBoy; I'm particularly interested in 1907.
Ruskie; I will follow lead and see if I get lucky.
Relatedtoturnips; many thanks for links, some I have looked at, but there were a couple I had not thought to use:
http://uboat.net/wwi/ships_hit/3644.html
http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?82738
Regards
Chris
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Hi Chris,
I only know of one rootschatter called Andy who visits Kew
Othernamed rootschatters may be available...
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Hi Chris,
I only know of one rootschatter called Andy who visits Kew - war diaries are his speciality, but he may do other lookups. Obviously you need to find out if your man was on the vessel before ordering any copies of files.
Here is a thread from WW2 talk which gives further details:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01i8q/
His rootschat profile so you can contact him:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=206258
There is a member called seaweed who has extensive knowledge of seafaring (there are others as well) but I'm not sure if who may be able to help you with the answers you require.
It might be an idea to add "crew list" and the ship's name to your subject heading as this might catch the eye of anyone who is able to help.
There must be thousands more, who visit Kew of whom you do not know.
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Hi Chris,
I only know of one rootschatter called Andy who visits Kew
Othernamed rootschatters may be available...
There must be thousands more, who visit Kew of whom you do not know.
Well, it would be nice if one of them offered to help Chris with his lookup. :)
As you both misunderstood, I shall rephrase: There is only one rootschatter who I know of who offers to visit Kew to undertake specific lookup requests and copy documents. There is a cost involved. His speciality is war diaries. You would need to contact him to ask if he is willing or able to look up other documents.
I stress, that I only know of one as I have noted him mention on the boards that he does lookups at Kew. There may be others that I am not aware of.
I hope that makes it clearer.
I have noticed over the years that some, or most, requests for lookups from Kew go unanswered for whatever reason.
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If you can wait until the middle of September I will be visiting TNA and will take a look for you.
If you cannot wait. Try this guy for a quote. I have used him in the past and found him reasonable
http://www.arcre.com/
He specialises in Army War Diaries but given the correct piece numbers he will copy Merchant shipping documents. I stress copy not research.
just give him this piece reference BT 99/2519
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.UK/details/r/C2479859
tell him you are looking for the Crew Agreements for 1907 of the ship LIZZIE ELLEN official number 69851. There should be two half yearly agreements. It may well be that your man is only in one of them.
These half yearly Home Trade Crew Agreements do not contain much information. usually the name of the crew member, his/her last address, name of last ship. Regards were she voyaged to. Much depends on the person who was writing the Crew Agreement.
You may also be interested in this piece BT110/350/22
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_st=adv&_cr1=bt110%2F350%2F22&_dss=range&_ro=any
This should tell you details of ownership whilst registered in the UK. In 1907 she was owned by Samuel Coppack of Chester
Can you give us your man's full name, date and place of birth. It may be possible to find a crew agreement on line.
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Fabulous information seaweed (and a very kind offer). ;D
I knew you would be able to help.
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Hi,
Can anyone help please.
Is there anyone due shortly to visit The National Archives at Kew?
I am keen to find out if the following 1907 document(s): BT 99/2519/69851 for the vessel 'Lizzie Ellen' have details relating to crew members with the surname 'Champion'. If the answer is yes, I am keen to obtain a copy of the file(s) content i.e. Half-Yearly Agreement and Account of Voyages and Crew, the vessel voyage details, types of cargo transported, pictures of ship and/or crew members.
Hoping that someone can help.
Chris Champion
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You have already posted this request here posts merged and 'seaweed' has offered to do the look-up for you :-\
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A new request for the same look-up has been posted here today http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=754358.msg6035673#msg6035673
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Hi JenB,
Yes I know.
It was suggested to me, that I should re-submit under the subject title of '1907 Crew List lookup for the 'Lizzie Ellen' Official No. 69851'. The reason given, it was felt that whenever someone quotes 'TNA Lookup' in the subject field, it tends to be ignored.
Regards
Chris
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I think it may have been suggested that your subject heading was altered. Although you can not do this more than 24 hours after posting you can select 'report to moderator' and ask them to change it for you. ;D
There was a later posting on your earlier request which offered to do the lookup which you do not appear to have responded to. :-\
Rosie
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Hi Seaweed,
I'm in no rush, so happy to wait until September. Depending on when you go, just to make you aware I will be away on holiday between 16 Sep to 25 Sep.
Yes, would be interested in BT 110/350/22 as well.
I'm looking for the following ancestors:
Primarily Samuel Champion born Monkleigh, Devon 3 Oct 1863 - known base ports were Appledore and Bideford
but it is quite possible you may find either or both of his sons on board;
William Champion born Appledore, Devon 23 Jul 1883 - known base ports were Appledore and Bideford
John James (Chas) Champion born Westoe, South Shields 19 Sep 1888 - known base ports were Appledore, Bideford and Bridgwater
Regards
Chris
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It looks like your two threads have now become one.
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As it happens I am away on the same date flying from Heathrow. As Kew is just down the road, I will kill two birds with one stone and contact you on your/my return.
I have found a couple of on line crew agreements for 1908 on FindMyPast relating to a J Champion born 1888 on board the Brixham registered vessel WAVE. O/N 51347. He gives his previous ship as LIZZIE ELLEN and his birthplace as Appledore.
Don't know if this is one of your men.
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Hi Seaweed,
Yes I sure the J Champion in this record is one of my ancestors. The vessel I believe is the 'Waft', I have copies of the Crew Agreements for Jun 1908 and December 1908.
There are a couple of other entries which may also be him;
page 2 John Champion Born -, Died -, Event 1909
page 3 John Champion Born 1879, Died -, Event 1910
I have run out of credit, will update it and check to see if it is my ancestor.
Chris
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Sorry, my typo. The vessel is WAFT. Documents pre ordered for 16/09/2016. PM me on your return.
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There was no one with the surname CHAMPION listed as crew on both the 1907 Half yearly Crew Agreements of LIZZIE ELLEN. Why did he give LIZZIE ELLEN as his previous ship. Could there be two vessels with the same name?
Do you still want the Registration papers of LIZZIE ELLEN. To be honest there's not a lot a relevant info there.
If so just PM you EMA.
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Hi Seaweed,
Many thanks for taking time out to check the Crew Agreements for the ‘Lizzie Ellen’. Disappointed to see no CHAMPION’s listed though. I agree there is no point retaining the digital copies.
This one is proving to be a mystery to resolve. I have a copy of a Crew Agreement for the ship ‘Waft’ for the six months up to 30 June 1908. John CHAMPION is listed as having signed-on as an Ordinary Seaman on the 1 January 1908 in Ipswich, Suffolk, having previously sailed on the ‘Lizzie Ellen’, Barnstaple. His brother William was the Mate, and had remained on board the ‘Waft’ when he signed the agreement, also on the 1 January 1908 in Ipswich, Suffolk.
I found three ‘Lizzie Ellen’s’ in the Clip Project Database;
O/no.: 53432; Port of Registry: Cardigan; First Registered: 1866; In MNL: 1870-1890; Register closed: blank
O/no.: 69851; Port of Registry: Cardigan; First Registered: 1874; In MNL: 1880-1915; Register closed: 1918
O/no.: 84492; Port of Registry: Dunedin; First Registered: 1888; In MNL: 1890; Register closed: 1897
I ruled out the first ship 53432 because the record dates did not cover the period I was interested in, and ruled out 84492 because this was a ship based in New Zealand.
The Maritime History Archive lists a 1906 Crew Agreement as being held at Ceredigion Archives, Aberystwyth. I think this will be my next port of call, to see if John CHAMPION appears in one of the 1906 Agreements.
Regards
Chris