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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: JonOfWilts on Monday 15 August 16 11:36 BST (UK)
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Hi - Is there any such thing as uncertified BMD certificates in the UK instead of always applying to the GRO for a full cost certified BMD certificate? For family history purposes it is the information on the certificate that is crucial - rather than requiring certification for another purpose e.g. passport applications etc...
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Scotland is, as far as I know, the only area which does uncertified certificates, and then only for events before certain dates (100 years ago for births).
There is a push from genealogists to get this facility for the rest of us, but until then we usually have to cough up the full amount.
Remember that BMDs can be ordered from the local offices as well as the GRO. This means you often get a copy of the original registry entry, rather than a copy of the transcript sent off to the GRO by the local Registrar. We all know how often errors are made in transcriptions! The downside is that local offices are allowed to charge more than the GRO, and, local government finances being what they are, they do.
If a marriage took place in a Church of England church, then the original register may have been deposited at the relevant county archives. All registers over 100 years old are supposed to be placed thus for safe keeping, but there are always clergymen who hoard, often charging fees for access.
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Thank you andrewalston - all good points. One day we may get these life events scanned and online ... but until then I guess its the GRO or local authority route. JonOfWilts
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The Deregulation Bill (passed on the 05 February 2015) amendments 33A and 33B allow for The Births and Deaths Registration Act 1953 to be amended as follows:
1) The Minister may make regulations for the purpose of enabling the Registrar General—
(a) to carry out, on request, a search to find out whether the Registrar General’s certified copies contain a particular entry;
(b) to provide, on request, a record of information contained in an entry in the Registrar General’s certified copies, otherwise than in the form of a certified copy.”
In simple terms the above amendment lays to rest the old claim the GRO used to make that there was no specific legislation that allowed them to provide uncertified copies of register entries.
As I mentions in February last year although it is now possible for the GRO to provide uncertified copies they will not until forced to by public opinion; various Registrars General have been claiming for over 100 years to be working towards such access.
The ball is now firmly in their court it is now the sole responsibility of “the Minister” to make the relevant regulations, something which could have been done almost immediately if the will had been there.
“The Minister” is relying on the apathy of family historians who often rely on others to push for change.
If you want the regulations to be changed you need to act now.
As before the Bill was passed family historians need to write, email and phone the GRO, MPs and members of the House of Lords at every opportunity the get.
Don’t put it off until tomorrow, do it today, tomorrow and everyday until action is taken.
Nothing will be done until the above cannot access their post, emails and telephones because of the volume of mails and calls they are getting from family historians.
See-
http://anguline.co.uk/ohrn.html
Cheers
Guy
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If a marriage took place in a Church of England church, then the original register may have been deposited at the relevant county archives. All registers over 100 years old are supposed to be placed thus for safe keeping, but there are always clergymen who hoard, often charging fees for access.
A few years ago I contacted a county record office about some baptisms in the 1820's in a small rural parish and was told that the register was not at their office because it was the one which had been started in 1812 and was still being used at the church. So the 100 year rule must be a relatively new thing as that register was over 190 years old at the time.
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I think the 100 years applies to completed Parish Register books?
Obviously, if the register is still being used, then it won't have been deposited anywhere ;D
I have come across a few old registers still being used in churches on the Isle of Man.
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I would not wish the registers to pass into the hands of private contractors.
If that were to happen, the possibility could be that prices would actually increase.
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I think the 100 years applies to completed Parish Register books?
Not quite
All registers which have been closed should be deposited on loan in the appropriate Diocesan record office. Any register whose last entry is over 100 years old should be deposited in the Diocesan record office.
http://www.london.anglican.org/kb/parish-registers-and-records/
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If a marriage took place in a Church of England church, then the original register may have been deposited at the relevant county archives. All registers over 100 years old are supposed to be placed thus for safe keeping, but there are always clergymen who hoard, often charging fees for access.
A few years ago I contacted a county record office about some baptisms in the 1820's in a small rural parish and was told that the register was not at their office because it was the one which had been started in 1812 and was still being used at the church. So the 100 year rule must be a relatively new thing as that register was over 190 years old at the time.
The 100 year thing applies to when the register finished, not when it started.
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If a marriage took place in a Church of England church, then the original register may have been deposited at the relevant county archives. All registers over 100 years old are supposed to be placed thus for safe keeping, but there are always clergymen who hoard, often charging fees for access.
Whilst it is true any completed Marriage Register (other than any duplicate register book of marriages which, when filled, is to be delivered to a superintendent registrar in accordance with section 60 of the Marriage Act of 1949) may be sent to the diocesan record office there is no legislation that requires completed registers to be sent there.
Any Vicar or Incumbent may keep his/her registers in the parish Church if he/she so wishes as specified by the Parochial Registers and Records Measure 1978.
See- http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~framland/acts/prrm1978.htm
In addition in the case of many if not most Parishes the Parish Registers may be viewed and copied at will by the public and in many cases microfiche of the original parish registers may be bought by the public if they so wish.
This is different from copies of entries in Civil Births, Marriages and Deaths Registers.
The only time now (since 1977/8) the general public may view a birth, Marriage or Death register and take copies from it is when it is still “open”, i.e. still not completed and is held by a local Registrar.
As soon as it is transferred to the keeping of the Superintendent Registrar the register is closed to public view and certified copies must be purchased if an entry is wanted to be seen.
I would not wish the registers to pass into the hands of private contractors.
If that were to happen, the possibility could be that prices would actually increase.
It is unlawful for a Church of England Register or a Civil Register to pass into private hands, however a register of an unconformist church belongs to the minister of the church and could and do pass into private hands.
If it was to pass into the hands of one of the main internet genealogy sites that would benefit the family history community as they would provide online access to the register, but many private collectors (including some universities and manorial estates) do not allow access to registers in their keeping.
Cheers
Guy
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I've just paid for an image from GRONI for a marriage entry. Total cost 3GBP, and I still have a credit left.
On the subject of registers in use for a long period, I came across an entry from a church in rural Nova Scotia, dated 1968. The pre-printed part of the year had been crossed out - 18